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kallend 1,683
QuoteQuote
Dave, I'm glad you understand the term "Standing".
Since none of your copyrighted material was stolen, you have no “Standing” or right to be a part of any legal proceeding related to that non stolen material. This is the same mantra for many of the other posters involved.
One does not need to be a murder victim to recognize that murder is wrong.
One does not need to be a robbery victim to know that robbery is wrong.
And one does not need to be a victim of deceptive advertizing and copyright violation to know that they are also wrong and to want something done about it....
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
So today I sent a wee email to one of the skyride holdings directly from their site.
I explained to them that the photo on their home page was being used without out permission.
(A photo of the Skydive Arizona fleet over Skydive Arizona)
This photo was paid for by SDA for its use and is property of SDA. This is only one photo of many.
They reply was....Please don't spam us!(returned as spam)
Bwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
For now...there IS a spoon
I explained to them that the photo on their home page was being used without out permission.
(A photo of the Skydive Arizona fleet over Skydive Arizona)
This photo was paid for by SDA for its use and is property of SDA. This is only one photo of many.
They reply was....Please don't spam us!(returned as spam)
Bwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
For now...there IS a spoon
teason 0
Reading your posts have lead me to draw one of three conclusions;
1.) you haven't read any previous posts. The previous posts outline the legitimacy of the arguments as well as offer website addresses that show the irrefutable evidence of copyright theft.
2.) You've read the posts yet cannot grasp the complexities and immorality of theft. Decency eludes you and when you are confronted with the difficult concept of rights violations you just convince yourself that "everyone does it, so what's the big deal." Many of the injustices in history have happened with that perspective.
3.) You are close to ASC and think that you're getting back at the jerks that are unjustly slamming you and your friends. The evidence to that is the nondisclosure of your name. (think about it) If you want, I could make up 100 new user names and increase the number of posters from144 to 244 and give the illusion that more people are weighing in against skyride. As long as I don't post my real name, who'll know they're all me?.
Weak arguments and poor logic really tick me off.
If #1 is true, go back and read the damn posts. If you don't, you're posting on ignorance.
If #2 is true, then you are ignorant. If you can find the ability to form a cogent argument then keep posting but I won't hold my breath.
If #3 is true, I understand your anger and frustration but don't swim with sharks 'cause you don't like fish.
1.) you haven't read any previous posts. The previous posts outline the legitimacy of the arguments as well as offer website addresses that show the irrefutable evidence of copyright theft.
2.) You've read the posts yet cannot grasp the complexities and immorality of theft. Decency eludes you and when you are confronted with the difficult concept of rights violations you just convince yourself that "everyone does it, so what's the big deal." Many of the injustices in history have happened with that perspective.
3.) You are close to ASC and think that you're getting back at the jerks that are unjustly slamming you and your friends. The evidence to that is the nondisclosure of your name. (think about it) If you want, I could make up 100 new user names and increase the number of posters from144 to 244 and give the illusion that more people are weighing in against skyride. As long as I don't post my real name, who'll know they're all me?.
Weak arguments and poor logic really tick me off.
If #1 is true, go back and read the damn posts. If you don't, you're posting on ignorance.
If #2 is true, then you are ignorant. If you can find the ability to form a cogent argument then keep posting but I won't hold my breath.
If #3 is true, I understand your anger and frustration but don't swim with sharks 'cause you don't like fish.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
kallend 1,683
QuoteSo today I sent a wee email to one of the skyride holdings directly from their site.
I explained to them that the photo on their home page was being used without out permission.
(A photo of the Skydive Arizona fleet over Skydive Arizona)
This photo was paid for by SDA for its use and is property of SDA. This is only one photo of many.
They reply was....Please don't spam us!(returned as spam)
Bwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
For now...there IS a spoon
Hi BB
There is a picture on one of the bogus Chicago DZ sites that certainly looks just like Eloy to me. Must be the Great Illinois Desert just west of Chicago.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
John,
I apologize to you and to the rest of the DZ.com group
However, I am not now or was then emotional or reacting on emotion. I do however understand how you and other may believe that I was posting emotionally.
