When a parachute opens in the airplane...

[Skyliber 0]

What happens when a parachute opens inside an airplane?

During my AFP course, my instructor said (if i remember correctly)

1. it might just pop but nothing will happen.
2. it will start to inflate and we have to contain it
3. they are going to throw you out of the airplane because it could endanger everyone.

is 3 really true? I ask, because I am argueing with a co-worker who says it's impossible that the parachute will open like that.

let me fill you in on my 'co-worker', he's only done one tandem and he thinks he knows everything. i have gone on two tandems and took that 6 hour course. *shrugs* i'm not mr. know it all, but i want to know, if it happens, what will happen.

thanks
~b

-=+ Skyliber, Disynthegrate, & Nucleaire +=-

[AggieDave 6]

Number 1: Talk to your instructors! Any information you read here may not be correct, no matter how many jumps and experience the poster says he/she has.

Now, number 2: If you're by the door of an airplane that is open or partially open for ventilation and your PC (pilot chute) comes out and starts to go out the door, then don't be surprised if a heads up jumper pushes you out of the airplane as hard as he/she can.

If you PC exits the airplane without you, you WILL follow it and it WON'T be pretty. Infact you're lible to go through the wall of the airplane.

Now, with that said, you're a student, you'll typically be in the front (or the back of the plane in reference to the jump door) since you'll be one of the last jumpers out.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bob.dino 0]

If it's inside the plane and the door is closed, contain it, warn the pilot, descend.

If it's inside the plane and the door is open, contain it, close the door, warn the pilot, descend.

If it's outside the plane, rugby tackle them off it to try and stop it going over the tail.

It the person is inside the plane, the door is open, and the pilot chute or parachute gets outside the plane, kick the person out asap and hope like hell they don't take the plane with them. However, this situation will probably develop so rapidly that you won't have time to react before it goes to shit.

At least, that's my thinking on the subject.

[Skyliber 0]

thanks for responding.

it's more of a general question. believe me, i'm not looking for this to happen to me or anyone.

i'm going to take most of this with a grain of salt and then later talk to my instructor for more clarification, but that will be on saturday. just curious, if it does start to hope, it can be a hazard to the safety of everyone in the airplane regardless if you are a student or your jump order?

thanks again.

-=+ Skyliber, Disynthegrate, & Nucleaire +=-

[skybytch 259]

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if it does start to hope, it can be a hazard to the safety of everyone in the airplane regardless if you are a student or your jump order?

If it gets out the door it's going to pull the person attached to it out of the airplane. There's no guarantee that the person will leave the plane via the door. They may leave via the aircraft fuselage, perhaps taking vital parts and pieces with them; this could be an issue for everyone in the plane if one or more of those parts and pieces are needed operate control surfaces, not to mention that it could be an issue for said jumper who has to exit through the fuselage. Or they may leave through the door after their body hits a few other jumpers on the way out; this could be an issue for those jumpers who get hit.

[councilman24 36]

If any part of the pilot chute or parachute gets outside the airplane you WILL exit the airplane. If your fast enough to get out the door great. If you don't you will go through the side of the airplane. Find a copy of Parachuting, The Skydivers Handbook. There is a famous picture of a 182 with a big hole from the door aft.

It is a serious danger to the airplane and all that are in it, let alone the jumper with the problem. Do not underestimate the seriousness of this situation. It won't pull you through the door. It will pull you straight, through whatever and whoever is in the way. If it goes over the tail or you strike the tail that could take down the aircraft. The damage caused by you being pulled out could take down the plane. And just because everyone has a parachute on doesn't mean they will be able to get out and use them.

This is rare, that it isn't contained. But care of pins and gear is important.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Feeblemind 1]

Are you curious how fast a person would leave once their PC caught air? take a peak www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1982

Also please take notice all the other jumpers exiting the aircraft in short order (of course back flying to get video )

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[peckerhead 0]

I had my main go over the tail of a 182. If it would have been my reserve I'd be dead.

It cut most of the lines off of the left riser and tore a hole in the canopy big enough you could walk through it.

Unless you experience it you have no idea how fast shit happens. Talk about a hard opening!

I guess there is a reason we don't use belly bands anymore.

[JerryBaumchen 1,064]

Back in the late '60's a guy was sitting transverse to the line of flight, behind the pilot in a C-180. The left rear window was out of the airplane. The guy was jumping a piggyback rig and his reserve pilot chute inadvertently went out that little window, he 'quickly' followed.

If something gets out of the aircraft, it is very serious.

Jerry

[DSE 3]

Read the Skydiving Handbook.
Has a photo of a Cessna, don't know the model, but it's torn door to tail from this exact thing happening.
No one died, but looking at the photo, it sure makes you wonder.

