SkydiveNFlorida 0 #677 December 18, 2004 QuoteIf Skyride continues to be successful and open their own dropzones they will have a strong marketing infrastruture that will steal your student biz from you and send it to their tandem mill. Maybe Skyride needs some competition. As of now, their marketing has obviously done them much good. Now, it may be unfortunate, but it is not unfair. They are just doing what America is all about, capitalizing. Now current operations will need to sharpen up and market. I am no marketing major, but it seems like these people are not going to be stopped. The business they bring in is appealing to dzs who know that the customers otherwise would not come to them. So, they accept the certificates and make some $$ that otherwise wouldn't be made. Can't blame them for that. Food on the table now is more important than a retirement fund for a good portion of Americans. How can they be beaten at their own game, marketing? Maybe that is the real question. -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #678 December 18, 2004 QuoteAs of now, their marketing has obviously done them much good The problem is not what they are doing but how they are doing it! It is their inherent dishonesty. They Lie, Cheat and Steal. How does an honest business compete with that? This is not just about Marketing. Every DZ should Market themselves aggressively as possible, But the problem comes in when they intentionally Deceive people about where they are and who they are. Then they start stealing from other skydivers in the process. Those that believe that this is just about DZ Politics are truly deceiving themselves. This is about one company that has continued to do anything and everything imaginable to make more money without any ethics at all. Some people are comfortable supporting a business like that, the rest of us are not. Those that are comfortable with SKYRIDES business practices may want to take a moment to reevaluate their own personal values. Is it really OK to Lie Cheat and Steal to get more business? IS that something you really want to be part of? Eventually, the law will catch up to them. In the mean time all we can do is try to educate everyone we can about what they are doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greene 0 #679 December 18, 2004 It is obvious not many on DZ.com or DZO's realize the true "marketing strategy" of 1-800-skyride. The concept has been proven by others companies and has been going going on for years. However, 1-800-Skyride has taken their approach to a level that is very mcuh questionable. The way they advertise, the ploys they use, the pictures, the directions, fake webpages, fictious DZ's, student training manuels, etc, etc, etc, is deplorable and very questionable. They have crossed the line, and taken skydiving to a place where the unsuspecing new skydiver will most likely be the victim If 1800skyride would clean up their advertising and make it a more honest , user friendly, with honest advertisiments, with real dropzone locations with real Dropzones without decption, I do not think anyone would question the concept they are using. However, they are out of control. Skies blue SGC since 1961 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #680 December 18, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf Skyride continues to be successful and open their own dropzones they will have a strong marketing infrastruture that will steal your student biz from you and send it to their tandem mill. Maybe Skyride needs some competition. As of now, their marketing has obviously done them much good. Now, it may be unfortunate, but it is not unfair. They are just doing what America is all about, capitalizing. -A I dispute that America is about false advertizing and theft of copyrighted materials. I challenge you to find Skyride's "Chicago Skydiving Center" on any map. And it's remarkable how the pictures of this "Chicago" DZ look rather like Arizona and its plane has the same N number as one based at ASC. YMMV, but I think it's unfair.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #681 December 18, 2004 QuoteI challenge you to find Skyride's "Chicago Skydiving Center" on any map. Ok, here: http://www.skydiving.com/test/skydivinglocations/skydive_illinois.shtml... #4 on the map. Gimme a real challenge! Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greene 0 #682 December 18, 2004 Do you know for sure that they accept 1800skyride GC. Some DZOs did, now want out. 1-800-Skyride still advertises Drop zones that no longer will accept their Gift Certificites for skydiving. Do you know if they are still accepting 1-800-skyride. If so, shame on them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #683 December 18, 2004 QuoteThe business they bring in is appealing to dzs who know that the customers otherwise would not come to them. So, they accept the certificates and make some $$ that otherwise wouldn't be made. Can't blame them for that. This is a fallacy based upon incorrect assumptions. The reason SkyRide gets a lot of internet traffic over and beyond what real DZ sites get is because the real DZ sites do not always exploit search engine features to their best advantage and they do not use Google/Overture ads. [I will not say that all SkyRide sites are perfect in these measures, but SkyRide sites are generally are better than the competing real DZ site.] 1. keywords: keywords listed in meta tags appear in the page (that the search engine indexes) 2. description: meta tag description appears in part at least in the content part of the page text 3. linked text relevancy: linked text is relevant to the page linked to 4. correct html/css/javascript syntax 5. use Google ads - if you want a lowdown on price breaks for search words, ask me. I have studied the Google ads data enough to project minimum prices for click thrus to gain the best visibility. QuoteHow can