What can we do about Skyride?

[sid 1]

[reply

Yeah, I know and you’re absolutely correct. I’m sure Cary and Ben have had the “stick” waved at them quite a lot over the last year or two, and they will continue doing exactly as they please until they’re hit with the stick a few times (the “stick” I’m referring to is figurative, although they may have had a literal stick waved at them as well). USPA taking this action is a step in the right direction.

[PhreeZone 15]

Funny this should pop back to the top today. I had the pleasure of having my Regional Director Sherry Butcher (WONDERFUL RD!!!) call me and talk to me for over 15 minutes about this issue.

The USPA is consulting directly with a legal team on exactly what actions can be taken. The very first action that had to be taken no matter what is a letter had to be sent to Skyride/ASC stating exactly what the organzation has an issue with. I know there were 4 main points in this letter. They addressed my main concerns all around. They were warned in the letter that they have 60 days to resolve all the issues or legal action might be taken against them. By that time the USPA legal team will have an answer on exactly what can be done in legal terms with the members money accourding to the USPA governance manual.

On a totally seperate front a group of DZO's pledged over $25000 towards their own legal effort to stop the deframation against their companies and to get Skyride to stop acting as a booking agent that is affiliated with thier DZ. This action is on hold until the ruling from the USPA lawyers comes back.

Overall... Skyride was a MAJOR topic of conversation in the general meeting, the committee meetings and just in general. If any BOD members were not aware of it before this meeting, they now are only too firmilar with it.

Jan, THANK YOU!!!!! for your crusade against Skyride's business practices.

One funny thing... I guess Ben stood up and told the BOD that he was completely unaware that any copyrighted material was used in any of their websites. He claimed it was all bought from a photo house.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[bbarnhouse 0]

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I guess Ben stood up and told the BOD that he was completely unaware that any copyrighted material was used in any of their websites. He claimed it was all bought from a photo house

Intersting that Additionally I had a phone conversation with Ben and asked him for a meeting while at Symposium at the request of Mr. Hill. Ben offered that he would be more than happy to meet with me, but he was on his way to the airport. He also welcomed me to call him on his private cell anytime to discuss the issues.
Ummmmmm ok....beep,beep,beep,beep,beep.
Oh and a special THANK YOU to the first DZO that donated...5 grand to the cause. I won't list your name...but you know who you are, and I would be pleased to jump at your DZ anytime...well when it isnt raining

[Greene 0]

We agree with you on Sherri Butcher
We were one of the first that spoke out against Skyride with our RD!

We would like to donate, however we have never been contacted for a donation. I talked to Sherry over a year ago about SKYRIDE. We were on the same page. I told her what we thought she and all DZO's should do . She did follow my advise.
However, we have never been contacted for any monies to fight this cause or where to send money.

Are non group members of USPA going to be excluded from donating? I do not think that is the case. However someone should contact ALL DZ's and all should have been notified.

We would like to know why we have never been contacted by our RD for a donation, after our lenghty coversation about skyride and what to do.

I am sure our donation will be accepted, however we have no idea as to where to send the money and who to address it to for safe keeping for this fund only. How many other non USPA DZ's have not been notified and contacted about this effort?

Jim and Lee West

[PhreeZone 15]

Lee, I think that at the Regional DZO meeting that Sherry has in March this issue is going to come back up Actually I know it might come up

I don't think that the DZO lawsuit is even past the pledge part yet. No money is collected yet was my impression. There is the discussion of an email going out to all the DZO's detailing the situation and asking for more support from the DZO's. I'll make sure Sherry puts you on that list.

Are there any other non GM's out there that want to be on the list?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Greene 0]

How would we know the number of non USPA DZ's who might wish to donate? That would not be up to me to find them.

I just want to help this kind of practice go away.

There are others out there. Just creeping forward unnoticed at this point

Lee

[dbattman 0]

Copywrite violations are only a small part of the issue. Doing business under the guise of being another legitimate entity is fraud. Putting a stamp on them and mailing them through the Postal Service is mail fraud- that's why con artists use couriers. Selling a customer a tandem at a dropzone knowing they will not be honored (i.e. Eloy) is theft by deception. These are criminal acts, plain and simple.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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How would we know the number of non USPA DZ's who might wish to donate? That would not be up to me to find them.

