pilotdave 0 #726 December 28, 2004 QuoteI really don't want to comment on the bait/switch but understand the benefits to up-jumpers. Realistically, it makes all the difference for having an all-A/C, carpeted environment versus packing in an airplane hangar. I'd rather pack on grass at an honest DZ than hire a free packer at a DZ that scams the public and steals from skydivers. Why don't you want to comment on the bait and switch tactics? THAT is one of the main arguments here, not that ASC doesn't have a comfy packing area. I realize this is a very long thread and many people only hear what they want to hear, but I just don't understand how anyone that reads even a little of this thread can argue that skyride is good for anybody other than its owners and employees and jumpers at ASC and the other DZs they own. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #727 December 28, 2004 You guys ever think that maybe you're shooting you "cause" in the foot, when you attack and brow beat anyone who may differ in opinion in just the slightest? I'm pretty tired of it, that's for sure. "Broken record" comes to mind.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #728 December 28, 2004 WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?? can someone tell me in maximum 5 lines what is wrong with skyride? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #729 December 28, 2004 Danny Page's contact info is posted here on the USPA website's BOD contact list.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #730 December 28, 2004 QuoteWHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?? can someone tell me in maximum 5 lines what is wrong with skyride? 1. Skyride and its principles have used copyrighted artwork without proper compensation to the artists. Skyride continues to ignore cease and decist letters from said artists. 2. Skyride practices bait/switch sales in their call center (read: A tandem gift cert is $x. OK, now that I've got your credit card, there is a B fee, C fee, D fee, etc. bringing your total gift certificate to $z.) 3. Skyride will deceive their customers by advising there is no dropzone within X amount of miles and you need to drive to X DZ to use our gift certificate. Customer can drive by several, closer, DZs on their way to a DZ that accepts Skyride gift certs. 4. Skyride has a multitude of 'fake' dropzones that are 'in your neighborhood' when in fact they do not even exist in the state. 5. Skyride also has stolen copyrighted website designs. (see: original - 339jump.com, copy - skydivingal.com or SkydiveMS.com) (depending on your browser, these may spill over 5 lines but the points are there)----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brierebecca 0 #731 December 28, 2004 he is definitely around a lot at SA. I was just wondering why he hasn't weighed in on this issue. also, lawrocket, I thought that trademark stuff was regulated by the FTC. If it is, it is impossible to bring a suit in federal court under the FTC, you have to sue under the "little FTC act" of the state wherein the act is committed. Am I right about this? If it's not under the FTC, then that doesn't apply. But if one were to sue under federal subject matter jurisdiction, state lines don't matter at all, I guess that's why I was confused when you said that the acts being in different states bump the case to federal court. That rings a bell in my mind as being diversity Jx. But I really wanted to know what you thought about the monopolistic trade practices idea. I've got a couple of the lawyers in the US attorney's office glancing over a little memo I've got going on the subject, so I'll let you know what they think when they get back with me. Brie"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #732 December 28, 2004 QuoteYou guys ever think that maybe you're shooting you "cause" in the foot, when you attack and brow beat anyone who may differ in opinion in just the slightest? I'm pretty tired of it, that's for sure. "Broken record" comes to mind. A difference of opinion on the business model? Sure that is annoying. However, I wanted him to explain how he could justify HOW they are running the business. If someone can give me a damn good reason on why theft is ok, I'll let it drop._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #733 December 28, 2004 QuoteWHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?? can someone tell me in maximum 5 lines what is wrong with skyride? False advertizing (ads for dropzones that don't exist) False advertizing (pictures that AREN'T of the DZ being advertized, or its aircraft or facilities) Bait and switch Copyright violation Good enough?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #734 December 28, 2004 Quote You guys ever think that maybe you're shooting you "cause" in the foot, when you attack and brow beat anyone who may differ in opinion in just the slightest? No. I didn't see someone offering a different opinion. I saw someone avoiding the hard questions only to once again let us all know that ASC is a great DZ. I don't have a "cause" to shoot in the foot anyway. Skyride isn't going to go away because everybody will start refusing to jump at ASC until they shut down skyride. This whole mess is going to be settled in a much uglier, more expensive way, far from the dropzone.com forums. When somebody from ASC will speak about the bait and switch tactics in an objective way that makes any sense, maybe I'll say "oh, i get it, and i fully agree with you. Now I understand why skyride's tactics make sense and are a wonderful thing for me and my dropzone and all other dropzones across the country. thank you for clearing up this issue for me." Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #735 December 28, 2004 Read your January Parachutist when you get it... page 9, letter right in the middle.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #736 December 28, 2004 QuoteRead your January Parachutist when you get it... page 9, letter right in the middle. And January issue of Skydiving Magazine, page 5, 4th article in the “Maybe You've Heard†column. USPA is considering steps to counter Cary's aggressive marketing tactics... Go for it USPA! Blue skies, Billy"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #737 December 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteRead your January Parachutist when you get it... page 9, letter right in the middle. And January issue of Skydiving Magazine, page 5, 4th article in the “Maybe You've Heard†column. USPA is considering steps to counter Cary's aggressive marketing tactics... Go for it USPA! Blue skies, Billy Anyone care to post those here for those that don't get either magazine?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #738 December 28, 2004 I copied this from a Post on Rec.Skydiving: Officials of the USPA are considering taking steps to counter the aggresswive web-based marketing campaign of Cary Quattrocchi. Several years ago, the Georgia based jumper began selling tandem jumps via the web, directing customers to DZ's both real and "virtual"(Skydiving 243). Quattrocchi is co-owner of Atlanta Skydiving Center in Georgetown Ga. His program has continued to expand and now includes reselling other DZ's tandem jumps at premium prices. ; that program operates under the name 1-800-skyride and is nationwide. By buying ads on various internet search engines and by creating phantom DZ's-- 1-800-Sky-ride is reportedly grabbing a market share from other DZ's, most of which don't advertise much. USPA is considering launching an internet ad campaign of its own that would compete with 1-800-Sky-ride and funnel customers to its group members. Skydiving Magazine January 2005 Volum 24, Number 6 Issue 282 Page 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #739 December 28, 2004 Haven't gotten my Skydiving Mag yet...let me type the other up... why don't you get parachutist anyway? SDC is a USPA DZ last I checked.