I apologize to you and to the rest of the DZ.com group
However, I am not now or was then emotional or reacting on emotion. I do however understand how you and other may believe that I was posting emotionally.
fincher 0
Weak arguments and poor logic really tick me off.
If #1 is true, go back and read the damn posts. If you don't, you're posting on ignorance.
If #2 is true, then you are ignorant. If you can find the ability to form a cogent argument then keep posting but I won't hold my breath.
If #3 is true, I understand your anger and frustration but don't swim with sharks 'cause you don't like fish.
If #1 is true, go back and read the damn posts. If you don't, you're posting on ignorance.
If #2 is true, then you are ignorant. If you can find the ability to form a cogent argument then keep posting but I won't hold my breath.
If #3 is true, I understand your anger and frustration but don't swim with sharks 'cause you don't like fish.
first of all, You people are so obsessed that I wouldnt be surprised if someone sent me a mail bomb but I've never hidden my name.
#1 is not true. Most of the post are redundant but I have read the majority.
#2 I just know how the legal system works, more money and effort will be spent over a few photos then they would ever be worth. I also doubt that this is comparable to a historical injustice.
That brings me back to my original point. You people are putting way too much weight on this skyride thing. I dont care how they advertise or conduct their business. Not my job too!
I know that I wont change anyones mind with my posts. You people are obviously activist and need something to fight against, its what brings meaning to your lives. Just as my voice means nothing here, your voices mean nothing also. The sooner you learn that, the better off you will be. You can spend years of your life on this but in the end what will you have gained. ( if you even win)
#3 these ARE my only post.
I've only seen ben and Cary once in my life. ( they were both very friendly) most of the people in this sport are. I will admit that I intentionally started some crap. I just wanted to get a feel for how deep this issue went. You are all part of my experiment..........or my GAME.........muwahahahahahaha!
SEE YA ! this is my last post, I have a life in the REAL world. Thanx 4 the entertainment and all the laughs!!!!!!!!! Will you miss me? Please dont cry!
Oh yea, technically, sharks are fish.
i'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your packing tent down
teason 0
I will assume you mean redundant through repetition. In any rate, no matter how many redundant or even specious posts there are doesn't change the validity of the balance.
Your argument to the first point is still weak.besides you said
When you consider that point has been addressed numerous times throughout the thread, then you are either lying about reading the thread, too simple to understand it or adding to the redundancy you just criticized.
Once again, if you had read the posts, you would know that my website was directly copied and is used with my name and logo to take business away from a portion of our own market. Besides, It doesn't matter what the legal system is capable of, how much you think you know about it or what the outcome is; it has no bearing on whether or not what Skyride is doing is right.
Finally, I understand why you are leaving the post. You can't add any relevant points, you're more interested in inciting emotion than putting forth a valid perspective and it's better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to say something and remove all doubt.
I will actually miss you posting, I enjoy trouncing your poor intellect and weak mind
Well, you see a metaphor is ...
....Hmm.... you won't probably won't understand it anyway.
Your argument to the first point is still weak.besides you said
QuoteI dont see why anyone wouldnt just join them and accept the certificates. Am i wrong or would that not just bring you more business?
When you consider that point has been addressed numerous times throughout the thread, then you are either lying about reading the thread, too simple to understand it or adding to the redundancy you just criticized.
QuoteI just know how the legal system works, more money and effort will be spent over a few photos then they would ever be worth. ... You people are obviously activist and need something to fight against, its what brings meaning to your lives.
Once again, if you had read the posts, you would know that my website was directly copied and is used with my name and logo to take business away from a portion of our own market. Besides, It doesn't matter what the legal system is capable of, how much you think you know about it or what the outcome is; it has no bearing on whether or not what Skyride is doing is right.
Finally, I understand why you are leaving the post. You can't add any relevant points, you're more interested in inciting emotion than putting forth a valid perspective and it's better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to say something and remove all doubt.
