Pressures to downsize

[timbarrett 0]

Is this how it begins?...

It was my first day checking out a new dropzone and looking to find a few new friends to continue learning with. I was just standing waiting for the next load when someone says to me, "Man, that's a big rig! What's in there?" "280", I respond. "Yeah, thats almost as big as your tandem isn't it, Joe (or whatever the TI's name was)."

No-one means anything by this idle chatter I guess. However I must confess that my very first thought afterwards was that maybe I could get away with accelerating the downsizing progession I had planned. Right now I jump witha WL of around 0.85 (i weigh in at 215 naked) and had planned in the autumn with around 100 jumps to move to a 1.0 loading after completing a canopy control course. Why not bring that forward I thought, my landings are pretty consistent and I can do (most) of the things on Billvon's checklist....besides then I would be cooler.

Is this how they get to you? How do you silence the siren call? Or should I just grow up and stop listening to the playground noise?

Tim

"Work hard, play hard and don't whinge"

[jceman 1]

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How do you silence the siren call? Or should I just grow up and stop listening to the playground noise?

(emphasis added by me)

Seems to me you did a fine job of answering your own question.

The only advice I gave my wife that I expected her to listen to and heed was "Don't let anyone, even me, pressure you into making a jump you don't want to make."

I do believe this can be expanded to include anything related to jumping, including equipment choices.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

[chutem 0]

Sounds to me like you know what is right for you. Don't let anyone push you into anything that you don't feel is for you. It's a risk/reward situation and at this point the only reward may be not hearing crap about the size of your rig. I also fly a larger canopy at a low wingloading. I still feel I have things to learn with this canopy. If the right deal presents itself I'll downsize. (I have 140 jumps on present canopy) If not I'm happy with what I have. As far as I know waiting to downsize never killed anyone. Sometimes I think it's more me being self concious about the size of my rig that makes me feel "weird" about how big my rig looks than anything else.
James
James

[nate_1979 9]

I jump under 1:1, ... there is no rush.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[popsjumper 2]

You're on the right track....stay on it and take the "peer pressure" crap for what it is...schoolyard banter.

When talking about base jumping one time, I said I didn't want to do it....the "peer pressure" came in like, "Those interested are soo way in front of you, you can't even see the tail lights anymore".
My response was, "And some of you are driving blindly into the night missing the "Bridge Out" sign."

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kelpdiver 2]

i was running about the same weight last summer. I got 'coaxed' out of my 265 because I was visiting places that didn't have rigs that size. So first jump to a tri 220, and then to a spectre 210. After that I rented 230s when I could...I found the 210 coupled with Elsinore's summer thin air and turbulence was a moderately harsh lesson. (And the next time the gear shop only had a 210, I grabbed a student rig instead)

Nothing wrong sticking with the 280 if it's readily available, though if you're going to buy a 230 or 210, would be nice to jump an intermediate step at some point.

[skybytch 259]

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I jump under 1:1, ... there is no rush.

I'm real close to 1:1 as well... like Nate said, there is no rush.

[Michele 1]

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How do you silence the siren call?

By realizing that the siren call is an actual siren that goes "whopppppp, whoppppppp, wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh", and is attached to an ambulance which is coming to take you off the landing zone to the hospital (if you're lucky).

The sky isn't going anywhere...it will be there when you have the skills to fly a smaller canopy. And you'll get to fly one more quickly if you don't have to take serious time off to recover from an accident...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[AggieDave 6]

Listen to this please:

Fuck everyone else, you jump what you feel is safe (of course the obvious exception is everyone saying "that's way too small" or "that's too high performance" at that point maybe you should think about it).

Jumping 1:1 is the way to go at your experience level. Its also the way to go for many many many jumpers at higher experience levels.

Just because some of us enjoy and prefer to jump a much higher wingloading doesn't mean that you have to. If you need proof, look at the incident reports, it will tell you very quickly and untactfully why you should jump what you jump!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[timbarrett 0]

Thks..just needed to be reminded
tim

"Work hard, play hard and don't whinge"

[DanglesOZQld 0]

When I came off student status, did quite a few jumps with the rental gear the dz had and had the money for a second hand set of gear I bought a Laser 228 and had that for about 200 jumps.

It was fun to learn with but I appreciate now having the canopy much longer than I wanted to. Have still tried to bury myself on another canopy though so like the others have said go at your own pace.

Also remember that it is not just a small canopy that is unforgiving as a large one can do just as much damage given the right(wrong) circumstances. Basically whether upsizing or downsizing respect your canopy! ;) BSBD! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[mjosparky 3]

Take your time, there is always time to die.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[sillie1111 0]

I am also hearing people tell me my wing loading is to low.

"Jumping 1:1 is the way to go at your experience level."

Are you saying that his current wingloading of .85 is to low,or just that 1:1 is a good rule of thumb? Im confused because I was always told 1:1 is to high for someone just learning. I myself load my canopy about .85:1 and that is when im wearing my full ten pounds of lead. Is there any real danger to jumping a lightly loaded canopy? (Well other then jumping in winds but my impression is that low timers shouldn't be jumping in high winds in the first place. If student are on the ground so am I.)

