Trump vs Hitler

[JerryBaumchen 1,283]

5 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Who? No lifelong politician at this level gives up power willingly. Someone would have had to take it from him. The roster of potential nominees in 2020 contained no one better. 

Hi Ken,

On that, I must disagree with you.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,283]

5 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

To some extent, "what can they do". Look at the last remaining republican politician with a backbone, Liz Cheney. Look at Rick Wilson the founder of the Lincoln Project a 30 year republican. Author of the acclaimed book "Everything Trump touches dies".

Once a master manipulator, politician, populist gains control of the reins of a party. i.e. the nomination process. Only radiation and a cocktail of poisons will kill it.

Hi Phil,

Re:  To some extent, "what can they do".

There are times in one's life in which they must stand up for what they really believe, even to their own detriment.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer - Wikipedia

And:

The Nazi's first came for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.  Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.  Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up

because I was a Protestant.  Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak for me.

 Rev. Martin Niemoeller

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,369]

25 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Not coming from BIGUN, he does think before he writes and he writes what he truly believes, in my view.

And yet here he is flat out lying about what he said in this thread, and refusing to admit the obvious, offensive lunacy of comparing criticism of a person's political choices with overt racism.

26 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

 I'd be thrilled to see him change an opinion but he really does not need to admit error to get credit from me or you. 

Oh not me - but there are people who think he's better than this and he's doing his absolute best to let them down.

[jakee 1,369]

8 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

The Nazi's first came for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.  Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.  Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up

because I was a Protestant.  Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak for me.

 Rev. Martin Niemoeller

Gosh, it sure sounds like he's saying the Nazis are evil. How dare he accuse all Nazis of being bad! Surely that's just the same logic as calling a Jew a Kike.

[Phil1111 1,096]

4 hours ago, jakee said:

And as I have repeated and repeated and repeated - no one here said it did. But Trump is a racist and a fascist, and saying so isn't remotely like being racist against Bigun, no matter how badly he wants to be seen as a victim.

Bigun wants to be seen as a victim? I've never met him but I doubt thats the case. Or do you mean that trump wants to be the victim?

[Phil1111 1,096]

24 minutes ago, jakee said:

And yet here he is flat out lying about what he said in this thread, and refusing to admit the obvious, offensive lunacy of comparing criticism of a person's political choices with overt racism.

Oh not me - but there are people who think he's better than this and he's doing his absolute best to let them down.

I gotta go with Joe on this one. One thing about trump he sure brings out the passion in politics.

[jakee 1,369]

32 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Bigun wants to be seen as a victim? I've never met him but I doubt thats the case.

Then what's he moaning about? What's his point? Republicans aren't on the receiving end of the exact same thing as racism? 

I would add that it's doubly ironic that Bigun claims to be on the receiving end of it when he has previously dismissed out of hand multiple investigations by the military that concluded various branches of the military had problems with systemic racism. Apparently that's ridiculous - but saying Trump is mimicking Hitler's tactics? That's the exact same thing as being racist against all Republicans. 100%.

Edited May 26 by jakee

[gowlerk 2,109]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

How do you explain black Republicans?

The same way you explain black people who owned slaves.

[JoeWeber 2,590]

3 hours ago, Hissone said:

I have a few big reasons why i won’t vote for Biden besides his age and his crackhead son.  Memorial Day weekend is a fitting time seeing how Biden’s incompetence lead to more people being recognized on memorial day.  The Afghanistan withdrawal.  During the withdrawal he allowed the Taliban to provide security around the Kabul airport. He actually appeared shocked when a suicide bomber detonated a bomb killing 13 servicemen and over 150 civilians.  Oh and how did he respond to this attack? He approved a drone strike to target the ones responsible for the attack. The only problem was the target was a civilian family killing 10. 7 of them being children. One of the fathers of a Marine killed in the attack said when Biden came to talk to the family’s of the serviceman killed he said the President was telling them he understood their grief and loss because he lost a veteran son to cancer. 

Thank you brave sir for your honesty. I'm certain we have a few Trump voters here but little ownership of their intentions. Can we talk a bit about the basis of your support, please? I'm thinking one issue at a time to keep confusing overlap at a minimum.

For example, your claim that Memorial day is a fitting time to observe Biden's incompetence and then your laying of the Afghanistan withdrawal at his feet. Were you aware that it was Donald Trump who negotiated the withdrawal? (.pdf link of the agreement below)

Interestingly, the date Trump chose for starting the process of diplomatic recognition was May, 29 2020. (With the start of intra-Afghan negotiations, the United States will start diplomatic engagement with other members of the United Nations Security Council and Afghanistan to remove members of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban from the sanctions list with the aim of achieving this objective by May 29, 2020, which corresponds to Shawwal 6, 1441 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Jawza 9, 1399 on the Hijri Solar calendar.)

So it was a Trump withdrawal not a Biden military failure. Yes, Biden wanted to end the war but in fact he was bound by Trumps agreement and simply kicked the can down the road until August 31 to get more Americans out. So in light of these facts, do you still believe more of the blame should be laid on Biden?