I will actually miss you posting, I enjoy trouncing your poor intellect and weak mind
QuoteOh yea, technically, sharks are fish.
Well, you see a metaphor is ...
....Hmm.... you won't probably won't understand it anyway.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
QuoteOh yea, technically, sharks are fish.
QuoteWell, you see a metaphor is ..
....Hmm.... you won't probably won't understand it anyway.
lol Tim..... UNLESS is was the double backward head up my a$$ metaphor HE was pulling?!? Hmmmmn How are things up north? missed you in palatka this year........Do you have anything I can steal from you?
Let's get the thread back on topic please - this is not the Bonfire.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Arrive Safely
John
John
MakeItHappen 15
A jumper emailed me about this course:
USPA Listing
FEB 14-20 AFF Instructor Rating Course
Atlanta Skydiving Center, Cedartown, GA
FFI: e-mail Glenn Bangs
I don't know about anyone else, but I think that any letter that comes from USPA asking SkyRide (Ben Butler and Cary Quattrochi, also owners of Atlanta Skydiving Center) to stop their deceptive practices becomes a practice in futility when the USPA President runs a certification course at ASC.
There is definitely a mixed message being sent.
From the Draft version of the Winter 2005 BOD Minutes:
Executive Committee (Chair-Glenn Bangs):
2. Group Member complaints against 1-800-SKYRIDE: Ben Butler, co-owner of SKYRIDE, asked to appear before the Executive Committee and respond to complaints heard during the DZO Conference. A copy of the letter sent to his partner, Cary Quattrocchi outlining complaints was provided to him. He was asked to address the list of grievances mentioned during the meeting and outlined in the letter dated May 19,2004. The Executive Committee asked that the complaints be addressed and rectified within 60 days. In the meantime, USPA will draft a letter, with counsel opinion on actions to be taken by the Association after the 60 day period has expired.
.
USPA Listing
FEB 14-20 AFF Instructor Rating Course
Atlanta Skydiving Center, Cedartown, GA
FFI: e-mail Glenn Bangs
I don't know about anyone else, but I think that any letter that comes from USPA asking SkyRide (Ben Butler and Cary Quattrochi, also owners of Atlanta Skydiving Center) to stop their deceptive practices becomes a practice in futility when the USPA President runs a certification course at ASC.
There is definitely a mixed message being sent.
From the Draft version of the Winter 2005 BOD Minutes:
Executive Committee (Chair-Glenn Bangs):
2. Group Member complaints against 1-800-SKYRIDE: Ben Butler, co-owner of SKYRIDE, asked to appear before the Executive Committee and respond to complaints heard during the DZO Conference. A copy of the letter sent to his partner, Cary Quattrocchi outlining complaints was provided to him. He was asked to address the list of grievances mentioned during the meeting and outlined in the letter dated May 19,2004. The Executive Committee asked that the complaints be addressed and rectified within 60 days. In the meantime, USPA will draft a letter, with counsel opinion on actions to be taken by the Association after the 60 day period has expired.
.
.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker
billvon 2,477
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
Several posts were deleted. Do not use this forum to attack other people.
kallend 1,683
QuoteA jumper emailed me about this course:
USPA Listing
FEB 14-20 AFF Instructor Rating Course
Atlanta Skydiving Center, Cedartown, GA
FFI: e-mail Glenn Bangs
I don't know about anyone else, but I think that any letter that comes from USPA asking SkyRide (Ben Butler and Cary Quattrochi, also owners of Atlanta Skydiving Center) to stop their deceptive practices becomes a practice in futility when the USPA President runs a certification course at ASC.
There is definitely a mixed message being sent.
.
"The business of America is business", Calvin Coolidge
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
marks 0
QuoteA jumper emailed me about this course:
USPA Listing
FEB 14-20 AFF Instructor Rating Course
Atlanta Skydiving Center, Cedartown, GA
FFI: e-mail Glenn Bangs
I don't know about anyone else, but I think that any letter that comes from USPA asking SkyRide (Ben Butler and Cary Quattrochi, also owners of Atlanta Skydiving Center) to stop their deceptive practices becomes a practice in futility when the USPA President runs a certification course at ASC.