they be beaten at their own game, marketing? Maybe that is the real question. Fix the web sites of the real DZS! Want proof? Google 'Skydive Detroit' The third listing is my Funjumper.com/skyride page Why don't any of the MI DZs appear??? You may see an ad for chicagolandskydivingcenter.com, but that web page does not appear in the regular unsponsored links. Google 'skydive sacramento' the 4th major listing is my Funjumper.com/skyride page Why don't any of the CA DZs appear??? You may see Google ads for: www.skydivesacramentovalley.com SkydiveNorthernCalifornia.com www.skydivesanfranciscobay.com www.1800SkyRide.com I don't have any Google ads promoting my web sites, but I do come up in the searches. I'll repeat myself: Fix the web sites of the real DZS! I find the copyright violations of SkyRide to be despicable. I however am not the person they have stolen from. I cannot do anything about it. It is up the people that have been ripped off to contact the Feds and whoever to gain compensation. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #684 December 18, 2004 QuoteAs of now, their marketing has obviously done them much good. Now, it may be unfortunate, but it is not unfair. OK, here's the thing ... *sigh* ... how many times can I post the same points. This is last time! I realize this is a HUGE thread and it's really difficult to read all the posts so I'll try and give the coles notes version. ***Please read*** 1.) Skyride does little advertising beyond flooding the internet with websites. - This means all it is doing is skimming internet traffic that is already active. It does not seek or establish new markets or broaden existing ones, it instead redirects customers looking for skydiving in a particular state, sells them a G.C. and then sends the customer to the real DZ they would have found anyway. 2.) The flooded website advertise DZs that do not exist. - The customer is fooled into thinking they are booking with a real DZ. The fake sites are full of fake staff photo, fake airpower descriptions and fake testimonials. The customer is unaware that the "DZ" they are researching on the net does not exist and they may have to drive to the next state to do their jump. This practice is illegal and gives them an unfair advantage. 3.) The flood of sites have copyrighted material. -My own site www.339jump.com was cut and pasted into sites like this www.tnskydiving.com There are 25-30 sites that are direct copies of my site, code and fonts. In some markets I compete with a fake DZ called Adventure Skydiving that uses my fonts, logo and images. A potetial customer could not tell my site from the fake one. My advertising feeds their business by their illegal actions. 4.) Skyride uses deceptive tatics and bait and switch and hidden charges. - Customers are surprised when they learn they have to pay extra for gear and lift ticket. This allows skyride to undercut the DZ the jumper is sent to; where he pays more than if he just called that DZ to start with. 5.) Skyride is used as market research. -When enough business in an area is redirected through Skyride, Skyride opens up a real DZ in the area. DZs that participate in Skyride's activities are giving them tools to be a potetial threat to their business. If your student business is redirected through Skyride, You may lose that business entirely. I think those are the points made in this thread as I see them. Did I miss anything? *** conclusion*** Their methods are illegal, they do not increase student numbers and they threaten existing Dropzones. If this thread continues getting circular, it may be locked. Can we use this post as a reference? I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #685 December 18, 2004 QuoteQuoteI challenge you to find Skyride's "Chicago Skydiving Center" on any map. Ok, here: http://www.skydiving.com/test/skydivinglocations/skydive_illinois.shtml... #4 on the map. Gimme a real challenge! Dave Use a real map. That's the challenge.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greene 0 #686 December 18, 2004 SKYRIDE .COM HAS ALWAYS HAD COMPETITION!! For many years, other companiis have advertised honestly!!!!! If a DZ wanted to deal with them, they did. 1800skyride is a different bugger!! Nasty for skydiving newbies!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #687 December 20, 2004 QuoteDo you know for sure that they accept 1800skyride GC. Some DZOs did, now want out. 1-800-Skyride still advertises Drop zones that no longer will accept their Gift Certificites for skydiving. Do you know if they are still accepting 1-800-skyride. If so, shame on them. In that they ARE Skyride, I expect so. I brought up the link, and went around in it trying to figure out quite what DZ "Skydive Illinois" was and where it could be found. I finally broke down and called the toll-free number, since that was the only contact information provided. The answer to my question regarding the location of "skydive Illinois" was to ask from where I was calling. Since I can't figure out how a DZ's location could be dependent upon my location, I did my very best to get the person on the phone to simply tell me quite where "Skydive Illinois" was located. The bottom line is that it isn't located anywhere. She apologized for my misunderstanding that their mission in life is simply to help me find DZs, and I didn't bother to point out that the website had nothing to do with what they actually had to offer. The impression I got was that of a Ponzi scheme pitch. Although the business model of Skyride varies greatly from a Ponzi scheme - it isn't a pyramid - there is an awful lot of the same something-for-nothing get-rich-quick in it, and their smokescreen is first rate. Not too long ago I ran into a wheelchair-bound person who told me he had made a tandem, and he spoke very highly of the people who took him up. He and his father also went to great length to voice their dissatisfaction with Skyride, detailing a laundry list of duplicity and deception they experienced when dealing with them. I am proud of the professionalism of the people who took this kid up, but I am ashamed of the treatment he received at the hands of Skyride. Over the years I have been aware of dealings within our community that were questionable at best, but Skyride takes it to another level altogether. I will be relieved when they can no longer do business as they now do, and they will not be able to continue for very long. