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gowlerk

covid-19

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2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:
On 8/27/2020 at 3:39 PM, FrancoR said:

180.000 today.

Just  for comparison, Germany has a quarter of thepopulation of  the US and had 5 covid  deaths today.

Merkel, scientist with Germany's interests first.. trump, mental dwarf with his Mob family's interests first..

Still trying to figure out how Trump's covid response, or lack thereof is in his family's best interest. . .

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(edited)

Trump's response to Covid sort of reminds me of the mayor in that old TV show called, 'Carter Country'. 

In the show, the mayor character never wanted to deal with ANYTHING controversial or important, and he would just tell people "Handle it, handle it..." and go back to whatever he was doing. Except the mayor was funny, and Trump ISN'T. 

Seems like an eternity ago when "they" said ('THEY? Who the HELL is THEY?'...(Edmond O'Brien from The Wild Bunch) the pandemic would pretty much come to an end by July 1st. Now we're going into September and the light at the end of that tunnel is just a pinpoint in the darkness. Latest estimates say between 16,000-23,000 additional Americans will die from Covid-19 in the next three weeks. (By Sept 19) Hell, in the last six months we've lost almost FOUR TIMES the number of people who were killed in the Vietnam War, and that went on (depending on your start-to-end-of-war calculations) for roughly TEN YEARS, not six months. This isn't 'failure,' it's a friggin national disaster. It's the gift that keeps on giving. 

There will never be charges or a trial, but in my opinion Trump is guilty of manslaughter on a massive scale due to what lawyers call 'depraved indifference'. Sure, people were going to get sick and die due to Covid. But because of his utter indifference to the safety and well-being of the people who voted him into office, and his lack of action and leadership, the hospitals are crowded, the morgues and funeral parlors kept busy, and the graveyards fill. 

At this point, I figure the only thing that will make this disaster come to an end is new leadership...

AND a vaccine that works. 

We can slow the spread of Covid by exercising caution and listening to the health experts. But, like smallpox, we cannot rid ourselves of it without a medical solution.

 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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29 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Still trying to figure out how Trump's covid response, or lack thereof is in his family's best interest. . .

In the short term, ignoring it and downplaying it helps both him and his inner circle, because they remain more popular.

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9 minutes ago, billvon said:

In the short term, ignoring it and downplaying it helps both him and his inner circle, because they remain more popular.

Also Trump is/was more concerned about the stock market than people’s lives. 

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3 minutes ago, billvon said:
33 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Still trying to figure out how Trump's covid response, or lack thereof is in his family's best interest. . .

In the short term, ignoring it and downplaying it helps both him and his inner circle, because they remain more popular.

But you already said that if he took it more seriously so would many of his supporters.

I don't know the numbers, but practically every conservative I know takes covid seriously, except for a couple in-laws according to their facebook posts that my wife showed me. (btw, that's the only reason I'm considering them conservative.)

So far his covid response is the only thing that I've seen hardcore supporters question.

 

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6 minutes ago, Coreece said:

But you already said that if he took it more seriously so would many of his supporters.

Right.  But taking it seriously would have dropped his ratings for a short time, so that wasn't really an option for him.   Only when it became clear that it was actually a catastrophe, and his ratings were dropping anyway, did he start taking it seriously.  And even then, he suggested that his supporters don't wear masks.
 

Quote

I don't know the numbers, but practically every conservative I know takes covid seriously, except for a couple in-laws according to their facebook posts that my wife showed me.



We had a big protest here a while back in downtown San Diego against masks.  At least five hundred people.  Half of them wore MAGA hats or Trump shirts.

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(edited)
12 minutes ago, billvon said:

We had a big protest here a while back in downtown San Diego against masks.  At least five hundred people.  Half of them wore MAGA hats or Trump shirts.

I'm not saying that the majority of the naysayers aren't conservative.  I just think he'd have less conservatives questioning him and who they're going to vote for had he taken it more seriously - but that would've taken foresight, which apparently most politicians lack these days, including Biden and Harris - and demonstrably so.

Edited by Coreece

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Coreece says in part:

Quote

'So far his covid response is the only thing that I've seen hardcore supporters question...'

Well, that's plenty enough I would say. That ONE thing alone, since so MANY Americans have died in the last six months, is MORE than enough. If and when the day comes when they call the election for Joe Biden, he should quote President Gerald Ford in his acceptance speech, the thing he said on national TV on the day Richard Nixon resigned from office:

"Our long national nightmare is over..."

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So at a Trump rally in NH, there was an announcement made asking the crowd to wear masks, as is mandated by the state government -- they booed.

Can you imagine how different their behavior might have been if Trump had said months ago that everyone should be wearing masks, and done so himself? We would be at the new infection / new death rate of Germany.

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Maybe, maybe not.

I agree that in a tight corner masks are better than nothing at all, but some people seem to view face masks as some kind of anti-COVID deus ex-maskina: wear a mask = you can't get infected. And that I do disagree with.

Not hosting gatherings were a lot of people congregate in the first place does a lot more for stopping COVID than merely wearing masks.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Coreece said:

Still trying to figure out how Trump's covid response, or lack thereof is in his family's best interest. . .

Occam's razor should be used here.

The most likely explanation for his lack of response to covid is...he simply doesn't know what to do against something that he can't insult, lie about, or both. So, he's pretty much given up.

Controlling something like covid needs awareness of a) exponential growth b) complex logistics c) the abilities of the federal government. Not to mention being able to understand at least some of the science. He has advisers who can, but that takes away so much of his decision-making ability.

