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brothermuff65

rantoul lawsuit

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Re-read this quote from my first post.
You would be amazed how often families of the deceased will try interpret a will the way that suits them. If you want a clause in your will to be binding upon your family members it had better be drafter very precisely. Any ambiguity can be seized upon to bend the will to your relatives will (excuse the pun).



Indeed, all you can do is haunt them from the grave. Still, by explicitly stated your wishes you give them a clear message - if they ignore it, it won't be because "he would have wanted it this way."

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It is not a matter of winning and profiting from this tragedy. It is a matter of ALL the truth coming out. I am Tims Brother-in-law and yes I am a skydiver. For how much longer remains to be seen. This accident knocked the wind out of my sails. I think that 50% of the reason I am in this sport is for the rush and the love, and the other 50% is because of the people. And people with respect to this accident have been to say the least "heartless". Virtually no one knows ALL the details, but I would like to think that I know more then most. Especially since I was taking a digital movie of the entire accident. Everyone praises Rod Tinney for saving the lives of his passengers. And I to have to agree with that. He did a remarkable job. Everyone says that Tim was told "NO" and then cut through the cornfield and jumped out the last possible moment. What no one wants to hear is that I have video showing Tim standing in the field for two minutes prior to the helicopter taking off. Not only from my camera, but also the video from Tims camera. This kills the idea of Tim cutting through the cornfield. As far as him jumping out at the last possible moment. Tim was hit 20+ feet from the corn. If he jumped out at the last possible moment then he should have been playing basketball for the LA lakers and not skydiving. Was Tim told "NO" and then did it anyway? I think that is a question that needs to be asked of Rod Tinney. You see, Tim was standing at the helicopter talking with him 3-4 minutes prior to lift off. Tim then walked in front of the helicopter and down the field to where he was subsequently struck. "YES" Tim was told earlier that it was not a good time to go down there since the FAA was standing there. A phone call I received after the accident leads me to believe that "YES" Rod did know that Tim was in the field taking video. But that is merely heresay at the moment. Dave, you mention that two of the three pilots you were sitting with had hit people with their rotor-blades. Please ask them if the were hit with the tail-rotor or the main- rotor. Here is another point. The main rotor blades on a Bell 412 are 11+ feet above the ground. Tim was struck in his midsection. Thus putting the main-rotor blades about 3 feet off the ground. In addition, Tim was struck over a hundred feet from where the helicopter lifted off. Please inquire with your pilots as to why a normally 11 foot rotor was so close to the ground so long after take off. Tim was also hit on the right side of the helicopter. The same side the pilot sits on.

Please understand, I am not trying to debate this in this forum. It has taken me over a year to finally get myself straight and put the nightmares and constant thoughts of the accident behind me. I am not looking forward to going through it again. I am not party to the legal proceedings as I am only related by marriage. I am only posting this reply here because it seems as if the people in this forum are mainly decent and not at all like wreck.dot. After the accident a lot of allegations were thrown around about how Tim deserved what he got. "Tim did not deserve to die". Yes, he and I many times had conversations about how we have accepted that we could be killed in this sport. However, like most if not all, we assume if we die, it will be as a result of skydiving gone bad, not standing in a field taking video. To understand Tim you would have to have known him. Tim had to play by the rules, if he didn't he risked being killed everyday he went to work. He exercised safety in virtually everything he did. Tim had a funeral procession that was over 3 miles long with hundreds of cars. People lined up outside the funeral home to pay their respects to him hours in advance and hours after closing time. To this day not a day goes by that his family or myself don't think about him. This was something that should not have and did not need to have happened. All his family wants is ALL the truth and unfortunately legal action seems to be the only avenue to get it. I will continue to monitor this forum and post replies as I feel are needed. What I will not do is engage in character debate and I will ignore those who want to be ignorant. I still feel as though Rod Tinney is a very gifted pilot, but keep in mind that he, just like ALL of us are nothing more than human. And we as humans are prone to making mistakes.

Gary
D??

