jumping with cell phones

[DA50 0]

I had my first malfunction and reserve ride this week end. All went well and nothing exciting to report. I followed my free-bag and main into a desolate farm pasture and had to walk a distance to the farm house so I could use the phone and call the DZ. This got me to thinking and I want to put it up for discussion. Does anybody out there jump with a cell phone on them? What would happen if you had no idea where you were, could 911 locate you via GPS or something? I don’t jump with my wallet so my biggest problem during this whole event was trying to contact the DZ when I had no business card or contacts list with me. Any suggestion?

[Newbie 0]

Congrats on handling yourself and good EPs.

To answer your q, i always jump with my phone for the reasons you have mentioned - if i'm off, injured, i can call someone/emergency services. I might not know where i am, but the police here can triangulate you on the signal and get a good idea, if things are that serious.

It also means if i'm landing off, and in the unlikely event the dz staff can't find me, i can at least call them and tell them i'm ok (they always seem to somehow find us though).

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[speedy 0]

I trashed a cell phone after a hard opening.
Also don't jump with one if you are at risk of a chow in the swoop pond.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[xavenger 0]

I often jump with my cell phone for similar reasons .. in fact I broke my leg last year jumping away from home .. and although my "landing" had already been spotted and I knew people were on their way to help .. it enabled me to call my girlfriend and keep her informed .. also some 8-way team mates to tell them I wouldn't be helping them in the nationals the following week ;-) Phoned about 5 people whilst lying there for the ambulance to come!

[tombuch 0]

Quote

What would happen if you had no idea where you were, could 911 locate you via GPS or something? I don’t jump with my wallet so my biggest problem during this whole event was trying to contact the DZ when I had no business card or contacts list with me. Any suggestion?

A cell phone is great for contacting the DZ, but the folks at 911 will not always know where you are.

In order for Enhanced 911 to work with cell phones the local 911 system must be set up to handle the triangulation function. Few systems are configured for this yet, and most that are, are in urban areas. The phone you are using must also be configured for enhanced 911, and the provider must be set-up to provide this information to dispatch. The system is a long way from complete.

At The Ranch we are served by an outstanding public dispatcher that is equipped for enhanced 911, and they can track a cell phone to a location. Verizon offers the best cell signals in our area, and they are set-up for enhanced 911. Some of the other cell phone providers do not offer enhanced 911 tracking. That means that if you have Verizon, the weak link in our area is the actual phone. You can check with the manufacturer of your cell phone to find out if it is capable of providing location.

Keep in mind that not all areas can accommodate cell phone tracking, so unless you know the area can handle cell phones, you should tyy and call for 911 service on a land line.

Another problem with cell phones and 911 is the overload of the system. When an accident happens at a DZ many people will often call at once, jamming the lines and overloading the 911 dispatchers. Sometimes some of those calls will bounce over to another 911 system, overloading those operators too. Ideally the 911 call will be made by manifest, so that should usually be the first point of contact. Manifesters have been trained to work with 911 operators, and the manifest land line will provide the dispatchers with an exact address.

Most drop zones have an established system for handling accidents. Ask at your DZ what the policy is, and if your area has enhanced 911 that will track cell phones.

The Ranch policy is listed on our new web site at http://www.theblueskyranch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21. It is also listed on our old site (soon to be removed) in the S&TA Forum. It is called "Article 10 In an Emergency and is available at http://www.ranchskydive.com/safety/index.htm
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Tonto 1]

I jump with mine. It's a tool, it weighs nothing. Why not carry it?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[rasmack 0]

When I have landed out it has always been very nice to be able to direct the car they send out
If you are wondering why I sound like it is an everyday occurrence it is because I "grew up" at a one Cessna DZ without no "green light" or anything. You learn to spot the hard way

Presently I am jumping at a DZ with impeccable GPS-spotting, so I haven't carried my cell for quite a while.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[ntrprnr 0]

Anyone ever keep it on vibrate and have it go off under canopy, or worse, during free-fall?

Just curious as to how the under canopy conversation would go. :)

And no, I don't recommend having a cell phone conversation while under canopy OR in free-fall.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[Elisha 1]

Quote

Anyone ever keep it on vibrate and have it go off under canopy, or worse, during free-fall?

Just curious as to how the under canopy conversation would go. :)

And no, I don't recommend having a cell phone conversation while under canopy OR in free-fall.

Yeah, I'd be most afraid of dropping the phone.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Anyone ever keep it on vibrate and have it go off under canopy, or worse, during free-fall?

Just curious as to how the under canopy conversation would go. :)

And no, I don't recommend having a cell phone conversation while under canopy OR in free-fall.

Yeah, I'd be most afraid of dropping the phone.

Bluetooth headset...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Joellercoaster 6]

Only gonna help if you drop it on final

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

I'm a "think ahead..what if" type person so I jump with my Drivers License, Debit Card, $20 cash, my insurance card,and my cell phone....oh yeah, AND a pullup cord and spare rubber bands..

Glad you're okay

_________________________________________

[haymangonzo 0]

Partially related to this. But none the less.