[mjosparky 3]

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Read the Skydiving Handbook.
Has a photo of a Cessna, don't know the model, but it's torn door to tail from this exact thing happening.
No one died, but looking at the photo, it sure makes you wonder.

Is there an echo in here?

From post #6.

"Find a copy of Parachuting, The Skydivers Handbook. There is a famous picture of a 182 with a big hole from the door aft."

---

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[DSE 3]

Oops, missed that one. Didn't realize it was worth the bandwidth to pop it up tho. Problem w/that?

[Hambone 0]

I have seen a reserve pop top pop on the way to altitude, luckly the door was closed and a riggger moved very quickly, using a pull up cord to secure it to the rig while we were still climbing, the jumper then moved to the front of the plane and put on a seat belt and rode the plane down. It was during one of my AFF Jumps...needless to say it was a little hair raising.

Yeah...You need to grow up. -Skymama

[StreetScooby 5]

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I have seen a reserve pop top pop on the way to altitude,

I had my Vector reserve pop once on the ride up. I was sitting against the back of the otter, and the pin caught an edge of something and came out. Some very quick thinking people immediately sat on me, helped me get the rig off, and I went to the front of the plane for the ride down.

We are all engines of karma

[Hambone 0]

This is basically what i saw except it bounced off the back wall then the roof.

Yeah...You need to grow up. -Skymama

[lawrocket 3]

Here's the Australian Transportation Safety Bureau report (.pdf format) on a premature opening of a reserve that led to a tailstrike fatality at Nagambie in 2001.

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2001/AAIR/pdf/aair200101903_001.pdf

I'd recommend everyone read the report and note that the warnings were there. It's got pictures from a previous jump showing his reserve flap coming loose from rubbing against the door.

To the original poster - this report is all the evidence you need abotu how a premature on an aircraft can endanger everybody.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[riggerrob 558]

Lesson learned - from the Australian Caravan crash - don't bang your reserve container against the door frame.

This reminds me of two similar accidents in Southern California during the 1990s.
In San Diego, a tall, awkward, AFF student banged his (Telesis I) reserve container repeatedly against the top of the door frame of a King Air. He broke his reserve closing loop and launched his reserve canopy over the horizontal tail. The pilot managed to retain control, but was not amused about the expense of replacing the entire left side of the tail.

In a similar incident, an up-jumper banged a Reflex repeatedly against a door frame, breaking the closing loop and deploying the reserve. Fortunately he did not seriously damage the airplane.

As a "table trick" I have stretched Cypres closing loops across the smooth part of a vice and cut them with the smooth face of a ball peen hammer.
When loops are under tension, it takes surprizingly little effort to break them!

The moral of the story is: if you bang ANY reserve container - long enough and hard enough against a door frame - you will break the reserve closing loop.

[riggerrob 558]

... "Parachuting, The Skydivers Handbook." There is a famous picture of a 182 with a big hole from the door aft.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That old picture is of a cargo-door, Cessna U206.
They got off easy.
If they had torn the door frame of a Cessna 182, they would have also torn out the aileron control cables and a fuel line!

[billvon 2,434]

I'll give you a what-did-happen story.

A guy on our Otter was getting ready to exit. Door was opened. At some point his main parachute container opened (he was facing the door) and his main fell out backwards into the plane. At this point, it could have been contained. But the people near him shouted "GO!"

He interpreted that as "I should climb out" and he started to climb out. His main caught air, went out the door, and inflated over the tail. He went under the tail. He took a moment to see if it was his main or reserve that had gone over (which was very good thinking on his part) then cut away the main. The main stayed stuck on the tail, and he fell free.

The plane went immediately into a screaming dive, with all that drag back there. Another jumper and I got everyone out of the plane, then I looked at the tail. By that point everything had cleared; the pilot chute/bag were the last to go.

We went to the pilot to tell him what had happened and to ask what he wanted us to do. He gave us another pass (at about 9000 feet; we had lost a lot of altitude) and we got out. He landed without incident and the plane was not seriously damaged.

A better strategy for this incident would have been to pull him back into the plane and get the door closed. The basic rule is that if nothing is outside the plane, then pull them in, close the door, contain the parachute. If anything goes out the door (lines, pilot chute, Dbag) then get them out as fast as possible and as low as possible.