There is definitely a mixed message being sent.
From the Draft version of the Winter 2005 BOD Minutes:
Executive Committee (Chair-Glenn Bangs):
2. Group Member complaints against 1-800-SKYRIDE: Ben Butler, co-owner of SKYRIDE, asked to appear before the Executive Committee and respond to complaints heard during the DZO Conference. A copy of the letter sent to his partner, Cary Quattrocchi outlining complaints was provided to him. He was asked to address the list of grievances mentioned during the meeting and outlined in the letter dated May 19,2004. The Executive Committee asked that the complaints be addressed and rectified within 60 days. In the meantime, USPA will draft a letter, with counsel opinion on actions to be taken by the Association after the 60 day period has expired.
.
the aff rating course is for jumpers, not asc or skyride. i got my aff rating AT asc. through glen bangs also. jumpers hire him to come there for THEM not the drop zone.
and the last time i checked, the employees at asc are all uspa members, so why should they not have a chance to get a rating at there home dz. now your barking up the wrong tree..
winsor 192
QuoteA jumper emailed me about this course:
USPA Listing
FEB 14-20 AFF Instructor Rating Course
Atlanta Skydiving Center, Cedartown, GA
FFI: e-mail Glenn Bangs
I don't know about anyone else, but I think that any letter that comes from USPA asking SkyRide (Ben Butler and Cary Quattrochi, also owners of Atlanta Skydiving Center) to stop their deceptive practices becomes a practice in futility when the USPA President runs a certification course at ASC.
There is definitely a mixed message being sent.
From the Draft version of the Winter 2005 BOD Minutes:
Executive Committee (Chair-Glenn Bangs):
2. Group Member complaints against 1-800-SKYRIDE: Ben Butler, co-owner of SKYRIDE, asked to appear before the Executive Committee and respond to complaints heard during the DZO Conference. A copy of the letter sent to his partner, Cary Quattrocchi outlining complaints was provided to him. He was asked to address the list of grievances mentioned during the meeting and outlined in the letter dated May 19,2004. The Executive Committee asked that the complaints be addressed and rectified within 60 days. In the meantime, USPA will draft a letter, with counsel opinion on actions to be taken by the Association after the 60 day period has expired.
In my line of work, roles, responsibilities and scope of work are clearly defined. This does not seem to be the case w.r.t. USPA.
As I understand it, USPA is a club, at the service of the membership. I'm kind of fuzzy as to quite how the Group Membership program fits into the picture, since DZs have evolved from clubs into commercial enterprises since the GM program started, and it seems to have become a trade organization with some clout, to some extent funded by the general membership.
USPA's actions in a variety of cases have struck me as being erratic and/or capricious. One person was banned for life for doing something, and someone else did not even get a slap on the wrist for doing something an order of magnitude worse. Sometimes the leadership will get sanctimonious and self-righteous, and other times they will wink and shine it on. I can speculate as to why, but it would not do any good.
I am quite familiar with Skyride, and I am not impressed. I think it is an issue for Law Enforcement to sort out.
ASC, however, is another issue altogether. Although ASC and Skyride share common ownership, they are separate entities. Even if the business practices of Skyride result in prison sentences for the parties deemed responsible, I know of no reason that this turn of events should affect ASC or its relationship with USPA.
I am not saying that I approve of the practices of Skyride, I am saying that you have to follow the rules if you wish to fault someone else for breaking them.
If ASC conducts their operations in accordance with BSRs, they have met their obligation to USPA. The GBI, FTC and other LEOs don't concern themselves with BSRs, and USPA should leave issues of law to the organizations tasked to their enforcement.
Blue skies,
Winsor
AndyMan 7
Quite honestly, I'm really quite disapointed that you think this is the slightest bit relevant.
Personally object to their business practices all you want, and in fact I'll chime in with you on this case. But when a director of the USPA starts interfering with legit attempt to recruit and train instructors, that person has a gross misconception about the USPA's mission.
