Deuce 1 #26 July 1, 2004 QuoteI dunno - I don't have the experiance to judge weather or not they have the reactiontime and air awareness to handle a bad situation. QuoteI hve been cut off in the air several times by this jumper and they were not wearing a camera. Clinster, this person is not only reacting to bad situations, they are CREATING them. We;re not talking about downsizing, we are talking about midairs, and they tend to critically injure and kill people. Throw a fit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #27 July 1, 2004 Quote It is not my responsibility to be the S&TA - not my JOB - but I still like this jumper and don't want them to be making bad decisions - but doesn't everyone? Doesn't everyone want the best for their fellow jumpers? Clint, if you see an issue, point it out in a friendly manner, if that doesn't work, involve the S&TA. It might not be your job, but it is all of our responsibility to keep each other safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elfanie 0 #28 July 1, 2004 Would do you guys see as the increased risk of flying a pen-camera inside your helmet with the recording camera in a pack inside your suit? (belly mount) That eliminates the entanglement issue (the camera is inside your helmet and the size of a sharpie pen, about)...eliminates the weight concerns with a hard opening and flying and such.... the only increased risk that I can think of is if you are more concerned with the camera than what you're doing (flying) and your altitude... What other increased risk is there to flying this type of setup? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #29 July 1, 2004 > Would do you guys see as the increased risk of flying a pen-camera >inside your helmet with the recording camera in a pack inside your suit? >(belly mount) 1. Prep. In the plane there will be a fair amount of button-pushing and switch-flipping; that might well be attention diverted away from the dive planning or your own gear check. 2. Focus. When you are doing camera your focus is elsewhere; you will move, point your head, and fly differently because you are "getting the shot." It's happened to me even when I'm using a belly-mount, which I can turn on and 99% ignore. 3. Intent. It's easy to think that any jump where you exit the plane, open and land is basically the same. But a demo is very different from a 4-way at your home DZ, even if the demo is a wide open areas. People get "demo fever" and take stupid risks. They are unwilling to "disappoint" their spectators. A similar thing happens with a camera; you might be tempted to stay closer to the center of a really messy dive because your friend is doing her 100th jump and she really wants video. A friend of mine died doing something like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #30 July 1, 2004 The best advice I ever heard about jumping a camera... "You should be able to do anymove without thinking about it, and feel comfertable in regular freefall before you even think about adding the stress of jumping a camera, or getting the shot." Getting the shot almost killed me on jump # 280."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #31 July 1, 2004 Care to elaborate for learning sake?...FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #32 July 2, 2004 QuoteCare to elaborate for learning sake? Do a search.....Its on here...I was stupid."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #33 July 2, 2004 ... Target fixation is a problem, especially for low timers......My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #34 July 3, 2004 Learning Sake...the japanese wisdom brew!! I imagine it was target fixation leading to a low pull and possibly a 2 - out.... am I close? I have heard of these before. My AFF instructor had video of a pumpkin and her going f&*% , f*&^, until she landed under 2. I don't think she ever put the camera on again....FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #35 July 4, 2004 To rephrase Ron's advice: "Saving your own life - and staying out of other people's way - should be second nature before you strap on a camera." If exit timing, relative work, judging altitude, deciding where to turn onto final, timing your flare, etc. turn requires a CONSCIOUS mental effort, then you are not ready to jump with a camera. You should achieve ZEN in skydiving before you strap on a camera. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #36 July 4, 2004 There is the simple point of handing him the SIM and showing the recomendation of 200 jumps and a C license. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #37 July 5, 2004 Since you refuse to do a search...Geeze how hard is it folks? I had 250ish jumps and my buddy was vidoeing a tandem for his 300th...Hw wanted video so they rigged me up a helmet. Tandem pulled kinda low (but we didn't know it), he fliped on his back...I thought that was cool and fliped on my back for him... The first clue I was screwed was when I saw the horizon pass by my feet..I thought...Well, your dead! Pull somthing. As I was flipping over I was reaching for my reserve, and my main was deploying...When I realized I was low,I threw it and never knew. Lets just say I was WAY sub 1,000 feet. More like 500-600 when I got as canopy. Thank god it was a long time ago, and I had a Raven II as main, and not a stiletto. QuoteI imagine it was target fixation leading to a low pull and possibly a 2 - out.... A two out would have required a CYPRES...And they were not considered a needed piece of equipment back then...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #38 July 5, 2004 Okay - When I try to post in the serious threads, I usually come in too late and with not enough to say.. Well, here is another concern that we need to take into considerations in times like these. Those 100-300 jump wonders (I too have been guilty of this at times..) see a hipocracy - "What do you mean YOU jumped a camera at 27 jumps and then tell me I shouldn't jump until I have 500!?!?" People thake this personally as an attack on their flying skills. We see it on the forums here all the time!! I like Wendy's idea the most. Start posing what-if questions to the jumper in question and hopefully try to get them thinking of things they haven't thought of yet...