12K vs 15K loads

[UntamedDOG 0]

Assuming that the DZ elevation is below 500 MSL, why are so many dropzones so tight about altitude. It seems like Hollister and Monterey are the only DZ’s that seem to understand how much more productive it is to have those extra few seconds of freefall.

Is it truly that much more expensive and time consuming to give up-jumpers that extra 2.5K of altitude? Why are DZ’s so damn stingy. It’s like a game of “follow the leader”.

Perris starts with credit card surcharges (which is illegal as hell, I’m surprised they haven’t been penalized for this practice), and then everyone else follows suit.

They only go to 12.5K because of airspace restrictions. That’s fine but what about Elsinore, Taft and San Diego? What is their lame excuse? Ohh the cost is so high….please, would the DZO like some cheese with that whine?

UntamedDOG

[kelpdiver 2]

You left out Byron, and ignored the fact that Perris and Elsinore are 1500ft msl. Above 13.5, they'd have to have oxygen available.

[FrogNog 1]

Flying 15k loads vs. 12k loads all day may be a lot harder on the pilots if they don't use supplemental oxygen.

I don't know if "reducing pilot fatigue" is a "lame excuse".

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[TrickyDicky 0]

Theres one DZ in the UK (Hib) that always flys to 15k. But they have Dorniers with powerful engines so dont take long to get there. Plus they own the aircraft.

If you're renting you want to turn the plane around as fast as possible while keeping jumpers happy. PLus most DZs will be at some high above MSL. Im quite happy to go to 12.5+.

And are you sure credit card surcharges are illegal? Most DZs in the UK are doing it now. VISA and Mastercard charrge 3% of every transaction. AMEX charge 5%. Why not just pay with cash/cheque/debit?

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[pincheck 0]

would it not also have something to do with the thinner air mixture for the engines ? which makes them work harder burn more fuel or does this just apply to piston engine planes.

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[UntamedDOG 0]

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If you're renting you want to turn the plane around as fast as possible while keeping jumpers happy. PLus most DZs will be at some high above MSL. Im quite happy to go to 12.5+.

And are you sure credit card surcharges are illegal? Most DZs in the UK are doing it now. VISA and Mastercard charrge 3% of every transaction. AMEX charge 5%. Why not just pay with cash/cheque/debit?

Yah, I've heard it all before. Why doesn't anyone ever get pissed about the lack of altitude in Southern California? Man, people just don't care about quality amenities.

UntamedDOG

[Eule 0]

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Man, people just don't care about quality amenities.

A little better...

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Our DZ charges $20 to 12,500. Want to go higher? Pay more. Are you willing to do that, pay for what you get?

With that said, we usually get 13,5 to 14K each time.

[tetra316 0]

Sheez what are you whining about?! 12.5K? For a lot of us 10k in a cessna is normal. Count yourself lucky you get to jump at turbine dz anytime you want.

[bigern13 0]

Another thing to keep in mind (if I remember right) is that the FAA requires the pilot be on oxygen for anything above 13.5k. So that may be another reason. (I dont remember if there is a time limit associated with that, there might be)

"I love 'lamp'."
-SKYMAMA

[ltdiver 3]

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And are you sure credit card surcharges are illegal? Most DZs in the UK are doing it now. VISA and Mastercard charrge 3% of every transaction. AMEX charge 5%. Why not just pay with cash/cheque/debit?

First time I encountered this was at Skydive Arizona. Perris didn't do this (cash discount) until many years later.

There are numerous businesses who give cash discounts to their customers. Yes, it is illegal to levy a surcharge on credit cards. However, it is perfectly legal to give a cash discount off your listed prices. Which is what many DZ's do.

A business has to pay a 3-5% extra charge for us using a credit card, so if they didn't 'pass the charge' onto us they would actually be losing money for each credit card transaction.

I prefer to use cash, anyway. Keeps me thinking about what I'm spending....instead of letting credit card purchases get out of hand (which we all tend to do if we don't 'actually' see the immediate cash outflow). I thank Skydive AZ and Perris for helping me out with my 'spending problem'. :^)

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[ltdiver 3]

Bwhahahahaha!!!

Exactly! If you look at his history all of his posts are like this. I wish he would just go away.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[UntamedDOG 0]

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Exactly! If you look at his history all of his posts are like this. I wish he would just go away.

It would appear that you have similar behavioral patterns in your posts as well.
You are always politically correct. You always know the right thing to say. Does it ever get boring?..... being so perfect? I sure wish I was as interesting as you.

UntamedDOG

[riggerrob 558]

First of all, most piston-engined jump planes get sluggish above 9,000 feet.
Heck!
The first jump plane that I flew was a beater Cessna 172 that refused to climb above 5,000 MSL on hot summer days.