I just want to help this kind of practice go away.

There are others out there. Just creeping forward unnoticed at this point

Lee

Lee,

While you are rounding up non-group members, you may want to contact soaring and balloon companies that have been going thru the same thing. I know that at least one soaring company posted in this thread - might be a good place to start.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[BillyVance 34]

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The USPA is consulting directly with a legal team on exactly what actions can be taken. The very first action that had to be taken no matter what is a letter had to be sent to Skyride/ASC stating exactly what the organzation has an issue with. I know there were 4 main points in this letter. They addressed my main concerns all around. They were warned in the letter that they have 60 days to resolve all the issues or legal action might be taken against them. By that time the USPA legal team will have an answer on exactly what can be done in legal terms with the members money accourding to the USPA governance manual.

Totally awesome! I am so glad to see something is finally going to get started for real. I know we can't take anything for granted and this is not going to be resolved in days or weeks, but months and maybe years. It's time for Ben and Cary and abetting associates to get a HUGE dose of justice!

Blue Skies
Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Does anyone know how long it generally takes USPA to post the BOD meeting minutes?

About 30 days.
BTW - what was said is not in the minutes - only what was done (aka Motions)
read Robert's Rules FFI


I just want to clarify something about the USPA actions towards SkyRide or any other similar type organization or individual.

1. SkyRide is NOT a USPA Group member.
2. The owners of SkyRide, Cary Quattrochi and Ben Butler, are individual members of USPA. They have BOTH appeared before the BOD, defending SkyRide operations in the past 24 months.
3. Altanta Skydiving Center (ASC), Alabama Skydiving Center (ASC) and Skydive Pennridge are Group members of USPA.

USPA disciplinary actions include revoking or suspending memberships and/or ratings.

USPA cannot take any action against SkyRide as SkyRide is NOT a USPA member.

USPA can take action against individual members.

To make a VERY LONG STORY, SHORT, USPA at most can revoke the individual memberships of Cary Q and Ben B and the Group memberships of the DZs that they own (Altanta Skydiving Center (ASC), Alabama Skydiving Center (ASC) and Skydive Pennridge).

Let's ASSUME that the memberships have been revoked.

Does this mean that SkyRide conducts itself respectably??

USPA can only revoke membership. USPA cannot change the behavior of third parties.

If you are looking to USPA to change the behavior of SkyRide, I suggest you look elsewhere.

[Disclaimer: Glenn - This is my personal opinion - no need to quote it in a BOD meeting. Deal with it.]

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[CSpenceFLY 1]

As said before the simple solution is for the certificates not to be accepted.Thats up to the DZOs.

[slug 1]

Hi MTH

Thanks for the straight scoop. Your a credit to the USPA members that voted you in office again. Hope you run again and....
R.I.P.

[skydived19006 4]

Quote

Quote

Does anyone know how long it generally takes USPA to post the BOD meeting minutes?

About 30 days.
BTW - what was said is not in the minutes - only what was done (aka Motions)
read Robert's Rules FFI


I just want to clarify something about the USPA actions towards SkyRide or any other similar type organization or individual.

1. SkyRide is NOT a USPA Group member.
2. The owners of SkyRide, Cary Quattrochi and Ben Butler, are individual members of USPA. They have BOTH appeared before the BOD, defending SkyRide operations in the past 24 months.
3. Altanta Skydiving Center (ASC), Alabama Skydiving Center (ASC) and Skydive Pennridge are Group members of USPA.

USPA disciplinary actions include revoking or suspending memberships and/or ratings.

USPA cannot take any action against SkyRide as SkyRide is NOT a USPA member.

USPA can take action against individual members.

To make a VERY LONG STORY, SHORT, USPA at most can revoke the individual memberships of Cary Q and Ben B and the Group memberships of the DZs that they own (Altanta Skydiving Center (ASC), Alabama Skydiving Center (ASC) and Skydive Pennridge).

Let's ASSUME that the memberships have been revoked.

Does this mean that SkyRide conducts itself respectably??

USPA can only revoke membership. USPA cannot change the behavior of third parties.

If you are looking to USPA to change the behavior of SkyRide, I suggest you look elsewhere.

[Disclaimer: Glenn - This is my personal opinion - no need to quote it in a BOD meeting. Deal with it.]