_Am
Personally object to their business practices all you want, and in fact I'll chime in with you on this case. But when a director of the USPA starts interfering with legit attempt to recruit and train instructors, that person has a gross misconception about the USPA's mission.
_Am
__
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
PhreeZone 15
Winsor and Andy, I fully agree with both of you. Skyride is the issue here, not ASC or the people associated with ASC. ASC has their own issues but thats because most of their website is stolen copywritten materials but thats not part of this issue.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
Scrumpot 1
Quote...but I've never hidden my name.
Real Name: No name entered.
Email: No email entered.
Jump Profile
Home DZ: No home dropzone entered.
Gear
Container: No container entered.
Main Canopy: No main entered.
Reserve Canopy: No reserve entered.
AAD: No AAD entered.
Forum Activity
Status: Registered User
Registered: Jan 16, 2005, 8:04 PM
Last Logon: Feb 20, 2005, 11:15 PM
Local Time: Mar 2, 2005, 1:43 PM
Posts: 7 (0.2 per day)
-----------------------
Huh?
coitus non circum - Moab Stone
QuoteWinsor and Andy, I fully agree with both of you. Skyride is the issue here, not ASC or the people associated with ASC. ASC has their own issues but thats because most of their website is stolen copywritten materials but thats not part of this issue.
There were jumpers from ASC and other DZs that were afraid this would turn into a witch hunt. It would be sad if it did. The focus needs to stay on the issue at hand.
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
winsor 192
QuoteYou people are putting way too much weight on this skyride thing. I dont care how they advertise or conduct their business.
Skydiving is a very small market and community. The effect that Skyride has is poisonous, and affects everyone in the sport to an extent that would appear disproportionate to someone who is not paying attention.
QuoteI know that I wont change anyones mind with my posts.
Don't be so humble. You have convinced many people that Skyride is a bad thing who were previously on the fence.
QuoteI've only seen ben and Cary once in my life. ( they were both very friendly) most of the people in this sport are.
I have known Ben and Cary for a long time, and like them both. I have been impressed by how hard they have worked to make ASC a first-class operation. I have seen others bust their hump and not quite make it, so I understand how unforgiving is the market in which they have excelled.
Having said that, it concerns me that they have crossed the line between aggressive marketing and legally proscribed behavior. The list of business practices in which Skyride is engaged that would concern a Bunco Squad is extensive. People have received long prison sentences for lesser infractions, and I think it is a waste to see them place themselves at risk of such consequences.
If they could see fit to conduct their skydiving-related businesses in accordance with the law, and prevail on the basis of a superior product and more effective (but honest and legal) marketing, I say bully for them. It can, and has, been done, and I think they can do so as well.
If they are imprisoned for their activities it will be a waste - but if that is what it takes to halt the transgressions of Skyride, so be it.
Blue skies,
Winsor
The following was copied form an email that’s circulating to just about every DZO in the country. I removed the names simply because I didn’t have specific permission to post the message, but I figured that if they were willing to send the message to 200+ email addresses that it shouldn’t be a problem.
Also, received a call form Peter Linton-Smith who’s a Milwaukee area skydiver, and reporter for the FOX affiliate in Milwaukee. He’s doing a freelance article for Skydiving Mag on the Skyride issue. I had a nice conversation with him, and also suggested that he take a look at this thread.
Martin
I received a call from an irate customer in December stating that this drop zone had ruined the surprise of a tandem gift certificate for Holiday. She was insistent that "Mary" from our office called at 9:10 PM and left a voice message which ruined Christmas since her husband had listen to the recording. (We aren't open at 9:00PM nor do we have a staff member named Mary) After having spent several minutes listening to the customer's complaint, she offered that she had saved the voice mail and offered to play it for me, which she did. The number left was 1-800-SKYRIDE. I informed the customer that since we do not accept the certificates, she could call her credit card company and refuse the charges. I then offered her a tandem skydive at this location which was considerably less than what she had initially paid. This madness needs to stop.
xxx
A customer here had the same experience back IN January, told that we accepted the certificates and we do not. 800-SKYRIDE tried to get us to accept it 'just this time' which seems to be the latest scam they have going.
