Would you pay to watch a Swoop Competition?

[GravityGirl 0]

Yeah. But Rantoul doesn't have free food. And Rantoul is more of an all around freak show. This would be marketed as a sporting event. Colorado seems to be full of sporty people. Each demographic is different. Just check out the wuffo crowd at Rantoul.

Another thought that came to mind. If you are selling tickets to skydivers and non skydivers, let the skydivers jump in to the event.

Pay for your lift ticket plus admission. Set up a big open landing area. Get the load up early enough for them to land, pack, go get some food and a beer and sit back and enjoy. Now you have free "Pre Game" entertainment courtesy of your spectators.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[freakydiver 0]

nope

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[MakeItHappen 15]

Swooping or any skydiving event needs real time scoring to appeal to a spectator.
Today, only classic accuracy has real time scoring. Classic accuracy was fun to watch.

If you want to draw a crowd you'd also need a big scoreboard to show who's winning. The scoreboard has to be updated and visible to the crowd. The time lag should be no longer than what you see at the Olympics for gymnastics or ice skating.

Swooping distance kinda-sorta allows the crowd to see who got the furthest, but you didn't know until later if the person was disqualified by not hitting the entrance gate.
The time between rounds is much too long for spectators. It wasn't always clear (at 2005 Nats) who was coming thru the course. Sometimes even the announcer got it wrong. Whuffoes would have an even harder time figuring out who the leaders were.

Swooping accuracy needs a LOT of improvement. I saw person after person crash into the ground in order to hit a rectangular box. They landed harder than we did under T-10s, PCs, Pigletts or even 28' flats. Then the judges by the box would show a sign of how many points, but then the gate judge would disqualify it. So you really weren't sure how the jumper did.

I haven't seen much swooping freestyle. Whuffoes would have a hard time understanding what moves are more difficult or dangerous.

Overall, after watching a few people pass through the course, it gets pretty boring.
The only thing that made it 'interesting' was watching people pound into the high point box and ask 'What kind of competition is this?'
The time between rounds was way too long.

Freefall events could have judges in freefall with the team, judging real time. A much more expensive way to run it, but it would be more appealing to a spectator. Or you could have ground bound judges, judging a broadcast video in real time. Then you'd have to space out the passes in time more. Also more expensive. The big drawback is that whuffoes do not know the formations and would not be able to follow along in real time. One event that could work is speed star or speed formations. Just check out 'how exciting' Cutaway made speed 8-way. The crowd knew by the time the team was landing how well they did. Real time judging would have to be in place to make it spectator friendly.

We used to have real time judging in the days of telemeters. Today, broadcast video could be used to create real time judging. Yeah, it is more expensive, but that was said about each team having a video person too.

Real time scoring is a necessary condition for a spectator sport.
That's what makes the competition interesting to the spectator.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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Lets see.. Rantoul has the pond right next to the whuffo area and even though it is free for spectators to come they only every fill one of those portable bleachers and then a few people. Granted, its not the "world championships" but in years past it used to be a fairly well attended swoop meet. The WFFC dumps large sums of money into local advertising to get people to come out and they can't even hold a crowd there.

This year could turn out differently. In the past, the WFFC was scheduled exactly during the time that almost 15,000 University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign - 20 mi. from Rantoul) students, faculty, and staff are away on vacation, between semesters. This year, the WFFC will take place just before finals prior to the end of the summer session, so it will be entirely possible, given the right advertizing, to attract many more spectators. It will be interesting to see what happens ...

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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And we wonder why skydiving will never hit the mainstream. If WE wouldn't pay to watch the best of the best do their thing, then how can we ever hope to convince anybody else to.

Canuck

I don't care if it does ever make it "mainstream", bro. If it hasn't in the 25 years I have been actively skydiving and instructing, or the nearly 50 years that my father has been doing the same, then it's not going to. That, though, doesn't bother me a bit. Skydivers will never be paid like celebrities in this country. There are simply too few of us doing it and only a miniscule amount of us that even bother to compete or put on demonstrations.