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

[BIGUN 1,231]

Evening all, First, I have not lied - just because some don't agree with my opinion does not make me a liar. I stand by my opinion that all stereotyping is wrong. 

I need to step away for a couple of days. Tomorrow is Memorial Day and I usually go to the national cemetery. While tomorrow is a day at the beach, or lake, or DZ for most - please take a moment to remember the men and women of this country who gave all.

Peace

[JoeWeber 2,590]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Bigun wants to be seen as a victim? I've never met him but I doubt thats the case. Or do you mean that trump wants to be the victim?

Correct me if I'm wrong (this is a one time use offer) but didn't Mr. BIGUN belong to an organization whose sole purpose was to create victims not be one?

[kallend 1,842]

4 hours ago, Hissone said:

I’m going to vote for Trump simply because the only other choice is Biden.  I don’t like Trumps rhetoric or most of  personality traits. I think he is a self serving sleaze. That being said Biden’s presidency has been an absolute disaster.  His withdrawal from Afghanistan was reprehensible but he touted it as a success.  His energy and economic polices are on par with his military abilities.  Plus the man seems like he cannot  even speak a complete sentence.   

Another swallower of the Fox Kool-Aid.

The withdrawal from Afghanistan was negotiated with the Taliban during Trump's presidency, signed 29 Feb. 2020 (during the Trump presidency) and is known as the Doha Accord.

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/02.29.20-US-Afghanistan-Joint-Declaration.pdf

 

 

Edited May 26 by kallend

[Phil1111 1,096]

24 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Correct me if I'm wrong (this is a one time use offer) but didn't Mr. BIGUN belong to an organization whose sole purpose was to create victims not be one?

Or create winners. It's his weekend as well and for that he deserves a salute.

and to the victors go the rewards:

[billvon 2,758]

5 hours ago, kallend said:

I seriously doubt that you intend to influence fashion or TV shows despite your lack of information in the same way an uninformed voter influences the outcome of an election.  

Right.  And a great many people don't vote, and so don't influence the outcome of an election.  Even more vote but assume that their vote means nothing in the overall picture.

[billvon 2,758]

5 hours ago, Hissone said:

The Afghanistan withdrawal.  During the withdrawal he allowed the Taliban to provide security around the Kabul airport. He actually appeared shocked when a suicide bomber detonated a bomb killing 13 servicemen and over 150 civilians. 

Agreed.

So why are you voting for the man who negotiated that withdrawal, and agreed to the details?

[billvon 2,758]

5 hours ago, BIGUN said:

You did not. Notice the "s." But, many of your affiliation do. 

Why does the singular vs plural matter?

"You are a cunt" - insulting one person 
"You are a bunch of cunts" (directed at a group of people) - insulting several people
"Women are cunts" - attacking all women

The second one in that list does not mean you are attacking all women.  The third does.

"Hitler and Trump's rise to power have similarities" - definitely an implied insult to Trump
"Those Charlottesville republicans are Nazis" - an insult and largely accurate
"Republicans are Nazis" - attacking all republicans

Again, 2 and 3 are quite different.

5 hours ago, BIGUN said:

How do you explain black Republicans?

?? Anyone - blacks, whites, Jews, Muslims, Christians, men, women - can be racist.  They can also be sexist and bigoted.  There are plenty of examples of all three.

Quote

But, many of your affiliation do. 

My affiliation?  Independents?  Liberals?  I suppose a lot of liberals think that republicans are often racist, but I don't.  And I can only speak for my own opinions.

[billvon 2,758]

22 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Or create winners. It's his weekend as well and for that he deserves a salute.

Memorial Day is to remember and honor people who have died fighting for the United States.  I for one am glad Bigun is not in that group.

[normiss 726]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Evening all, First, I have not lied - just because some don't agree with my opinion does not make me a liar. I stand by my opinion that all stereotyping is wrong. 

I need to step away for a couple of days. Tomorrow is Memorial Day and I usually go to the national cemetery. While tomorrow is a day at the beach, or lake, or DZ for most - please take a moment to remember the men and women of this country who gave all.

Peace

Peace brother. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,469]

6 hours ago, Hissone said:

I’m going to vote for Trump simply because the only other choice is Biden.  I don’t like Trumps rhetoric or most of  personality traits. I think he is a self serving sleaze. That being said Biden’s presidency has been an absolute disaster.  His withdrawal from Afghanistan was reprehensible but he touted it as a success.  His energy and economic polices are on par with his military abilities.  Plus the man seems like he cannot  even speak a complete sentence.   

Well, let's look at the facts of your assertions.

Afghanistan: The deal to withdraw the US was negotiated by Trump's minions. It was done without any consultation with the Afghans. Same with the release of 5k Taliban prisoners.
Trump withdrew all but a couple thousand US personnel before leaving office.
Trump himself bragged that he left Biden with no choice in the situation.