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It is not a matter of winning and profiting from this tragedy. It is a matter of ALL the truth coming out. I am Tims Brother-in-law and yes I am a skydiver. For how much longer remains to be seen. This accident knocked the wind out of my sails. I think that 50% of the reason I am in this sport is for the rush and the love, and the other 50% is because of the people. And people with respect to this accident have been to say the least "heartless". Virtually no one knows ALL the details, but I would like to think that I know more then most. Especially since I was taking a digital movie of the entire accident. Everyone praises Rod Tinney for saving the lives of his passengers. And I to have to agree with that. He did a remarkable job. Everyone says that Tim was told "NO" and then cut through the cornfield and jumped out the last possible moment. What no one wants to hear is that I have video showing Tim standing in the field for two minutes prior to the helicopter taking off. Not only from my camera, but also the video from Tims camera. This kills the idea of Tim cutting through the cornfield. As far as him jumping out at the last possible moment. Tim was hit 20+ feet from the corn. If he jumped out at the last possible moment then he should have been playing basketball for the LA lakers and not skydiving. Was Tim told "NO" and then did it anyway? I think that is a question that needs to be asked of Rod Tinney. You see, Tim was standing at the helicopter talking with him 3-4 minutes prior to lift off. Tim then walked in front of the helicopter and down the field to where he was subsequently struck. "YES" Tim was told earlier that it was not a good time to go down there since the FAA was standing there. A phone call I received after the accident leads me to believe that "YES" Rod did know that Tim was in the field taking video. But that is merely heresay at the moment. Dave, you mention that two of the three pilots you were sitting with had hit people with their rotor-blades. Please ask them if the were hit with the tail-rotor or the main- rotor. Here is another point. The main rotor blades on a Bell 412 are 11+ feet above the ground. Tim was struck in his midsection. Thus putting the main-rotor blades about 3 feet off the ground. In addition, Tim was struck over a hundred feet from where the helicopter lifted off. Please inquire with your pilots as to why a normally 11 foot rotor was so close to the ground so long after take off. Tim was also hit on the right side of the helicopter. The same side the pilot sits on.

Please understand, I am not trying to debate this in this forum. It has taken me over a year to finally get myself straight and put the nightmares and constant thoughts of the accident behind me. I am not looking forward to going through it again. I am not party to the legal proceedings as I am only related by marriage. I am only posting this reply here because it seems as if the people in this forum are mainly decent and not at all like wreck.dot. After the accident a lot of allegations were thrown around about how Tim deserved what he got. "Tim did not deserve to die". Yes, he and I many times had conversations about how we have accepted that we could be killed in this sport. However, like most if not all, we assume if we die, it will be as a result of skydiving gone bad, not standing in a field taking video. To understand Tim you would have to have known him. Tim had to play by the rules, if he didn't he risked being killed everyday he went to work. He exercised safety in virtually everything he did. Tim had a funeral procession that was over 3 miles long with hundreds of cars. People lined up outside the funeral home to pay their respects to him hours in advance and hours after closing time. To this day not a day goes by that his family or myself don't think about him. This was something that should not have and did not need to have happened. All his family wants is ALL the truth and unfortunately legal action seems to be the only avenue to get it. I will continue to monitor this forum and post replies as I feel are needed. What I will not do is engage in character debate and I will ignore those who want to be ignorant. I still feel as though Rod Tinney is a very gifted pilot, but keep in mind that he, just like ALL of us are nothing more than human. And we as humans are prone to making mistakes.

Gary
D??



it was a tradgic accident and im sorry for whatever you have had to go through...

im also sorry for whatever rod is haviing to go through....

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I can address the issue of why the blades came close (3 feet) to the ground. The 412 had to follow the fields till it crossed the active run way then it was clear to fly its pattern in the corn fields. To follow the path the 412 would start to accelerate towards the runway then it would turn slightly away from the intersection of the runways and run parallel to the departure runway till it was cleared to cross it. To do the right turn the chopper could either use the tail rotor to do the turn, or the chopper could do a more efficient turn and use the cylic and tilt the chopper and use the main blades to turn. In a tun like that the blades will drop in pitch to the horizon and the chopper will fly into a turn. If the pilot is flying past a wall (the corn basically was) he would not know what was on the other side of the wall until he was into the turn and the blades were dropped and the chopper was turning.