I seem to be seeing alot of "well i did 5 jumps on this size. Then went down and did another 5 jumps on this size" and so on. Is this the normal path to downsizing, doesnt it seem a bit fast? Its not like your going to really learn how to fly a canopy if your first 70 jumps are on all different size canopys. Also is it really a good idea to be jumping a wing loading of 1:1 by 100 jumps? even if those 100 jumps took you 2 years to accomplish? Or am i wrong?

~Shelly

[upndownshop 0]

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Take your time, there is always time to die.

Sparky

Or femur out of the sport!


The sky will always be there for you...Take your time!

[skybytch 259]

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Or am i wrong?

Your thinking is right for you. That's all that matters.

[riggerrob 558]

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Or am i wrong?

Your thinking is right for you. That's all that matters.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Advance at a pace that is comfortable for you.

5 jumps is the bare minimum to try all the front riser, rear riser, etc. exercises on a new canopy, but it takes somewhere between 20 jumps and 200 jumps to truly "learn" how a canopy flies.
Ticket-punchers may move on after 5 jumps, but serious athletes make a few hundred jumps on each canopy before trading.

[AggieDave 6]

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just that 1:1 is a good rule of thumb?

1:1 is just a good rule of thumb.

We (my DZ) tends to put students out around .75:1 for the beginning of their progression then move them (as they're ready) towards 1:1 by the end of their progression.

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Is there any real danger to jumping a lightly loaded canopy? (Well other then jumping in winds but my impression is that low timers shouldn't be jumping in high winds in the first place. If student are on the ground so am I.)

It is possible to be so light that you won't have any sort of flare (a little, not much), but that's an extreme case...95lbs chick under a Manta 288 for example.

Other then that, then winds are the issue, also that you could get "stuck" due to thermals at certain DZs certain times of the year, but even that isn't too big of a deal if you realize that.

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I seem to be seeing alot of "well i did 5 jumps on this size. Then went down and did another 5 jumps on this size" and so on. Is this the normal path to downsizing, doesnt it seem a bit fast?

In my opinion it comes down to the situation. I'm going to use my DZ as an example. We may put a transition student (2 tandems transitioned to AFF) out on our Navigator 280 or 300 for the first couple of jumps, then possibly move them down to a 260 or 240. Depending on their weight and ability we may step them down to a 200 by the time they get their A-license. Those movements aren't very large, although sq ft wise they are, wingloading wise they're not too drastic. We're moving our students down to around a 1:1 wingloading. Why? Basically since the gear they buy after getting a license is usually in the 1:1 range and we want to work with them before they just buy gear. That make sense? After that, I personally like to see a few hundred jumps between downsizing after that.

The first canopy I bought was a Heatwave 170 (200-ish jumps), I put about 400 jumps on that before buying a XF2 149. I've now bout about 500 jumps on that and am now looking to downsize again to the next step for the next 400-ish jumps. Of course my statement of getting a canopy for the next 400 jumps is just a guess. It might take me 1000 jumps to get to the point where I feel proficent enough to downsize again.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,405]

>Are you saying that his current wingloading of .85 is to low . . .

If a jumper is landing safely under a given canopy, if they can make it back to the landing area, if it is behaved in turbulence, if it is opening reliably - then the loading isn't too low. There's no compelling reason to downsize other than to fix a problem, like lack of penetration or poor openings (which you might see under a .45 loading.)

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I
"Jumping 1:1 is the way to go at your experience level."

Are you saying that his current wingloading of .85 is to low,or just that 1:1 is a good rule of thumb?

1:1 wingloading is the maximum wingloading for that experience level. Less is just fine. IMHO. Too many people confuse "maximum" with "recommended" or "required."

[ianmdrennan 2]

Michelle,

You know I know the people up there and if someone is telling you to downsize cause you're not loaded enough, ignore them. Period.

There is no need to downsize rapidly. Learn what you can on your current canopy. Until you find that you are unable to accomplish what you'd like to on your current wing AND can safely move to the next size you should stick with what you have.

As always, you have my email, let me know if you need anything.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[sillie1111 0]

Ian,

No one is pushing me to downsize, they just tell me i could and would be fine. Which im sure I would be fine however i love my canopy and am in no rush to go any smaller for a while. Just wanted him to clarify what he meant by 1:1 being a good wingloading, because as you know most of the people here at jumptown are very conservative and i always thougt 1:1 was way to high for someone new, but as im learning more that it is not quit as extreme or dangerous as maybe i thought it was. Still saying it is not for me yet, but not as bad as i may have thought it was.

~Shelly

[rhino 0]

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Is this how it begins?...

You have a good plan.. Follow it...

[HSPScott 0]

Good points Dave. Learn your canopy. Just because you have a light wing loading doesn't mean it's time to downsize. I put about 1200 on my xfire 114 wing laoded @ 2 before downsizing. Plus 500+ on a stilleto 135 before going to the xfire. Wingloading is import on the way a canopy flies as well as how drastic the movements become. Just remember, as the wing loading increases, so does speed, which gives you less time for reaction. Enjoy your canopy, and laugh with the guys kidding you about it.