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1 hour ago, olofscience said:

The most likely explanation for his lack of response to covid is...he simply doesn't know what to do against something that he can't insult, lie about, or both. So, he's pretty much given up.

Who knew being POTUS could be hard? The man is simply not up to the job.

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9 hours ago, Coreece said:

Still trying to figure out how Trump's covid response, or lack thereof is in his family's best interest. . .

How about his failure to deal with covid is because he could care less. He cares about watching TV, golfing and 'executive time' but doesn't have the time or inclination to deal with details. Or the issue can just be put within the general scope of stupidity about the nature of pandemics.

It is biting him in the ass though.Trump Hotel in Vancouver closes as company files for bankruptcy. Staff answering phone at front desk said hotel is closed, empty, and staff are gone

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4 hours ago, Baksteen said:

Maybe, maybe not.

I agree that in a tight corner masks are better than nothing at all, but some people seem to view face masks as some kind of anti-COVID deus ex-maskina: wear a mask = you can't get infected. And that I do disagree with.

Not hosting gatherings were a lot of people congregate in the first place does a lot more for stopping COVID than merely wearing masks.

The benefits of wearing a mask is not a binary situation, i.e. maybe-you-get-it, maybe-you-don't. There is evidence that reducing the initial dose of the virus, reduces the severity of the illness.

https://theconversation.com/cloth-masks-do-protect-the-wearer-breathing-in-less-coronavirus-means-you-get-less-sick-143726

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13 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

If and when the day comes when they call the election for Joe Biden, he should quote President Gerald Ford in his acceptance speech, the thing he said on national TV on the day Richard Nixon resigned from office:

"Our long national nightmare is over..."

Hi Robert,

Actually, I think he said it in his first speech to a joint session of Congress.

However, I absolutely agree.

Jerry Baumchen

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23 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Robert,

Actually, I think he said it in his first speech to a joint session of Congress.

However, I absolutely agree.

Jerry Baumchen

Yeah, you're right about that. It was the Congressional address after he took the oath. They put it on TV, yes. I thought he said it from the Oval Office all this time. 

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11 hours ago, headoverheels said:

Can you imagine how different their behavior might have been if Trump had said months ago that everyone should be wearing masks, and done so himself? We would be at the new infection / new death rate of Germany.

Definitely.  Imagine what the response would have been if Trump had tweeted things like "Dems want you to not wear masks - because they want more deaths to make me look bad!  PROVE THEM WRONG!"  Instead, he told his supporters that the reason people wear masks is to show they don't support him.  So his supporters heard that loud and clear - they are not to wear masks if they want to be loyal to Trump.

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9 hours ago, Baksteen said:

I agree that in a tight corner masks are better than nothing at all, but some people seem to view face masks as some kind of anti-COVID deus ex-maskina: wear a mask = you can't get infected. And that I do disagree with.

Not hosting gatherings were a lot of people congregate in the first place does a lot more for stopping COVID than merely wearing masks.

Agreed.  But since some congregations have to happen (food shopping, gas stations, some workplaces etc) masks are our best tool to reduce infection rates in those cases.

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18 hours ago, ryoder said:

The benefits of wearing a mask is not a binary situation, i.e. maybe-you-get-it, maybe-you-don't. There is evidence that reducing the initial dose of the virus, reduces the severity of the illness.

https://theconversation.com/cloth-masks-do-protect-the-wearer-breathing-in-less-coronavirus-means-you-get-less-sick-143726

I do not dispute that. But many people seem to believe that the benefit IS binary: I wear an mask, so I can't get it.

For instance, when the BLM demonstrations were occurring, cities and protest organizers worked together (or at least tried to) t ensure that the demonstration took place in a large enough area to make social distancing between protesters possible. That worked reasonably well after the first few protests. An article in a leading Dutch news platform reported that at the demonstration in Amsterdam too many people showed up spontaneously., so not enough distance could be kept. The authorities held the organization responsible and said that for future demonstrations better planning was necessary. The article then concluded by saying "even though many protestors were wearing masks".

And don't get me started about the people who do not cover their noses , remove their mask to eat/drink in crowded situations etc etc.

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13 hours ago, billvon said:

Agreed.  But since some congregations have to happen (food shopping, gas stations, some workplaces etc) masks are our best tool to reduce infection rates in those cases.

I'm talking about political rallies or sports matches, where a lot of cheering by a lot of people occurs.

Why is cheering bad? Because it is a disturbance of the air like singing. See the choir practice from earlier this year where one sick singer infected 40(?) others.

As for food, I could shop immediately after work like most people do. Instead I wait until seven, when most people are having dinner and the supermarket is a lot more quiet. Also, I shop only once or twice a week.

As for public transport, I have changed my working hours to avoid the rush hour (or what's left of it).

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18 hours ago, billvon said:

Definitely.  Imagine what the response would have been if Trump had tweeted things like "Dems want you to not wear masks - because they want more deaths to make me look bad!  PROVE THEM WRONG!"  Instead, he told his supporters that the reason people wear masks is to show they don't support him.  So his supporters heard that loud and clear - they are not to wear masks if they want to be loyal to Trump.

and i saw the rally on the lawn of the WH. It was all good.

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(edited)
On 8/29/2020 at 2:58 AM, headoverheels said:

We would be at the new infection / new death rate of Germany.


The reason why Germany has a much lower death rate is not just masks. It's masks + social distancing + no massive gatherings + personal responsibility + informed and educated citizens + unified, country-wide oversight and direction + a lot of other stuff that they are doing right.

Masks are only a piece. They are not the solution in itself. It's several factors at work that allow them to be successful where we are not.

Edited by Westerly

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