I'm not a pilot, but this is my understanding of chopper flight from talking to a few chopper pilots.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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And normally I would agree with you. But in this case the helicopter flew parallel to the runway with the runway on its left and corn on its right side. It never crossed the corn until it made its banking right turn. In addition, I understand what you are saying about the rotor blades dipping when the helicopter turns. But the helicopter had already been in forward motion for well over 100ft. Not only should it have been picking up forward speed, it should have been gaining altitude also. Impact did not occur until a right turn was initiated.
_________________________________________________
If the pilot is flying past a wall (the corn basically was) he would not know what was on the other side of the wall until he was into the turn and the blades were dropped and the chopper was turning.
_________________________________________________

I am not a pilot but I would think it is the pilots responsibility to know what is in his general flight. I somehow find it hard to believe that the defense of "I did not know it was there" is acceptable. Not to mention there was no obstructed view of anything. Everything happened in direct line of sight.

Gary

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But the helicopter had already been in forward motion for well over 100ft. Not only should it have been picking up forward speed, it should have been gaining altitude also.



While I'm not going to comment on the actual accident itself, I will comment about this statement. When flying a helicopter, it is smart to attain a certain airspeed before lifting the helicopter out of ground effect(10-15' max). That speed is generally what is known as translational lift. I have no time in the 412, but in most helicopters this speed is around 35-50knots. If the helicopter had only moved 100' forward, and the pilot was not being overly aggressive and have a light aircraft, he probably had not attained translational lift in the first 100' of forward travel.

Different pilots fly different ways. I fly a twin engine helicopter a little different than a single engine....but, if I am able(time and space permitting), I will attain translational lift prior to leaving ground effect.

Mike

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It is not a matter of winning and profiting from this tragedy.



Yes it is!

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It is a matter of ALL the truth coming out.



No it is not! The TRUTH is known.

Lets look at the TRUTH

TRUTH: Tim died

TRYTH: Everyone else has to live with it.

TRUTH: The FAA, law enforcement, family, attorneys etc. have viewed multiple pictures and videos of the accident.

TRUTH: As the result of the above the TRUTH of what happened is known.

TRUTH: There was no criminal finding.

TRUTH: The FAA took no action against Rod.

TRUTH: Sadly, finding out anything else will not bring Tim back.

TRUTH: Naming the helicopter manufacture, fuel vendor, City of Rantoul etc. have nothing to do with the TRUTH, but do have to do with deep pockets and insurance claims.

TRUTH: As a result of the litigation the WFFC may be in jeopardy as also Rod's ever coming back.

TRUTH: This litigation has and will keep wounds open and gain nothing that will bring Tim back or make the event safer.

TRUTH: Tim is missed.

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____________________ quote_______________________
TRUTH: The FAA, law enforcement, family, attorneys etc. have viewed multiple pictures and videos of the accident.

TRUTH: As the result of the above the TRUTH of what happened is known.
_________________________________________________

Do you really believe EVERYTHING you are told?

If so, I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale.

What first-hand knowlegde to you have of the incident? Please share.

TRUTH: The FAA/NTSB still says he was hit with the tail-rotor.

Do you believe that also?

I don't persay like attorneys anymore then most people and the reasons they do things is beyond me. They do what they do and we jump out of planes. Why? you come up with a rational answer for both and you are a hero.

I provided all the information that I have and can substantiate everything. I only ask that if you want to add something. Then make it factual and not just heresay or opinion. Otherwise lets just let it rest.

Gary

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Not to minnimize this tragedy in any way, but your comments concerning the flight path of the helicopter don't make much sense.

Is it any secret that much of the appeal of the 412 jump is the ride? I don't think so. I also don't think this was a secret to the victim.

Was he attepting to film a conservative liftoff and acent on that day? Or was he trying to capture the action of the manuvers the 412 commonly performed on each lift it flew?

Did he select a conservative vantge point from which to film this event? Or did he choose to find the spot that would provide him the most extreme camera angle for the coolest footage?

The victim made many choices that day, one of which was to put himself in the flight path of a helicopter. I don't think he ever imagined the outcome in doing so, but he did make the choice on his own.

Again, I am sorry to the friends and family of the victim. It is a terrible loss, and I'm sure he will be deeply missed.

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It is not a matter of winning and profiting from this tragedy. It is a matter of ALL the truth coming out.