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #740 December 28, 2004 QuoteThis whole mess is going to be settled in a much uglier, more expensive way, far from the dropzone.com forums. Then why are there 700+ posts of babble about it?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #741 December 28, 2004 QuoteOfficials of the USPA are considering taking steps to counter the aggresswive If true, another example of the donward spiral of the USPA. Think I'll join the AOPA. They may be our future.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #742 December 28, 2004 QuoteUSPA is considering launching an internet ad campaign of its own that would compete with 1-800-Sky-ride and funnel customers to its group members. Oh, that sounds MUCH better. Instead of fighting, they're gonna try to compete? Don't get me wrong, that's good news for group member DZs. But it's not the kind of action I was hoping for. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #743 December 28, 2004 QuoteThen why are there 700+ posts of babble about it? Cause people like to babble? Not sure what your point is. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #744 December 28, 2004 Quote thought that trademark stuff was regulated by the FTC The Lanham Act (15 USC, Chapter 22) provides remedies for violation. Federal (and state) courts can rule. Remedies are available, and it provides the standards for court hearings. It's amazing. This seems to be about trademarks, copyright, business practices, etc. From what I've read (if true), someone can throw lots of causes of action at them, and plenty will apparently stick. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #745 December 29, 2004 From Jan 2005 Parachutist, Page 9 Letters: Quote Don't Support Dishonesty I was rather surprised by Chris Needel's "Capital Commentary" in the October issue. Hew wrote that USPA "should be there to help" when drop zones use fraudulent or deceptive practices to cheat regular and first time jumpers. Apparently, that's a minority opinion among our leadership, since USPA is offering no such help. In fact, the board of directors has consistently refused to take any action at all against such operations, regardless of how well documented the offenses are. USPA exists to protect its members, both current and prospective. It's time for USPA to step up to the plate and start protecting its individual members (and the general public) from fraud, even if all it does is revoke the Group Memberships of such organizations and the individual memberships of the owners. Having said all that, we individual members still bear the majority of the blame for the continued existence of these crooked DZs and other operations. We can tell ourselves that we don't get involved in drop zone politics, but this isn't a matter of politics. It's a matter of morality, and at some level, we know that's true -- we choose to ignore it when it's inconvenient. If you jump at a drop zone that you know is cheating people, then you are rewarding the owners for cheating people. If you work at such an operation in any capacity at all, then you are an accomplice to that cheating, even if you don't personally cheat people. And don't give me lines like, "But I'd have to drive farther to go to an honest drop zone," or, "But they have the kind of plane I want to jump out of." If we all stop supporting operations like these, they'll go out of business. The if there's no other DZ in the area, someone will start a new, honest one. If there's already an honest DZ in the area, the increased business there will allow it to get the bigger plane that you want. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Gary Shaffer, D-21341 Fairburn, Georgia At press time, USPA leadership was considering disciplinary action options under USPA Governance Manual Section 1-6. -N. Koreen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #746 December 29, 2004 QuoteUSPA is considering launching an internet ad campaign of its own that would compete with 1-800-Sky-ride and funnel customers to its group members. So long as the advertising is done in a legitimate fashion, no problem. But if they attempt to use the same actics as Skyride, then they will be no better. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamesNahikian 0 #747 December 29, 2004 QuoteIt's amazing. This seems to be about trademarks, copyright, business practices, etc. From what I've read (if true), someone can throw lots of causes of action at them, and plenty will apparently stick. I won't challenge these assertions. Of course, you'll need suitable plaintiffs to stand behind the complaint, marshall the evidence, post bond (assuming preliminary injunction) and help defray the expenses. Also, plaintiffs will need to have registered and submitted deposit copies of their works with the Office prior to alleging copyright infringement in the complaint (you may be able to amend the complaint and add copyright claims subsequent to filing it). Then you're stuck with the stigma associated with being a skydiver who sues other skydivers I suppose. D. James Nahikian CHICAGO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #748 December 29, 2004 QuoteHaven't gotten my Skydiving Mag yet...let me type the other up... why don't you get parachutist anyway? SDC is a USPA DZ last I checked. It is, and I do get it but it almost always shows up very late. My Skydiving subscription ran out. Thanks for posting it_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #749 December 29, 2004 Quoteplaintiffs will need to have registered and submitted deposit copies of their works with the Office prior to alleging copyright infringement in the complaint (you may be able to amend the complaint and add copyright claims subsequent to filing it). Not necessarily. Common law of copyright and trademark developed before there were statutes addressing it. I'll say it again - this is incredibly complex, folks. There are no sure hits or misses for either side of this debate. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamesNahikian 0 #750 December 29, 2004 QuoteNot necessarily. Common law of copyright and trademark developed before there were statutes addressing it. Don't mix your apples with your oranges. While common law and state trademark is alive and well, common law copyright has been preempted by the federal statutes and it is dead for the instant purposes. I renew my claim that plaintiffs will need to have registered and submitted their deposit copies in advance of lodging any copyright claims given the facts posted here and at Jan's website. Follow the advice of your personal attorney, which I am not. D. James Nahikian CHICAGO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
