Things have not changed here I C

[Phil1111 910]

2 minutes ago, DJL said:

Can you imagine what the Whitehouse will be like from Nov-Jan if Trump loses?  We will not give a shit about the outcome of anything he does and will be surrounded by people who no longer want to risk their careers just to be replaced in a few months.  I'm going to guess he spends most of the time claiming the vote was illegal and poisoning the well for Biden any way he can.

I completely agree and wolfriverjoe has also stated about the same thoughts. Keep in mind most people would have their more outrageous and/or criminal inclinations moderated by the fact they no longer enjoy presidential protections come January 20th.

[DJL 232]

2 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

I completely agree and wolfriverjoe has also stated about the same thoughts. Keep in mind most people would have their more outrageous and/or criminal inclinations moderated by the fact they no longer enjoy presidential protections come January 20th.

I meant to say "He" instead of "We" in the sentence "We will not give a shit about ".

That branch of the government is going to be a fucking zoo.  Trump has done nothing but burn everyone around him the moment they show the faintest sign of total devotion.  I wonder if it'll be a mad dash for the door or if he'll just burn the whole place down around himself and Steven Miller.  Images from "Downfall" come to mind as his helpless syncopates surround him during his tirades.   Or he'll just say "fuck it" and go golfing for three months in Florida.

[Phil1111 910]

11 minutes ago, DJL said:

I meant to say "He" instead of "We" in the sentence "We will not give a shit about ".

That branch of the government is going to be a fucking zoo.  Trump has done nothing but burn everyone around him the moment they show the faintest sign of total devotion.  I wonder if it'll be a mad dash for the door or if he'll just burn the whole place down around himself and Steven Miller.  Images from "Downfall" come to mind as his helpless syncopates surround him during his tirades.   Or he'll just say "fuck it" and go golfing for three months in Florida.

Completely agree with everything except the last sentence. I don't know if its credit worthy or not. But trump's default is not to say "f*#k it" and walk away. He wants to always have the last word and take advantage of anything that he can.

He has also indicated that he wants to set up some sort of website for his base in the future. AKA like Breitbart. I imagine it will be a mix of conspiracy theories, self promotion and self advertisement.

p.s. I wonder if he will try to bug the WH. Like Obama did to him?

 

[normiss 622]

Oamagate! In a detailed explanation of how horrible that crime was!

[SkyDekker 1,122]

4 hours ago, DJL said:

I meant to say "He" instead of "We" in the sentence "We will not give a shit about ".

That branch of the government is going to be a fucking zoo.  Trump has done nothing but burn everyone around him the moment they show the faintest sign of total devotion.  I wonder if it'll be a mad dash for the door or if he'll just burn the whole place down around himself and Steven Miller.  Images from "Downfall" come to mind as his helpless syncopates surround him during his tirades.   Or he'll just say "fuck it" and go golfing for three months in Florida.

he will continue to do what he did prior to COVID. Manipulate the stock market through tweets and statements and make himself and his family a bundle of money.

 

On his last day he will pardon himself and his entire family for anything they may or may not have done in a full blanket pardon.

[airdvr 197]

His last day?  You mean in 2025 right?

[normiss 622]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

His last day?  You mean in 2025 right?

Only if Russia succeeds. Again.

[nigel99 143]

3 hours ago, normiss said:

Only if Russia succeeds. Again.

Based on the utter devotion to Trump and his elevation to god like status by a reasonable minority of posters here, I stand by my thoughts he’ll be re elected. 
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if some people just vote for him out of the fear of what he will do if he loses. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

23 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

he will continue to do what he did prior to COVID. Manipulate the stock market through tweets and statements and make himself and his family a bundle of money.

 

On his last day he will pardon himself and his entire family for anything they may or may not have done in a full blanket pardon.

One thing to remember:

A Presidential pardon can only be for Federal crimes.

Any state's attorney or local DA can still prosecute him for anything illegal he did in that state.

I have a funny feeling he's going to have a few issues in New York.

[DJL 232]

6 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

One thing to remember:

A Presidential pardon can only be for Federal crimes.

Any state's attorney or local DA can still prosecute him for anything illegal he did in that state.