Good. I hope you are all in favor of Tim's estate and family accepting full responsibility for his actions.

Tim did not have to live with the repercussions of his lapse in judgement, but Rod and the rest of the skydiving community did.

I hope Tim's estate are prepared to compensate Rod for the economic hardship that Tim's ill-considered actions have caused.

I am not sure how you can make up for Tim causing the removal of the 412 from the lineup at the Convention. Money won't do it.

Given the choice of having the 412 or Tim back, my vote goes for the 412.

I have less than zero sympathy for you or anyone associated with Tim, and am appalled that any of you should have the temerity to initiate litigation.

It is singularly galling to have you suggest that Rod was at fault. Tim's actions were about as bright and defensible as standing on the track at a NASCAR race to get a better shot, and the only consolation is that he didn't get anyone else killed in the process.

If you can't accept the responsibility that Tim took upon himself by his fatal misadventure, you would be well advised to engage in another hobby.


BSBD,

Winsor

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Gary, thanks for posting that recount.

This is not the first time I've heard that version, and I thank you for having the courage to post it.

I personally look forward to the truth coming out at trial. Until then nobody who didn't see it first hand has any reason to understand what happened.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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I'll be with Winsor on that one. Not only the victim got himself killed, he risked the life of the pilot, and all the skydivers that were on board. It is awful, that he got killed, but it was his stupidity, not anybody else. I can not understand victim's family. Hope, they will lose in court.

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why are so many businesses named in the lawsuit, Gary?


That is a concern I had, as well.

I think, however, that lawyers name everyone because then they can settle with them seperately. I suspect that the family really does want to understand why their loved one died so tragically. The lawyer probably cares, as well...but litigation can be costly, and since this is likely contingency based rather than fee based, the lawyer saw a chance to make some serious money.

Unfortunately, a lawsuit does not create truth where truth is not addressed; and does not prevent things from happening again; it simply gets cash for the lawyer, and leaves the family still questioning the occurances and greiving afresh the loss of their loved one.

It would be my suggestion that, should the family actually not want remuneration (profit is such a harsh word) and instead simply wants to understand what happened and prevent it from happening again, other issues need to be addressed, such as perhaps temporary fencing along the corn, so that there is a clear "no go zone", or something along those lines. I am sure that there is a way to assist the Rantoul folks in finding an agreeable, workable compromise, unless there really is a desire to fiscally punish people.

Oftentimes, folks believe that a large compensatory award will make it hurt less. Time will make it hurt less. Money will not.

I am deeply sorry for your loss, Gary, and for your family's loss. Please accept my condolences and be reassured that the nightmares will lessen in time, your loss will never go away but it will sting less, hurt less, pain you in your soul less. I promise you that.

Ciels-
Michele


~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

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Given the choice of having the 412 or Tim back, my vote goes for the 412



.... that is easily the most heartless thing i have ever heard anyone say in my life.

I'm completely shocked... this really is wreck-dot with a pretty gui...
it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

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.... that is easily the most heartless thing i have ever heard anyone say in my life.



Agreed. Not only that, but I'm shocked at who it came from. I've never seen such an exhibition of bad taste.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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.... that is easily the most heartless thing i have ever heard anyone say in my life.

I'm completely shocked... this really is wreck-dot with a pretty gui...



But, it's honest. There's really something wrong if we need to stop being honest to make sure that no one is offended.

-
Jim
"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

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It is not a matter of winning and profiting from this tragedy.


Then (truthfully) why are so many businesses named in the lawsuit, Gary?



The law is not about principle, right and wrong or finding the truth; it's about money. In the end, you MAY get money IF you're legally (not morally) entitled to it. Deep pockets are named in lawsuits because they have money and you may get some from them -- even just to go away. [:/]

Most cases settle based upon the professional evaluations of lawyers and insurance professionals.

By contrast, you "roll the dice" in front of a jury. Six different juries will probably give you six different verdicts, based upon the persuasiveness of counsel and what information a jury is allowed to hear by the rules of evidence. "The truth" is what six people are convinced to believe on a given day. :S One jury may think the world of a case; another that the plaintiff is a liar. One lawyer may win big based on the same facts and another get nothing.

I think it's a good system, but it's not perfect.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

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