[Skydivesg 6]

Aggie Dave has some good points. I could be wrong (so Dave please take no offense) however, it seems that he is assuming you are an AFF student in an Otter or other turbine aircraft. Things are different if you're at a Cessna DZ.
Regardless of where you sit in a Cessna 182 or 206 you are always close enough to the door for a pilot chute to get out of an open door. It's very possible you would be on the floor right next to the door.
If a pilot chute were to come out and get out the door you are going to follow it no matter how hard you try not to. This is why people are saying they would push you out.
The action of pushing the person out the door in this situation is meant to save your life as opposed to have you extracted through the wall of the plane.
The pictures they talk of are real. I had a freind get pulled out of a C182. He was very lucky as he was on his knees jumpmastering a S/L student and leaning out the door when it happened. His right hip busted the door frame but did not completey tear the frame out so the controls were still usable albeit a very rough couple of minutes for the pilot to land the plane. My freind survived with a very soar black and blue right hip and leg. The plane landed but was totaled. It even had an entire row of rivets popped on the top of the right wing.
Now even though this was a very scary event you must know that it happened in the late 70s when the student gear was surplus military gear and even the experienced gear was bulky and cumbersome.
The likely hood of this happening now has been greatly reduced but not eliminated.
If you are careful with getting in, moving around and climbing out of a plane * and you get a pin check before getting in and again on jump run * and you protect your handles while in a plane, especially while the door is open you can, and likely will, prevent this from ever happening to you.
The fact that you are thinking about it and asking questions now is a good sign that you are concerned for safety.
A healthy concern for safety will keep you and your freinds alive and jumping for a long time to come.
Blue Skies and Be Safe
Sandy

[AggieDave 6]

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Things are different if you're at a Cessna DZ.
Regardless of where you sit in a Cessna 182 or 206 you are always close enough to the door for a pilot chute to get out of an open door. It's very possible you would be on the floor right next to the door.

You are quite right.

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The pictures they talk of are real. I had a freind get pulled out of a C182. He was very lucky as he was on his knees jumpmastering a S/L student and leaning out the door when it happened. His right hip busted the door frame but did not completey tear the frame out so the controls were still usable albeit a very rough couple of minutes for the pilot to land the plane. My freind survived with a very soar black and blue right hip and leg. The plane landed but was totaled. It even had an entire row of rivets popped on the top of the right wing.

Wow.

There's another item to think about when doing anything out of an older model 182. The older models has a flap handle that is a lot like an E-brake on an older car. Its on the "transmission hump" in the middle (directly infront of the fuel selector). Well, with a large rig it is very possible to lodge a PC handle under the handle.

That happened to me about 4 years ago when doing a practice demo flag jump at my DZ, wearing the largest student rig we have. Luckily the DZO, who is also a SL/IAD-I was sitting in the JM position. He stopped my climbout, was able to dislodge the very stuck PC and IAD me to safety.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mdrejhon 8]

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3. they are going to throw you out of the airplane because it could endanger everyone.It happens. People have been killed because of an airplane that fell apart because a parachute tangled with the airplane. Not all planes manage to hold together from a plane-parachute entanglement.

If your pilot chute or parachute escapes outside of the airplane, you're going -- even if I have to push, tackle, or literally RAM you off the airplane, without warning. Your life and/or the plane (i.e. my life too) is potentially mere seconds or fractions of seconds away from possible catastrophic failure and death.

There is the Nagambie incident where the tail of a Cessna broke off the airplane - this is what could happen; good reason to RAM you off the airplane if your container begins deploying for any reason while still on the plane.

• Quote

[kelpdiver 2]

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If any part of the pilot chute or parachute gets outside the airplane you WILL exit the airplane.

Terry - if someone grabbed the bridle as the PC goes out the door, is the PC still powerful enough to start the excitement? I thought it was a pull strength of only 80-90lbs? The catch is that it's a very sudden impulse - a static force of 90 seems like it would be easy to oppose.

[councilman24 36]

Try tying a bridle to two 40lb bags of salt. Then pick them up off the floor. Without burning your palms or wrapping it around your hands. I'm not even going to try. And 80lbs is lower than most pilot chutes. Try 3 bags. And if you could hold on whats going to keep it from taking YOU out the door? We might be able to lift 120 lbs but we're braced against the floor with out feet, not sitting on it. Or off balance kneeling to climb out.

Forget it!

It has a head start and it's going to keep going. Only bad things, like entanglement with your arm, can happen trying to hold on to it. If it's out the door in the wind it's going.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[TMPattersonJr 0]

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If any part of the pilot chute or parachute gets outside the airplane you WILL exit the airplane.

Terry - if someone grabbed the bridle as the PC goes out the door, is the PC still powerful enough to start the excitement? I thought it was a pull strength of only 80-90lbs? The catch is that it's a very sudden impulse - a static force of 90 seems like it would be easy to oppose.

I'm not Terry, but borrow someone's rig that has a pull-out on it, and try to hold on to the PC after it inflates.With a regular Throw out PC you have it by the top center so you have the drag of the material in a "streamer" and it isn't that much. I have a P/O on my rig and have just about ripped my sholder out of socket a few times not meaning to hold on to it so long. But you would be surprised how much pull force that little thing has!!!

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