Trump vs Hitler

[jakee 1,369]

5 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Kinda bothersome isn't it. When stereotyping is pointed out. I'll ask the same question here - it's ok to stereotype if you're liberal/democrat. Just trying to learn the rules or changes to the rules.  

No you’re not. You are making an entirely disingenuous comparison with the aim of arguing that your own decisions should be as immune from criticism as the skin colour someone else was born with. 
 

If you claim that you can’t understand why that’s not the rule, you’re just lying.

[BIGUN 1,231]

8 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

What the actual fuck are you talking about?

I'm talking about the hypocrisy of chastising those who stereotype and those who think that it's OK - as long as it's them.

8 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

How is EVERYTHING the Rs are doing to take over and destroy our democracy NOT a very clear parallel to the Nazis?

Just like this.  

[BIGUN 1,231]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

No, just confusing.  For calling them what?  Hitler?  That doesn't make a lot of sense.  Have black people been compared to Hitler? 

C'mon, Bill. We're talking about the reasoning for stereotyping. Anyone else stereotypes - you'd bounce them. 

[wmw999 2,325]

13 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

C'mon, Bill. We're talking about the reasoning for stereotyping. Anyone else stereotypes - you'd bounce them. 

OK, I think I understand what you're saying, but it's slurs rather than stereotypes that generally get you bounced. And generally only when applied to other posters. Yeah, it's a fine line, and kind of wiggly and fuzzy too.

Wendy P. 

[jakee 1,369]

14 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

C'mon, Bill. We're talking about the reasoning for stereotyping. Anyone else stereotypes - you'd bounce them. 

No you’re not. You’re making the outrageously racist claim that criticising Republicans for continuing to support or enable the festering moral abscess and fascist imitator Trump is the same as calling black people niggers because they act like niggers. 
 

And you think that means you can complain that other people aren’t being bounced? I think we both know the only reason you’re able to post right now is that you’re made of Teflon.

[wmw999 2,325]

Doing it a little too brown there. Bigun is no racist, and he's making no such claims. He is suggesting that painting all Republicans with the same brush is just as wrong as painting all of any group

Wendy P.

[BIGUN 1,231]

12 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

He is suggesting that painting all Republicans with the same brush is just as wrong as painting all of any group

That's it in a nutshell. Thank you. 

[jakee 1,369]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Doing it a little too brown there. Bigun is no racist, and he's making no such claims. He is suggesting that painting all Republicans with the same brush is just as wrong as painting all of any group

Wendy P.

He made exactly that claim. You and I both know he did, because he even used the word 'exactly'.

Joe: As long as Trump, the MAGA morons and the Alt Right people continue to act like Hitler, I'm going to keep calling them Nazis.

Bigun: Exact same reasoning used against blacks for calling them . . . 

You tell me what claim he was making that isn't exactly what I just said it was. 

You might claim that he didn't really mean what he said - but several people asked him to clarify and he refused, so we are simply left with what he said. 

I don't know if Bigun is really a racist or not, but it is absolutely racist to conflate criticism of "Trump, MAGA morons and the Alt Right" for the things they say and do with abuse of black people for being black. It is absolutely, categorically, undeniably a racist statement. I know he's your friend and you let him get away with a lot of stuff because of that, but the statement speaks for itself and he doesn't appear to be in any hurry to retract it.

Edited May 26 by jakee

[Phil1111 1,096]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Doing it a little too brown there. Bigun is no racist, and he's making no such claims. He is suggesting that painting all Republicans with the same brush is just as wrong as painting all of any group

Wendy P.

Agree. Its gets lost in the noise sometimes but about 50% of all Americans are republicans. IMO only 10% are racists. Keep in mind that democrats have racists in their party as well.

[jakee 1,369]

7 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Agree. Its gets lost in the noise sometimes but about 50% of all Americans are republicans. IMO only 10% are racists. Keep in mind that democrats have racists in their party as well.

Sure - but we're talking about a Republican who is saying 'criticising any Republican for their political choices is like calling a black person a nigger'. So that kinda tips the scales a bit.

[BIGUN 1,231]

8 minutes ago, jakee said:

'criticising any Republican for their political choices is like calling a black person a

What I said was the justification/rationale/reasoning for stereotyping is the same. When you make general categorizations about an entire group based on a few - that is stereotyping. I do not/will not lump all Democrats as Communists/Marxists, because it is an unfair association. 