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greene 0 #688 December 20, 2004 Thank you once more for the voice of wisdom, and reason. Coming from a person who always makes sense AND is not DZO. Skies blue always to Windsor! Skydive Greene County Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greene 0 #689 December 21, 2004 Just one little bump/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #690 December 21, 2004 Lee, there is some stuff going on in the background on this issue. Lets let the thread cool down for a bit then I'll post some updated info to the thread. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moonglo 0 #691 December 21, 2004 Today I (manifest) got calls from 3 people who bought skyride gift certificates but were told they were buying them from Skydive Houston in Waller. We do not accept these, and I feel bad for the people whose x-mas will be less than perfect due to this. I don't think there's anything we can do besides the complaint that was already filed against skydivinghouston.com, the skyride website that is stealing our traffic. How do we get the people answering their phones to stop lying about their location?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #692 December 21, 2004 QuoteToday I (manifest) got calls from 3 people who bought skyride gift certificates but were told they were buying them from Skydive Houston in Waller. We do not accept these, and I feel bad for the people whose x-mas will be less than perfect due to this. I don't think there's anything we can do besides the complaint that was already filed against skydivinghouston.com, the skyride website that is stealing our traffic. How do we get the people answering their phones to stop lying about their location?? Sue them and get the other DZ's in your area to stop taking the certificates.Spread the word.Work on your own web site.Call your states attorney generals office.Did I miss anything.DO SOMETHING!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #693 December 21, 2004 Yes, put a consumer warning on your DZ website explaining briefly the issue. Here are two different takes on it that both work well: http://www.aerohio.com/consumer_alert.htm From Sherry Butcher, Midwest Regional Director's DZ's website. Great info on that page. http://www.skydiveohio.com/index.htm Skydive Greene County's website notice. Simple and sweet.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #694 December 22, 2004 QuoteYes, put a consumer warning on your DZ website explaining briefly the issue. Here are two different takes on it that both work well: http://www.aerohio.com/consumer_alert.htm From Sherry Butcher, Midwest Regional Director's DZ's website. Great info on that page. I spoke to Sherry at length one day. Feel free to borrow the text and modify to your own. As long as it explains the mistruths that skyride advertises, you are free to use it.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamesNahikian 0 #695 December 22, 2004 By what theory did you dismiss 15 USC 1125? I'm curious regarding your reasoning. For ease of reference: (a) Civil action (1) Any person who, on or in connection with any goods or services, or any container for goods, uses in commerce any word, term, name, symbol, or device, or any combination thereof, or any false designation of origin, false or misleading description of fact, or false or misleading representation of fact, which— (A) is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive as to the affiliation, connection, or association of such person with another person, or as to the origin, sponsorship, or approval of his or her goods, services, or commercial activities by another person, or (B) in commercial advertising or promotion, misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities, or geographic origin of his or her or another person’s goods, services, or commercial activities, shall be liable in a civil action by any person who believes that he or she is or is likely to be damaged by such act. D. James Nahikian CHICAGO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #696 December 22, 2004 No one has dismissed it I think, just no one has put the money into the lawyers pockets to address it yet. I say yet because you never know what tommorrow may bring...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #697 December 22, 2004 more ilk...Different people though: www.skydivingteam.com----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamesNahikian 0 #698 December 22, 2004 QuoteI say yet because you never know what tommorrow may bring... I'll stay tuned on this channel D. James Nahikian CHICAGO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #699 December 22, 2004 Quote I think, just no one has put the money into the lawyers pockets to address it yet. Why don't the effected(by skyride) DZ's get together and file a class action law suit. I'm sure if Larry Hill can find a skydiving attorney to sue Mike Mullins (still on going), then surely there is a skydiving attorney that would sue Ben and Cary. So what is it going to cost? How much is involved? Where do we start? Chris Welker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #700 December 22, 2004 QuoteI'm sure if Larry Hill can find a skydiving attorney to sue Mike Mullins (still on going) Actually that case was ruled on some time ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