Thanks Jan!
I did get the basic information on the election results in Parachutist. It simply showed the low/high vote numbers for the national directors.

You’re obviously correct regarding the meeting minutes. Guess if I want to know what was said, I had better plan on attending the meetings.

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[skydived19006 4]

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I believe the lack of cooperation has helped to cause this.Everyone needs to get their head out of their asses and do whatever it takes to put this thing in check.Have a nice day

In my opinion the one reason Skyride does the level of business that they do is that they reach some of our customers before we do (not to mention that a lot of the customers are lazy, don’t do their research, and are easily lured into the “trap”). I doubt that anyone would ever go through a “middle man” if they know what they end up knowing after going to the DZ and looking at the “real” pricing. I doubt that Skyride gets many referrals form past customers. My point is that if the DZs did a better job with their marketing at least the customer would find them at the same time they came across the middle man.

I recently sent an email out to most (the ones I had email addressed for) DZs asking them if they would like to participate in a program to “trade links” with other DZs. One of the ranking criteria that the search engines use is the number of links found that point to a particular site. Skyride has the advantage of cross linking hundreds of sites, therefore increasing their search ranking. My thought is that if DZs cross link to each other we could achieve the same thing. I made a separate page specifically for “link trading”, feel free to take a look http://www.aircapitaldropzone.com/linktrade.htm listed links are the drop zones that have agreed to trade. Disclaimer: I can not guarantee that all listed are “non Skyride” DZs.

I’ll put up links to Skydive the Farm, and Skydive Coastal Carolinas tonight (2/2/05).

I’m also using “pay per click” advertising, which Skyride employs so affectively, but that’s another story.

Martin
AC DZ

Edited to make it ckicky

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[PhreeZone 15]

Really quick question to everyone reading along at home...

How many of you have contacted either your RD or any of the ND's to let them know how you feel about this issue?

I recently learned that out of my ENTIRE region... my RD was only directly contacted by 1 person about this issue... me. I know some of the ND's got a whole lot more letters then the RD's did... but if you want to do anything either as a USPA Member, or a Group Member please contact your USPA Reps and let them know your feelings (Pro or Con) about this issue and anything else on your mind about skydiving. Its one thing to come on here and post about it, but what are you really doing about it? I know some people have contacted Attorny Generals offices and thats great, but tell your RD's about that too. Give them info to make decisions for the USPA.

*/rant

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Really quick question to everyone reading along at home...

How many of you have contacted either your RD or any of the ND's to let them know how you feel about this issue?

I've done that with my RD over ASC's puppet DZ at Pell City for other issues. He didn't like them very much either and even actively pressed the issues at every BOD meeting he attended.

I agree with PhreeZone... RDs are our representatives. Their job is to serve us, the little people. If many of us have a specific problem and enough of them tell their RD about it, the RD's job is to listen and do something about it, mediate the problem, or go to the BOD meeting and raise the issue there.

Blue Skies
Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[slotperfect 7]

As of today, Raeford Parachute Center no longer accepts 1-800-SKYRIDE certificates.


I'm not completely sure about the rest of the DZs in North Carolina . . . I do know that neither CSS nor Adrenaline Air Sports accept them, but I'm not sure about Skydive Parkton or Skydive Coastal Carolinas.

Arrive Safely

John

[bbarnhouse 0]

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As of today, Raeford Parachute Center no longer accepts 1-800-SKYRIDE certificates.

Well damn good on them!

[Greene 0]

YIPPIE, yippies kai YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lee and Jim West.
if worked again

• Quote

[kallend 1,623]

I did. Also my state AG's office which showed zero interest.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BadDog 0]

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I highly doubt it. Dave and the crew from the old TAS picked up and worked hard to open up after TAS closed its doors. They are a very small crew out there.

I think they have just decided to open themselfes up to other revenue sources by trying to earn money through the Google ads. Typically you can get paid a few $ a month if people are actually clicking on the ads on your page. Also I think it moves you up a touch in some of the google rankings.

PhreeZone is correct. The "links" you saw were just Google ads (which we have dropped by the way). Skyride is in no way affiliated with Skydive Columbus Ohio (a point that we had specifically made in the web site but that was apparently overlooked) and Skyride has no ownership interest in our DZ. Although we took their certificates last year in order to get our DZ off the ground, we will not be taking them this year. We will also be a USPA Group Member this year (now that Sallie is old enough to keep us in compliance with the BSRs).