[wmw999 2,325]

It might be too subtle

Wendy P. 

[gowlerk 2,109]

40 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Agree. Its gets lost in the noise sometimes but about 50% of all Americans are republicans. IMO only 10% are racists. Keep in mind that democrats have racists in their party as well.

All people are racist to some extent, including black people and other minorities. It's part of tribalism and being human. But we can each control our behaviors. Trump and it seems many conservatives choose to use that fact to divide us from each other and gain power through manipulating our feelings. None of us can really ever know what is in another's heart. So we must judge them by their actions. The current leader of the R party behaves in a racist manner and since he is the leader the others are followers. Clearly his followers are willing to accept his racism. That means they are behaving in a racist manner. This is not stereotyping, this is fact.

[Phil1111 1,096]

22 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

What I said was the justification/rationale/reasoning for stereotyping is the same. When you make general categorizations about an entire group based on a few - that is stereotyping. I do not/will not lump all Democrats as Communists/Marxists, because it is an unfair association. 

Agree this election should be a slam dunk for Biden. But he has done little to deal with mass immigration issues on the southern border. Done little to control spending, the $8.5 billion subsidy to Intel is a good example. He has implemented more protectionist trade subsidies than trump did. He could have let another democrat run given his lack of personal appeal due to his age. But these criticisms should all be in the Biden critics thread.

[jakee 1,369]

15 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

What I said was the justification/rationale/reasoning for stereotyping is the same.

And that is still completely wrong and a racist statement. How do black people act that leads others to call them niggers?

17 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

When you make general categorizations about an entire group based on a few - that is stereotyping. I do not/will not lump all Democrats as Communists/Marxists, because it is an unfair association. 

So what? Not one single person on this site has called all Republicans Nazis. That's just an artifact of your hypersensitivity.

You took exception to Joe criticising "Trump, the MAGA morons and the Alt Right". Claiming that he was unfairly denigrating all Republicans is an outright lie, and a very obvious one. Look, I'm quite sure you feel guilty for putting party loyalty ahead of your moral, ethical and patriotic duty to actively vote against Trump and his minions, but that doesn't impose a duty on anyone else to take care of your feelings by pretending that the above groups are any less despicable than they are.

[gowlerk 2,109]

Just now, Phil1111 said:

He could have let another democrat run given his lack of personal appeal due to his age.

Who? No lifelong politician at this level gives up power willingly. Someone would have had to take it from him. The roster of potential nominees in 2020 contained no one better. 

[jakee 1,369]

10 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

It might be too subtle

Wendy P. 

It's as subtle as a sledgehammer yet you still pretend to miss it.

[kallend 1,842]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

That's it in a nutshell. Thank you. 

So what are these "good" Republicans doing about the cancer in their party?

[gowlerk 2,109]

1 minute ago, jakee said:

Not one single person on this site has called all Republicans Nazis. That's just an artifact of your hypersensitivity.

Look at the title of this thread and try to imagine it not leading to Rs feeling that they are being called nazis.

[kallend 1,842]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Look at the title of this thread and try to imagine it not leading to Rs feeling that they are being called nazis.

Only those Rs that choose to fall in line behind the wannabe Hitler should feel that way. 

[jakee 1,369]

6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Look at the title of this thread and try to imagine it not leading to Rs feeling that they are being called nazis.

Look at this and try to imagine I haven't addressed exactly that point.

Look, I'm quite sure you feel guilty for putting party loyalty ahead of your moral, ethical and patriotic duty to actively vote against Trump and his minions, but that doesn't impose a duty on anyone else to take care of your feelings by pretending that the above groups are any less despicable than they are.

Trump is not every Republican and no-one in this thread has ever come remotely close to claiming that he is. It is up to every Republican, in the full knowledge of who and what Trump is, to decide whether to enable him or not. And no matter how desperate to play the victim Bigun may be, calling Trump a Nazi and causing him to feel guilty by association is not in any universe a similar thing to calling a black person a nigger.

Edited May 26 by jakee

[wolfriverjoe 1,469]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I'm talking about the hypocrisy of chastising those who stereotype and those who think that it's OK - as long as it's them.

Just like this.  