=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #39 July 5, 2004 For the same reason I hope my kids listen when I say just because I was guilty of inder age drinking doesn't make it OK for you. Learn from my mistakes. Granted they probably won't listen but you have to do everything you can. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #40 July 5, 2004 QuoteSo I shouldn't wear a side mount helmet with a PC 105 on my first balloon jump next weekend? certainly too early as discussed, but if you want some footage, leave your camera to someone in the balloon, at least you'll have the exit. and enjoy the jump scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theskydiveguy 0 #41 July 7, 2004 I straped on my camera at jump #50.. no problems.. Maybe i'm lucky.. Maybe I had some skills? naaaaaa.. I was lucky! ~Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #42 July 7, 2004 So how many jumps should it be until we strap a camera to our heads. I got into skydiving through a school. The deal was i saw an article on the news in new zealand. I joined this course and we spent 40 hours a week at the dropzone, rain or shine. Learning a whiole lot of stuff about skydiving. i know this sounds stupid but alot was drilled into us. NZ is a tandem country. So after about 100 jumps if that, we were jumping with camera helmet and no cameras. After about 5 of these jumps we would be loading up our helmets with full camera. This course went for 5 months and we all left with 200 skydives and straight into work as camera flyers around new zealand. Most people are now tandem masters. This course takes about 50 students a year. We learn meteorology and before the course is finished we must have 200 pack jobs plus 40 tandem packs. I do not think this course is the best way to learn because we all come out thinking we know everything. This i think is because we do 200 jumps plus in 5 months while a normal sporty would do this in a year or 2. But we are all bloody good safe camera flyers. I know you will all disagree with this way of learning but it has proven good so far and put a 200 odd people into the sport as we get government student loans to pay the course fees. Belive it or not the course is called...."bachelor in commercial skydiving". the school has a web site with the prospectus of this course on the web site. I suggest you all take a look at this as it is primarily a course fo people with no jumps to be trained camera flyers after 5 months. I would love to hear what you have to say in regards to this course after you have read about it on the web site.........'www.skydiving.co.nz" well cheers guys, this will get you worried, i promise. BIGWAY .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #43 July 7, 2004 Uh, if you were replying to me, I had 197 RW jumps when I put the camera on. I had the approval of my S&TA at the time, and more importantly, my mentor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #44 July 8, 2004 Maybe it's just me, but 115 jumps doesn't sound low-time to start putting a camera on your head. I remember our former DZO - many of whom thought was too strict with rules - posting guidelines that said you had to have at least 50 jumps to start wearing a camera at the DZ. Obviously, it's going to come down to the type of camera setup, your own skills and awareness and a lot of other factors. But judging just from jump numbers, 115 doesn't sound bad. Or maybe I need to spend more time over in the camera forum?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #45 July 8, 2004 Quote Or maybe I need to spend more time over in the camera forum? Or maybe just read our faq.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #46 July 8, 2004 That NZ program sounds pretty good - for acquiring the pre-levels - before strapping on a camera. Counting jump numbers is a really vague way to evaluate skills. Far wiser to follow a syllabus with specific pre-levels before attempting any new task. As for NZ graduates thinking they know everything. Hah! I am amazed that I have survived 4,400 jumps knowing as little as I do (Instructor for static-line, IAD, PFF and tandem. Master Rigger, jump pilot, national level competitor, etc.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burbleflyer 0 #47 July 20, 2004 If you can be in the skydive you could film it. If you cant.....well Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #48 July 23, 2004 QuoteNorman Kent strapped on a camera on jump #27. That does not mean it is safe...Norman is NOT your average jumper. (Of course most 100 jump wonders think THEY are not either) I'm pretty sure at Jump # 27 Norman Kent was nothing more or less than an 'average' jumper...... Ron the Mr 'Thousands' jump wonder (No disrespect to Norman Kent intended) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gordy 0 #49 August 11, 2004 Out of curiousity, out in the states do you not need to get some kind of brief before you start jumping camera.....not necesarily a sit down in a classroom, but someone at least to go over entanglements, change or reserve drills etc? Sorry being slightly british Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #50 August 11, 2004 No, Gordy, there are no official rules here. Depending on the dropzone, and whether they are USPA affiliated, I suppose we could put camera helmets on level one/Cat A jumpers if we wanted to. At my DZ, we generally know everybody, and when somebody goes to put a camera helmet on we take the initiative to talk with them about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