[dropzonefool 0]

Well thats good to hear! Apparently we are still taking there cetificates. I had the oppertunity to jump two skyrides Saturday. They were both Laywers and I over saw them laughing at Bill Booth's video and the waiver. Skyride pay's our DZ $145 for skyrides. Our regular price is $180. They paid Skyride over $200 for their jumps. Skyride makes a nice profit. Another guy showed up and stated he wanted to become "certified". We gonna turn in his certificate as if he jumped tandem, but in exchange we gave him a FJC and 3 S/L jumps. IE....Our DZO is willing to work with Newbie's who get screwed, It not our fault!

Now let look at this from an independant view. IF you as T-I goes out to a bar and gets 5 tandem jumpers to go out to your DZ. The DZO says "I don't care what you charge them as long as you give me $45 ( 2 slots + gear) how does that make you any different from Skyride? It dosen't. If your DZO isn't willing to give you that, then another will, sure the name may change but the IDEA of Skyride will always be there. Skyride is guilty of theft of pictures and email accounts this has been proven by US! They should be shut down. Others will follow! We as Instructors should form a union "The International Brotherhood of Skydiving Instructors"..... DZO'S cannot operate without us!

[skydiverjerry 0]

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Now let look at this from an independant view. IF you as T-I goes out to a bar and gets 5 tandem jumpers to go out to your DZ. The DZO says "I don't care what you charge them as long as you give me $45 ( 2 slots + gear) how does that make you any different from Skyride? It dosen't. If your DZO isn't willing to give you that, then another will, sure the name may change but the IDEA of Skyride will always be there.

i think there is a diffrence between an instructor chatting to some kids without using any form of advertising persuading them to jump and a company set up deliberatly to steel copywright material in the interest of proffit. the diffrence is intent.
what skyride are doing is moraly and ethicaly reprehensible, the more i read this thread the more disgusted i get at a company that basicaly rips people of this damages our sport when the customer finds out they leave with a bad tast in the mouth.

i would like to here that sombody takes up the torch and takes these guys to court go get em shut em down.
sorry for the rant

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

[op5e 0]

I do see someone getting mates to jump and the DZ not making as much profit being very different to skyride. For one a TM would most likely not charge more than what the DZ is charging and hence the customer is not getting screwed. And the mates are probably aware that they are not buying a normal TM jump and that he is doing this as a favor (not that it matters much). Also the TM you would hope would be from a local DZ or at least let them know others are out there, and hence the customer would not have to drive for ages to use the valid certificate. But that is what is great about opinions, everyones got one.

So if I read your email correctly (and the others in this thread) I would see a TM paying for a slot is very different than Skyride.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Well thats good to hear! Apparently we are still taking there cetificates. I had the oppertunity to jump two skyrides Saturday. They were both Laywers and I over saw them laughing at Bill Booth's video and the waiver. Skyride pay's our DZ $145 for skyrides. Our regular price is $180. They paid Skyride over $200 for their jumps. Skyride makes a nice profit. Another guy showed up and stated he wanted to become "certified". We gonna turn in his certificate as if he jumped tandem, but in exchange we gave him a FJC and 3 S/L jumps. IE....Our DZO is willing to work with Newbie's who get screwed, It not our fault!

Now let look at this from an independant view. IF you as T-I goes out to a bar and gets 5 tandem jumpers to go out to your DZ. The DZO says "I don't care what you charge them as long as you give me $45 ( 2 slots + gear) how does that make you any different from Skyride? It dosen't. If your DZO isn't willing to give you that, then another will, sure the name may change but the IDEA of Skyride will always be there. Skyride is guilty of theft of pictures and email accounts this has been proven by US! They should be shut down. Others will follow! We as Instructors should form a union "The International Brotherhood of Skydiving Instructors"..... DZO'S cannot operate without us!

The essential differences are (1) the TM who talks to his mates in the bar is bringing new business, not re-directing business that would probably have come along anyway (2) the TM is not pretending to be something he is not. Skyride advertizes non-existent dropzones to take business away from real ones, (3) the TM is unlikely to charge his mates a higher price than they would otherwise have paid had they gone directly to the DZ. Nice people don't rip-off their mates.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.