I have been paid to to skydive in front of people plenty of times......on demos. Lots of jumps into filled-to-capacity bowl stadiums with three different demo teams over the years. That's different though. Those people showed up to see a game and the sponsor graciously provided some "warm up" entertainment. Charging a price for admittance into a skydiving-only competition (any discipline) is pretty ludicrous to me. How do you propose to stop all the other non-paying whuffos and skydivers from observing an event? I would laugh if I ever saw someone trying to charge spectators....seriously

Chuck

[skydance1954 0]

Once upon a time I wanted very badly for our sport to become "mainstream". After some life experience in other sports, and simply watching the evolution of ours and others, I've been convinced that I really DON'T want us to be mainstream anymore.

If we go mainstream, it'll be corporate businesses running the show, not skydivers. And quire frankly, I don't want that.

While the arguments for charging to see top-notch athletes battle it out are valid in the sense of that's what other sports do, we all have to remember that we constantly need new blood. Right now we're in a slump. Far fewer people are taking up the sport now than have in the past. Since those of us who have been here more than 5 years knows how fast the turnover is, That means it's not going to take very long for the small DZs to die, and the large DZs to have serious cash flow issues.

So - that said, we need to keep the spectator area a free area so that we can appear before the largest crowds possible. Market the event, yes, but draw the money in other ways. T-shirts, concessions, contests, whatever. But no entry fees.

-My 2cents..

-M

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[dsbbreck 0]

Thank you for all your input. It's great, keep it up.

Something to think about.

As strange as it sounds, the public sees value in something they have to pay for, and no value in something that is offered for free.

I totally expected most skydivers to say NO to this question because they are so use to seeing it for free.

If the large competitions started charging and you couldn't watch without paying for it, would you pay?

David

"Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question."

[Anvilbrother 0]

I would. I dont see why people are like OOH NO me pay! I think it would be enjoyable to watch, and that is what I am paying for. A good time with my family.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Shit...you kids are looking at it all wrong! How many would pay to watch Lisa swoop?

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[hottamaly 1]

I swear, this generation of jumpers think they should get paid for everything. They won't coach without $$and you're lucky if they even talk to you and give some general advice. What happened to the days when we all loved to share our wisdom and experiances?

Hell, why don't they just charge us just to watch them skydive too?

Sorry, had to rant and vent. Done now

Skydiving gave me a reason to live
I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live

[brianfry713 0]

I'd pay one jump ticket to watch them exit before I did . Not that I'd be competing yet, and hopefully going up to full altitude.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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If the price was reasonable and the talent of the competitors was exceptional, would you pay to watch a swoop competition.

What do you think a fair price for a 3 day event would be?

Swooping would be fun to watch on TV, with the waiting for picking and climbs to altitude all edited out to make a nice hour-long package. It would make a great exhibition before other sporting events and during the halftime shows (Presumably Jason Peters does this at the NHRA drag races.) But even as a skydiver who hadn't jumped in nearly six months I didn't have the patience to watch more than an hour of the Colorado Go-Fast competition.

[skydance1954 0]

I completely agree with you on that one. It can be argued that we've swung too far into the "pro" mindset. That could be a factor in our inability to make the sport grow today as it has in the past.

However, back to the point at hand - the public does not understand the rules of skydiving - regardless of discipline. They DO understand football, baseball, hockey, basketball, skiing, golf and racing. (Be it cars or something else) Why? Because for the most part, most people have participated in those sports when growing up, or they've picked it up from mom and dad and grew into it. Other sports, like figure skating they learn when they grow up because they find it visually attractive. But even then, it's pretty much restricted to the world level competitions.

Does the public find competititve skydiving interesting? Yes, when they can get up close to see it. But even then, they can't watch 4 or 8 way very long without their eyes glazing over. They can watch accuracy if it's live because it's entertaining to see the competitors crash in, and as mentioned in a previous post - they get an immediate result. Everyone understands zero is good, and 1 meter is bad. Canopy swooping might be close to that, but the rules are not as easily understood. Freefly? Forget it - way too esoteric for the wuffo to understand. Looks very cool and a lot of fun - but how the heck do you judge that?

And you're suggesting that we charge people to see this?