In Canada, we rarely jump from more than 12,500' because of the Canadian Air Regulations, which require that any time fly above 10,000', you must have supplementary oxygen available.
Secondly, if you climb above 12,500', everyone should be sucking from an oxygen mask.

Fourth, Canadian pilots need permission from air traffic controllers to climb into Class B airspace above 12,500'. That means asking permission from ANOTHER controller, who is probably not familiar with skydiving and can refuse any traffic any time he wants with no explanation.

Fifth, hypoxia is a sneaky malady. Many people get badly hypoxic and don't even notice it. Hypoxia hits different people, different ways on different days. Hypoxia is like alcoholism in that the first symptom is denial.

Finally, anything above 12,500' is a luxury, so stop whining if not all the DZs offer that luxury.

Go read a textbook on aviation medicine and do a chamber ride before resuming your rant.

[mjosparky 3]

Have you ever found anything that made you happy? Your world must be a very lonely place

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Remster 24]

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Have you ever found anything that made you happy?

I suspects it has to do with sneaking in people's trailers and trying their clothes on. He admited doing so to Dom, but, smart money is on him trying on skirts and frilly tops too.

Remster

[Silverchic 0]

I remember we had 2 tandems that paid extra to go to 14K and we were all soooooooo excited and wanted to be on those loads - arguing about it and passing on the first 10K load...then we found out that if the plane was full it wouldn't make it to 14K!!!

How is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage?

[kelpdiver 2]

being at the previously mentioned Norcal DZs, it's when the tandems pay for 18k that we get the option to pay an extra 3-5$ for a bit more height (though it doesn't always end up being that much higher than 15k)

I've sometimes gotten more altitude on a light load "15" than a full "18"!

[azureriders 0]

I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I have never jumped bellow 14k. Our DZ is somewhere around 50ft above sea level and we have a super otter.

[packerboy 3]

I thought you got banned from Perris anyway.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[diablopilot 2]

Can someone get rid of this guy?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[UntamedDOG 0]

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I thought you got banned from Perris anyway.

The ban was only 2 months. I’m back at Perris now.



UntamedDOG

[UntamedDOG 0]

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First of all, most piston-engined jump planes get sluggish above 9,000 feet.

That isn’t my problem. It’s a design flaw by the manufacturer. Why use planes that don’t work? Perhaps a turbo Cessna 206 would be the answer. You don’t open a dropzone if you can’t get to altitude. It’s just that simple. If your car doesn’t have a fast engine, don’t get mad when you lose the race.

15K should be the standard altitude. If a DZ is above sea level, they should equip their jump planes with oxygen.

UntamedDOG

[crazydiver 0]

I have about 1200 jumps mostly from a field elevation of more than 4,500 feet MSL. The last dropzone I was at we jumped from 13,500 almost every load...which was a grand luxury. The current dropzone i'm at jumps from 12.5 K...not too bad for a field elevation of over 5,000 feet. On almost every jump we are coming very close to the cieling of 18,000 feet MSL that jumpers are allowed to casually jump from. Oxygen is on the plane, but I rarely use it and when I do its simply because its there to take advantage of and i've never been in a situation where I really felt as thought i needed it...I realize a person's perception of their hypoxia is distorted.

I agree with all of the folks that are saying there is no validity in complaining about altitude for 20 bucks. If someone is gonna give more altitude, they should charge more. For the folks who have the option of going higher than 13,000 ft., its simply to costly/time consuming to go higher. Out here we have no choice, but all of the DZO's i've worked with would...obviously...prefer to go to 13,000 starting from sea level. It does take a long time to climb the higher you get. It takes really good jumpships to get to altitude quickly. Currently, my dz has a king air that can get to 17.5K msl in about 13 minutes and an otter that can do it almost as fast....i think that's damn impressive for our elevation. I've landed in a density altitude of more than 11,000 ft on countless occasions during the summers here in Colorado.

Anyway. To sum up, the reason DZ's dont go higher is simply cost/time efficiency. All of the past/present DZO's that are reading this can vouch. If a DZ has 150 tandems to do in a day, the extra few minutes per load going higher in altitude is creating a serious sum of wasted time at the end of the day. Fuel prices are now ridiculous high and I'm surprised that our jump tickets aren't more.

I'm still happy.

Cheers,
Travis

[gemini 0]

Spaceland frequently gives us a bonus and takes us to 14.5 at no additional cost. At Dublin last March all the jumpers on the Otter were getting extra altitude. Thanks Steve & Rabbitt.

Blue skies,

Jim