Except this is a bit more than standard 'stereotyping'.

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Doing it a little too brown there. Bigun is no racist, and he's making no such claims. He is suggesting that painting all Republicans with the same brush is just as wrong as painting all of any group

Wendy P.

I'm 'painting all Republicans' WHO SUPPORT TRUMP  with that brush.

 

23 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

What I said was the justification/rationale/reasoning for stereotyping is the same. When you make general categorizations about an entire group based on a few - that is stereotyping. I do not/will not lump all Democrats as Communists/Marxists, because it is an unfair association. 

I'm not lumping all conservatives together as Nazis.

But Trumpty Dumpty controls the Republican party. The MAGA morons have enough power at the primary polls to scare away any candidate willing to stand up and call Trump what he really is.
Look at McConnel. Look at Graham. 

Look at the border bill recently. It gave the Rs everything they wanted. It didn't have everything the Ds wanted. It could have passed, it would have helped.

But Trumpty Dumpty had his little bitch Johnson refuse to bring it up to a vote because he wanted to continue to pretend there's a crisis at the border. A crisis so severe that nothing should be done about it.

And the MAGA morons ate it up.


His daughter-in-law is in charge of the party and looting the coffers to pay the Mango Mussolini's bills. At the expense of 'lesser' candidates.


Right now anyone who says they 'support the Republican Party' are supporting TRUMP.
Period.

And, after the 9 years we've had to see and evaluate his behaviors, ANYONE who continues to support Trump is either a fucking idiot or truly evil.

Fortunately, his support is dwindling. He's had to make ridiculous claims about the cops 'closing off the streets' to try to rationalize the fact that he's had virtually no supporters outside the courthouse (like in the single digits). Funny how, despite the cops keeping everyone away, the line to attend the actual trial was long enough that people were lining up at 3am. 
And the "Freedumb Caucus' was able to stand outside, on camera, and spout their loyalty to him.

[Phil1111 1,096]

30 minutes ago, kallend said:

So what are these "good" Republicans doing about the cancer in their party?

To some extent, "what can they do". Look at the last remaining republican politician with a backbone, Liz Cheney. Look at Rick Wilson the founder of the Lincoln Project a 30 year republican. Author of the acclaimed book "Everything Trump touches dies".

Once a master manipulator, politician, populist gains control of the reins of a party. i.e. the nomination process. Only radiation and a cocktail of poisons will kill it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,469]

Just now, Phil1111 said:

To some extent, "what can they do". Look at the last remaining republican politician with a backbone, Liz Cheney. Look at Rick Wilson the founder of the Lincoln Project a 30 year republican. Author of the acclaimed book "Everything Trump touches dies".

Once a master manipulator, politician, populist gains control of the reins of a party. i.e. the nomination process. Only radiation and a cocktail of poisons will kill it.

Right. 

There's very little that honest, decent conservatives can do to stop the MAGA morons.

The only real upside to it is that Trumpty Dumpty has control of virtually the entire R party. His daughter in law is now head.

So, in true 'Trump Inc' fashion, she's looting the coffers. Spending every last dime paying Trump's bills. 
So the amount of money left for any other candidates (national, state & local) is virtually nothing.

The big 'Mega Donors' (Koch bros, Griffin, Walton) are also backing away from Trump, and supporting primary challengers to the Freedumb Coo-Coos. 

[jakee 1,369]

10 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

To some extent, "what can they do".

Who are you talking about, elected Republicans? There was nothing stopping any of them doing what Liz Cheney did. If they had, Trump would be impeached and gone. Hell, Congressional leaders and grandees actively facilitated his recent primary win by treating him as a king in exile for Biden's entire term. Very few of these people were Maga faithful, just soulless power hungry opportunists who put winning ahead of principle.

Or you're talking about Republican voters? Well, stop me if this is too complex, but they can use their fucking vote. Bigun refuses to vote for a Democrat in the presidential election despite knowing the nature of the choice and the consequences that face the nation. When pressed, he'll just make up some vile nonsense about Biden in order to avoid any more difficult questions, then later claim he was only joking. All of that is on him. Again, I can fully understand why he feels guilty about that - but it's no basis for claiming that he personally is just like a victim of racism because people are pointing out that Trump is despicable. It's absurd.

Edited May 26 by jakee