And Biden really didn't have any choice. He could continue the withdraw and leave Afghanistan to the Taliban, or he could try to send enough troops back to thwart the Taliban's intentions to take over.
But that would have basically been an invasion. 
The Taliban would have had the ability to stop the US from sending in troops by air (they would control the airports) and a ground invasion would have been a HUGE mess.

As far as the economic policies:
The Dow Jones Industrial Average has hit 40,000. 
Inflation has been brought under control. 
The Fed has decided to not raise interest rates. 
Job creation has blown every existing record completely out of the water.
Unemployment has been at levels not seen in a long time for longer than any time in the last 75 years.

Last, Biden has a stutter. A speech impediment. Anyone who understands what that is also understands that Biden's speech patterns are completely consistent with a stutter. 
He's shown a lot of intelligence and mental acuity. His State of the Union addresses have been works of art. His handling of the hecking by the 'Freedumb Coocoos' was masterful.

He HASN'T confused Jimmy Carter with Jimmy Connors. He HASN'T expressed admiration for a fictional cannibalistic serial killer. 

You, however, have done a very nice job of confirming my opinion.

[kallend 1,842]

3 hours ago, billvon said:

Agreed.

So why are you voting for the man who negotiated that withdrawal, and agreed to the details?

That reason turned out to be false, his economic argument turns out to be false.

But I'm sure he'll come up with another rationalization to vote for a lying rapist con-man.

[jakee 1,369]

10 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Evening all, First, I have not lied - just because some don't agree with my opinion does not make me a liar.

No, lying about it makes you a liar. Just like you lied about the evidence you were shown that there was systemic racism in the military.

You went out of your way to minimise the impact of stereotyping, prejudice and racism on people who actually directly experience it because you just didn't want to know, but now you're whinging that you are the victim of something just like racism because you're a Republican and people are complaining about Trump. If you're going to keep claiming that is your genuine belief I think it is also an obvious lie.

Edited May 27 by jakee

[tkhayes 289]

17 hours ago, kallend said:

......

There is a VERY strong parallel between the rise of Hitler and the rise of Trump. 

 

There are also comparisons to the rise of any other authoritarian figure, but all we seem to use is 'nazi'.

[JoeWeber 2,590]

13 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Evening all, First, I have not lied - just because some don't agree with my opinion does not make me a liar. I stand by my opinion that all stereotyping is wrong. 

I need to step away for a couple of days. Tomorrow is Memorial Day and I usually go to the national cemetery. While tomorrow is a day at the beach, or lake, or DZ for most - please take a moment to remember the men and women of this country who gave all.

Peace

I will, and peace to you.

[winsor 227]

41 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

There are also comparisons to the rise of any other authoritarian figure, but all we seem to use is 'nazi'.

The rise of the NSDAP was due to very real threats to the fabric of society in the '20s and early '30s.  Over 600,000 Germans had died due to starvation and starvation related illnesses in the early '20s, and going through that results in a real reset of one's outlook.

The Communists/Socialists had earned a level of hatred from those who were not Communist/Socialist that eclipsed the loathing of the brutes from Bavaria, the attitude being that, much as the Brown Shirts suck, they take no prisoners when it comes to commies.  A classic case of, the enemy of my enemy may not be my friend - but close enough for Government work.

Today anyone who qualifies as a moderate is excoriated by both the right and left.  Pointing out that one candidate or another is FUBAR is taken as support of the equally flawed opposition, so it's very much a matter of 'pick your poison.'

Each side is seen as accepting the excesses of their particular fringe, and is thus discredited by the other side.  It all comes down to who is (ever so slightly) more odious, and one then holds their nose and votes against them (if at all).

With the dreadful people from Bavaria running the show, there were unacceptable excesses but companies could stay in business.  Being able to eat outweighed not having your neighbors being relocated 'East' for vague purposes (nothing bad will happen to them, we're civilized people...).

Here we are being overrun by a real dog's breakfast of the overpopulation of several failed societies, and the slag in the 'melting pot' is viewed as a real problem.  Voters then may think that, yeah, he may be batshit crazy but the dumb sonofabitch will put a screeching halt to the torrent of illegal immigration.

I agree that this is all too similar to how the Chancellor was elected.  'Der Fuehrer' was a role that he made up later, and was thus immune from constitutional constraints.

Our former president is not given to any strong philosophical bent - 'The Art of the Deal' and 'Mein Kampf' are dissimilar - so discerning quite what he will pull if reelected is tough.  However, the status quo is so unappealing to enough voters that, even knowing what a ghastly person he is, the 'silent majority' may well say fuck it and vote for him.

It worked for the Chancellor.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[ryoder 1,566]

24 minutes ago, winsor said:

Our former president is not given to any strong philosophical bent - 'The Art of the Deal' and 'Mein Kampf' are dissimilar - so discerning quite what he will pull if reelected is tough.

Well, one big difference: As far as we know, Hitler actually wrote Mein Kampf himself, and did not hire Tony Schwartz to do it for him.