I had my paragliding training a couple of years ago high in the Swiss Alps and this meant contact with your instructor all the time if necessary. So we pupils we're equiped with one, but mostly two intercom systems and a cellphone (plugged in one ear) put on automatic answer. The reasoning was that if the walkie talkies wouldn't work for any reason the instructor could place a call. Of course it would happen that exactly during the flight and even worse when in communication with the instructor, wifey called to know if I was enjoying myself. "Heck, sure I was, but please hang up now". By the sheer nature of skydiving I don't think it will be common practice to use cellphones with headsets during the jump.

Christ if this continues, we'll end up flying with portable dvd players to watch an educational video.

All the best,
Gonzo

***
Nice to meet you toot!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I This got me to thinking and I want to put it up for discussion. Does anybody out there jump with a cell phone on them?

Yes. Great for manifesting for another load after a hop-and-pop (getting from LZ to manifest requires a ride on the trailer or in a car).

[GeordieSkydiver 0]

I use mine to order pizza while under canopy.

*not really. (for the dumb people)

Its a good idea, it could be the difference bewteen a long walk or a ride, or worse.

Lee _______________________________

In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

[bch7773 0]

we had someone at my DZ try to call another jumper while on a cross-country. he dropped the phone.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[HydroGuy 0]

My chick just came into my office with this thread on the screen. She insists that I call her from my mobile on my next 13,000 foot hop and pop sunset load...and she wants me to take a picture of myself as well...friggen whuffo

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[mjosparky 3]

I have started carrying one when I do demos.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[MB38 0]

It could be pretty fun to experience an entire jump from the other end of a hands-free headset. Be sitting in your office and get a call from a friend.

"Hey man, I'm in the plane right now... ooh, green light. Ok, three, two, one...KSKSCHSHHHSHSHKSHSHHHHHHHHHHHHH......

...SKSSHDHKSKSNSKSSHKSHHHHHHH..FWAP!!!

Whoo! That was freakin' great!"

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[valcore 0]

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[ntrprnr 0]

That's actually an interesting thought - could you position the headset inside your helmet in such a way that it wouldn't blow off, and actually have the conversation... For that matter, if you could shove it into your jumpsuit in time, you could shoot all 15 seconds of the VZ-8000 Video Phone, and then during canopy, mail it to a friend. :)

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[Eule 0]

Quote

It could be pretty fun to experience an entire jump from the other end of a hands-free headset.

I am not 100% sure, but: your cell phone company may not like you very much. If you switched on the
phone before takeoff, it would _probably_ stay associated with the same tower all the way up and back
down. But if you waited to switch it on until you were at altitude or nearly so, you now essentially have
a cell phone with an antenna on a 10,000 - 14,000' tower. It'll cause no small amount of consternation
among the towers on the ground as your phone tries to pick the best tower out of a dozen, rather than
out of one or two. It might take your phone some time to acquire a signal, and it would probably switch
towers a lot.

The reason why I say I'm not 100% sure is that the above explanation is sometimes used to justify the
cell phone ban on commercial flights. It might be a real engineering reason, or it might be a fake reason
that sounds good. I _think_ the plans to allow cell phone use on commercial flights involve a "cell tower"
in the aircraft, so the ground towers won't be affected, but I'm not sure.

A data point: at a previous job, my boss had his own Cessna 172. I asked him once about using a cell
phone in the air and he hadn't tried it, but said he did try taking a CB radio up with him once. He
reported that it was pretty useless - on the ground you can only hear stations up to a couple of miles
away, but in the air he could hear stations from ten miles of Interstate at once - everything ran together.
(For the telecom geeks: I am aware that 27 MHz analog AM is almost a polar opposite of 900 MHz
analog FM or 1.8 GHz digital FM, etc, but I think you'd have similar issues.)

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[valcore 0]

I wonder if the cell phone ban has anything to do with line of sight comunication. I believe that this is why we need cell tower to transmit our calls because the signal range only can only extend as far at the earths curve becomes apparent (i.e. Independence Day). If this is the case then in a plane a cell phone would have a much larger signal area. Of course I am just making stuff up so I could be totaly wrong here.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[Fab 0]

Actually the reason we need cell towers is that the bandwidth is not unlimited. Each cell tower uses different frequencies/channels (usually there are three directional antennas in each cell). The neighbouring tower uses other frequencies so they won't overlap and the won't interfere with eachother...In a certain distance where the signal strength of a frequency has become 0 a tower can reuse a certain frequency again. By using more towers in a certain area the more customers can be serviced. The more towers there are the smaller the cells will be and less powerfull the antennas will be.

GSM-network in a nutshell

A signal can travel further then they line of sight under certain conditions (depending on what frequency the wave is travelling, the weather, building, etc).

Basically you are indeed making stuff up :)...

As cell towers use directional antennas I'm not sure you will get reception at 13000ft....I imagine even if you have reception it will be of poor quality.

The main reason cell phone are banned from planes is possible interference with systems on the plane.

_______________________________________

[billvon 2,400]

>The main reason cell phone are banned from planes is possible
>interference with systems on the plane.

Actually, the primary reason is interference with ground systems. The prohibition they talk about is generally the FCC, not the FAA, prohibition on aerial use of 800mhz cellular telephones. (Oddly, PCS frequencies are not mentioned.) Most carriers also have additional rules on what you can or can't use during takeoff, but this has to do with cabin safety issues as well. Airlines have done tests and shown that there is no serious risk of modern cellphones "interfering with aircraft systems."