I have a funny feeling he's going to have a few issues in New York.

I know we're just talking but I'm hoping we can break the cycle of one President or political party spending their time getting political retribution the the previous.  It may be painful but Trump is a good place to start.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 minute ago, DJL said:

I know we're just talking but I'm hoping we can break the cycle of one President or political party spending their time getting political retribution the the previous.  It may be painful but Trump is a good place to start.

I guess I don't see it as 'political retribution'.

He's committed a LOT of crimes. And gotten away with them so far.
THAT is the 'cycle' I'd like to see broken.

Keep in mind that there are numerous investigations of his crimes currently in progress. There's a case before the Supreme Court right now about one. Trump's lawyers are trying to convince the court that he should have 'temporary immunity' from investigation, not just prosecution. And that his family and business entities should too. 

One concept that differentiates the US from many, many other countries is the basic principle that 'no man is above the law'. Trump is trying to undermine that. And has succeeded so far.

It disgusts me.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

40 minutes ago, DJL said:

I know we're just talking but I'm hoping we can break the cycle of one President or political party spending their time getting political retribution the the previous.  It may be painful but Trump is a good place to start.

The idea has generally been that the justice system is not a political tool. That is the part that now appears to be changing quite drastically.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, DJL said:

I know we're just talking but I'm hoping we can break the cycle of one President or political party spending their time getting political retribution the the previous.  It may be painful but Trump is a good place to start.

That doesn't follow. All the congressional investigations and press conference back biting is one thing, the justice system is another. Letting the president get away with real crimes simply because he's the president is far more corrosive than the possibility that pursuing those crimes can be spun as some kind of partisan action.

 

And that stands especially now that Trump is eclipsing Nixon with his constant proclamations that he can do literally anything he wants, and is immune from consequences for anything that he has done or might do. For all your sakes he needs to be proven wrong.

[wmw999 2,121]

Dunno; I kind of see DJL’s point. Yeah, Ford pardoned Nixon, so we could move forward. Unfortunately, now this would be seen as weakness, but I’d be OK with a deal that had the country moving forward, finding goals that we can agree on, even if that means ignoring some that many people think are more important. 
We need people to find things to work toward that aren’t just specifically designed to piss “the other side” off. 
And McConnell needs to lose. And I have no issue whatsoever with NY doing what it thinks is right. 
Wendy P. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by wmw999

[ryoder 1,384]

7 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

And McConnell needs to lose. 

He needs to be impeached for refusing to do his constitutional duty to bring Merrick Garland's nomination to a vote.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

15 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Yeah, Ford pardoned Nixon, so we could move forward.

I can see that if Trump resigns.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

32 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Ford pardoned Nixon, so we could move forward.

Hi Wendy,

According to what he said back then, Ford pardoned Nixon because he was concerned that Nixon would commit suicide.  Nixon went into a very deep depression after resigning.

I tend to believe Ford, a most honorable man IMO.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Although, in his first speech to both the House & the Senate as POTUS, he said, 'Our national nightmare is over.'

[jakee 1,254]

32 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

We need people to find things to work toward that aren’t just specifically designed to piss “the other side” off. 

Sure, but criminal cases against Trump for tax fraud, bribery, his charity stuff and whatever the hell else aren't specifically designed to piss the other side off, they're designed to hold him to account for criminal behaviour - just like they should be for everyone else. 

 

Thinking that having been president puts him on some higher level than the normal people where his reputation is now more important than the law is flat out wrong, IMO, and toxic for the prospects of integrity in office for the future.

[nigel99 143]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Sure, but criminal cases against Trump for tax fraud, bribery, his charity stuff and whatever the hell else aren't specifically designed to piss the other side off, they're designed to hold him to account for criminal behaviour - just like they should be for everyone else. 

 

Thinking that having been president puts him on some higher level than the normal people where his reputation is now more important than the law is flat out wrong, IMO, and toxic for the prospects of integrity in office for the future.

Do you think America has integrity? I don’t mean do individuals Americans have integrity, of course the majority do. But as a nation and how it conducts itself?

[Phil1111 910]

47 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Do you think America has integrity? I don’t mean do individuals Americans have integrity, of course the majority do. But as a nation and how it conducts itself?