A race or a sporting game lasts 2 - 4 hours. The public can stay focused on the game for that long, and the result is known when they leave. Our meets take all day, sometimes 2 days, and the results take time after that. That's like trying to watch a cricket match. Anyone here ever try that? We don't know the rules, it takes days to play, and we don't understand how to win. To those that know the sport, and are passionate about it, sure, they'll pay to watch, but when was the last time you saw a major cricket match in the US?

Before you point out that cricket is not popular here - you have to ask why? Is it because it's originally British, or because it does not appeal to the basic American sense of what a sporting event is supposed to be?

People pay to get into these sporting events because they became wildly popular and in the grand enterprenurial spirit of America, they organized into professional leagues and so they grew into what we have today. Early sports - all of them - started with individuals playing the game.

So - back to swooping. Right now it's a niche activity performed by a very few people in the world, and very few people find it interesting to watch. How many top notch swoopers are there world wide? Now, how many of them actually get the opportunity to strut their stuff at competitions?

Make it wildly popular first. Then start charging admission.

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[skybytch 259]

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How many would pay to watch Lisa swoop?

Six foot swoops, baby! That's some sick shit!

Yeah, you just wish you were as cool as I am.

[Icon134 0]

Good Post Mike.

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Before you point out that cricket is not popular here - you have to ask why? Is it because it's originally British, or because it does not appeal to the basic American sense of what a sporting event is supposed to be?

Isn't cricket kind of a slow game... like even more so then baseball.

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[AndyMan 7]

Nope. I watched one once, and enjoyed taking some pictures. After about an hour I wandered off to do something else.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=45507;

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[WeakMindedFool 0]

At least I now have a goal to shoot for Sunday, Skydance 1000 for me! We need to do something...weird!

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[Joellercoaster 6]

Cricket maybe?

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Capt36 6]

>I would not pay to watch any skydiving event, ever.

Amen to that fact!

I'd first pay the pilot to watch the plane fly....
.

Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless beauty...

And, give money for Mr Douglas! www.mrdouglas.org

[popsjumper 2]

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I swear, this generation of jumpers think they should get paid for everything. They won't coach without $$and you're lucky if they even talk to you and give some general advice. What happened to the days when we all loved to share our wisdom and experiances?

I'm really sorry you feel this way, Linda...please know that there are tons of us out here who "give back".
Here's a major one that I will support for the rest of my skydiving career...

http://www.skyfestboogie.com/dz_sponsor_requirements.html

Please come over to the East coast...many, many DZs have people able and willing to help youngsters at no cost to them...

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Vertifly 0]

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They won't coach without $$and you're lucky if they even talk to you and give some general advice.

I haven't been around as long as you guys but it has been this way since I can remember. Skydiving is more a hobbie then a sport - imho. The difference between a sport and a hobbie is that, with a hobbie, you have to pay into the industry to get anything out of it.

[rocketdog 0]

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I swear, this generation of jumpers think they should get paid for everything.

i agree, i think it's like exploiting your TRUE fans -- the skydivers who understand the difficulty & risk of swooping.

i voted NO because EVERY PERSON who gets on a load will come down (some just do it w/ better precision & creativity)...... why should people pay to see what will happen inevitably?

~hollywood

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[Icon134 0]

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I swear, this generation of jumpers think they should get paid for everything. They won't coach without $$and you're lucky if they even talk to you and give some general advice. What happened to the days when we all loved to share our wisdom and experiances?

Then you haven't met me... cause I definitely don't feel this way and I think I'm a member of this generation. Of course I suppose the fact that I don't make my money through skydiving (but through something unrelated) probably is a factor.

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[dsbbreck 0]

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I swear, this generation of jumpers think they should get paid for everything.

I swear, it seems that every generation of jumpers can take a simple question and turn it into something ugly and something to argue about.

David

"Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question."

[diablopilot 2]

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I swear, this generation of jumpers think they should get paid for everything. They won't coach without $$and you're lucky if they even talk to you and give some general advice. What happened to the days when we all loved to share our wisdom and experiances?

Hell, why don't they just charge us just to watch them skydive too?

Sorry, had to rant and vent. Done now

Amen! Unfortunatle the credt card babies of this sport are enabling them.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.