Anyway I also suggested that she go to the credit card Co., not sure if she ever got her money back, but I suggested she raise hell about it. BBB.org has unsatisfactory records for SKYRIDE and I gave her that as well for ammunition to get a refund.
Beware, thanks
xxx
Received an email from someone whom purchased a gift certificate from 1-800-skyrides... After she did this she emailed us to book-in... When I told her that we did not accept their gift certificates (she was told we did)... I advised her to call them right back and cancel the order... They refused... She emailed me back to see if I would accept the gift certificate this time... I told her that we could not... I advised her that she should contact her credit card company to see what she should do... That was 29 January 2005... We just heard from her today 3 March 2005, she is still waiting for her money from these people.... She told me that the gift certificate came and they did not accept it, but the charge appeared on their bill... We are keeping open communication with her and they still want to jump with us this summer...We only wish there was some way we could get these people to CALL US FIRST.....
Just thought we would let all of you know about this latest happening....Any Thoughts....
xxx
Also, received a call form Peter Linton-Smith who’s a Milwaukee area skydiver, and reporter for the FOX affiliate in Milwaukee. He’s doing a freelance article for Skydiving Mag on the Skyride issue. I had a nice conversation with him, and also suggested that he take a look at this thread.
Martin
I received a call from an irate customer in December stating that this drop zone had ruined the surprise of a tandem gift certificate for Holiday. She was insistent that "Mary" from our office called at 9:10 PM and left a voice message which ruined Christmas since her husband had listen to the recording. (We aren't open at 9:00PM nor do we have a staff member named Mary) After having spent several minutes listening to the customer's complaint, she offered that she had saved the voice mail and offered to play it for me, which she did. The number left was 1-800-SKYRIDE. I informed the customer that since we do not accept the certificates, she could call her credit card company and refuse the charges. I then offered her a tandem skydive at this location which was considerably less than what she had initially paid. This madness needs to stop.
xxx
A customer here had the same experience back IN January, told that we accepted the certificates and we do not. 800-SKYRIDE tried to get us to accept it 'just this time' which seems to be the latest scam they have going.
Anyway I also suggested that she go to the credit card Co., not sure if she ever got her money back, but I suggested she raise hell about it. BBB.org has unsatisfactory records for SKYRIDE and I gave her that as well for ammunition to get a refund.
Beware, thanks
xxx
Received an email from someone whom purchased a gift certificate from 1-800-skyrides... After she did this she emailed us to book-in... When I told her that we did not accept their gift certificates (she was told we did)... I advised her to call them right back and cancel the order... They refused... She emailed me back to see if I would accept the gift certificate this time... I told her that we could not... I advised her that she should contact her credit card company to see what she should do... That was 29 January 2005... We just heard from her today 3 March 2005, she is still waiting for her money from these people.... She told me that the gift certificate came and they did not accept it, but the charge appeared on their bill... We are keeping open communication with her and they still want to jump with us this summer...We only wish there was some way we could get these people to CALL US FIRST.....
Just thought we would let all of you know about this latest happening....Any Thoughts....
xxx
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.
AC DZ
AC DZ
posting controversial or "hot topic" content like this anonymously (with a blank profile), and having only registered a couple of days ago you bring a lack of credibility to this thread - we don't know who you are. It not as much about the jump numbers and quals, but who you are. In the history of this thread we have seen people who registered here in the forums and remained anonymous simply to flame those who have contributed to the conversation. One of them was posting from the computer at ASC - yes, your IP Address is visible to Moderators.
dropzonefool:
when you post from emotion you lose your objectivity and your posts become harder to understand and fail to contribute to the thread . . . your "Really" post does nothing to forward this issue.
Both of you:
Personal attacks are not allowed in the forums. Period. Consider this your one warning. On top of that, the thread has become effectively hijacked because of this personal issue between you two. If you want to continue your pissing contest, take it to PMs.
John
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