Other counties are dealing with populists. None compare to trump. If you multiplied the depraved sexuality of Berlusconi, the indifference to life, law, of Duterte( a lawyer no less) and Putin you would have trump. Except of course trump is very stupid.

trump has sold out Afganistan by dealing under the table with the Taliban without consulting the government. He sold out the Kurds. He breached treaties with Iran( before he withdrew from agreement) Ukraine and NAFTA. Internally the constitution and the rule of law were used as toilet paper.

But aside from those transgressions you mean?

[nigel99 143]

13 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Other counties are dealing with populists. None compare to trump. If you multiplied the depraved sexuality of Berlusconi, the indifference to life, law, of Duterte( a lawyer no less) and Putin you would have trump. Except of course trump is very stupid.

trump has sold out Afganistan by dealing under the table with the Taliban without consulting the government. He sold out the Kurds. He breached treaties with Iran( before he withdrew from agreement) Ukraine and NAFTA. Internally the constitution and the rule of law were used as toilet paper.

But aside from those transgressions you mean?

As an outsider, I would say the US lacks integrity. For all the complaints about Russian interference in your election, it is something the USA/CIA has done for decades around the world.

There is something strange about large corporations and countries, they develop their own identity that is separate from the individuals. I worked at an extremely toxic company, and yet I can’t say a bad thing about any individual- everyone was pretty nice. Point being, I’ve spent a fair bit of time in the US and generally got on with everyone. 

[Phil1111 910]

25 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

As an outsider, I would say the US lacks integrity. For all the complaints about Russian interference in your election, it is something the USA/CIA has done for decades around the world.

There is something strange about large corporations and countries, they develop their own identity that is separate from the individuals. I worked at an extremely toxic company, and yet I can’t say a bad thing about any individual- everyone was pretty nice. Point being, I’ve spent a fair bit of time in the US and generally got on with everyone. 

Well they do poll trustworthiness. U.S. Suffers Greatest Global Decline in Trust   Jan 2020 US News and World Reports.

[nigel99 143]

32 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Well they do poll trustworthiness. U.S. Suffers Greatest Global Decline in Trust   Jan 2020 US News and World Reports.

Thanks interesting read. 

[DJL 232]

On 5/15/2020 at 5:30 PM, jakee said:

That doesn't follow. All the congressional investigations and press conference back biting is one thing, the justice system is another. Letting the president get away with real crimes simply because he's the president is far more corrosive than the possibility that pursuing those crimes can be spun as some kind of partisan action.

The only narrative of this on the news will be that it's a political attack upon a predecessor and an attempt to weaken his party in upcoming elections.  Regardless of what's found in the courts Trump will be remembered as corrupt and useless.  The danger of pursuing him in courts is that it becomes a political tactic to dig dirt on every politician and their supporting staff each time there's a change in party.

[Phil1111 910]

59 minutes ago, DJL said:

The only narrative of this on the news will be that it's a political attack upon a predecessor and an attempt to weaken his party in upcoming elections.  Regardless of what's found in the courts Trump will be remembered as corrupt and useless.  The danger of pursuing him in courts is that it becomes a political tactic to dig dirt on every politician and their supporting staff each time there's a change in party.

I have to agree more with jakee on this although you're not necessarily wrong. The endless back and forth between new governments digging dirt. Is corrosive to the public trust. But IMO the idea that the rule of law is a political tool for a government is worse.

The concept that inspector generals can be fired W/O cause. That there are cabinet posts that can be "acting" indefinitely because the president knows they won't be confirmed. Because they are filled with political loyalists. Together with all the other corrupt actions over the last four years. Leads to complete disenchantment with government.

"Trump will be remembered as corrupt and useless" except for the spin his loyalists will generate forever.

I prefer a hanging in the Rose Garden.But there is the possibility of a sweeping "trump Bill" where the loopholes in law and the constitution are fixed. To prevent the decapitation of a party, of the House, or of the Senate.Of democracy and the rule of law. What such legislation looks like I don't know. Because trump has shown that one corrupt individual can undo everything the US founding fathers never anticipated.