Green new deal equals magical thinking

[Phil1111 911]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

I will have to remember that.  From your article;

"the fossil fuel industry will bounce back as it always has, and bargain basement oil prices will slow the much-needed transition to green energy."

AKA, RIP GND.

"Green new deal equals magical thinking" is the title of your thread. Yet you quote that green energy is both needed and that oil will slow its very transition. Conceding defeat, are you a Browns fan as well?

[brenthutch 384]

2 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

"Green new deal equals magical thinking" is the title of your thread. Yet you quote that green energy is both needed and that oil will slow its very transition. Conceding defeat, are you a Browns fan as well?

It will be so slow that it will not happen!!!  We will ALL go to our graves with no GND.  ROTFLMAO 

[Phil1111 911]

10 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

It will be so slow that it will not happen!!!  We will ALL go to our graves with no GND.  ROTFLMAO 

I don't know about you but I'm hoping for another 30 years.

[brenthutch 384]

31 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

I don't know about you but I'm hoping for another 30 years.

I hope that for you, and all others on this forum (at a minimum).  But the fact remains that the REAL existential threat of COVID19 has brought into sharp relief the fallacy of the IMIGINARY threat of climate change.  It has given the world a taste of what a no-growth, deindustrialized economy looks like and nobody likes it, and nobody will tolerate it. 

[olofscience 422]

On 1/12/2020 at 2:12 PM, brenthutch said:

Is the planet warming?  In some places yes, in others no, overall by a degree or two.

Is the warming caused by man's activities?  Perhaps.

 

9 hours ago, brenthutch said:

the fallacy of the IMIGINARY threat of climate change

So...is the overall warming imaginary, or is it just the threat that's imaginary? Like how the threat of COVID-19 was imaginary?

 

[brenthutch 384]

2 hours ago, olofscience said:

 

So...is the overall warming imaginary, or is it just the threat that's imaginary? Like how the threat of COVID-19 was imaginary?

 

I believe I said something like,

"the REAL existential threat of COVID19 has brought into sharp relief the fallacy of the IMIGINARY threat of climate change"

And I never said COVID-19 was imaginary. 

[gowlerk 1,915]

3 hours ago, olofscience said:

 

So...is the overall warming imaginary, or is it just the threat that's imaginary? Like how the threat of COVID-19 was imaginary?

 

Are there still people replying to this troll? Fascinating.

[JoeWeber 2,304]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Are there still people replying to this troll? Fascinating.

Don't you love how only market forces can provide proper health care but huge socialist spending programs to save the oil industry are A-O.K?

[kallend 1,632]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Don't you love how only market forces can provide proper health care but huge socialist spending programs to save the oil industry are A-O.K?

Did you forget?  Socialism is only bad if it helps poor people.

[brenthutch 384]

No, if the domestic oil industry can not compete with the low price of Saudi and Russian oil, they will (and should) go bankrupt. Investors and banks will take a haircut, their assets will be sold at a discount.  Others will take up the mantle and the whole process will start again. (its called capitalism)  The winners will be the consumer who will reap the rich rewards of cheap, reliable and plentiful energy. 

The market is a harsh mistress.

Edited April 3, 2020 by brenthutch

[billvon 2,402]

9 hours ago, kallend said:

Did you forget?  Socialism is only bad if it helps poor people.

And if socialism helps rich people it's redefined as "trickle down" or "essential services" or "giving our own money back to us."  On Facebook, a prolific Trump supporter explained that any GOP government program that gave tax money back to people in the form of services or aid wasn't really socialism because it was giving our own tax money back to us,

[brenthutch 384]

9 minutes ago, billvon said:

And if socialism helps rich people it's redefined as "trickle down" or "essential services" or "giving our own money back to us."  On Facebook, a prolific Trump supporter explained that any GOP government program that gave tax money back to people in the form of services or aid wasn't really socialism because it was giving our own tax money back to us,

When one gets more than they give, it becomes socialism.

[JoeWeber 2,304]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

No, if the domestic oil industry can not compete with the low price of Saudi and Russian oil, they will (and should) go bankrupt. Investors and banks will take a haircut, their assets will be sold at a discount.  Others will take up the mantle and the whole process will start again. (its called capitalism)  The winners will be the consumer who will reap the rich rewards of cheap, reliable and plentiful energy. 

The market is a harsh mistress.

Get real. This isn't a philosophy class. This is the way things actually work. Political entreaties and/or socialist bail outs will determine the future of the American oil industry. Oh, but Tesla!

Edited April 3, 2020 by JoeWeber

[JerryBaumchen 1,049]

41 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

The market is a harsh mistress.

Hi Brent,

IMO If only it were so.

How do you feel about the 2008 bail-outs?  For me, I think more banks should have been allowed to go under.

Obviously, Lehman Bros was in very bad shape; but, others were nearly as bad.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[airdvr 197]

My breaking point would be government entities taking 51% or more of my pay.  That's when real socialism starts for me.  I believe there are certain places on the west coast where that is already happening but I can't say for certain.

[wmw999 2,123]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

And if socialism helps rich people it's redefined as "trickle down" or "essential services" or "giving our own money back to us."  On Facebook, a prolific Trump supporter explained that any GOP government program that gave tax money back to people in the form of services or aid wasn't really socialism because it was giving our own tax money back to us,

And that's why you want to make sure that only jobholders get that help, because the others didn't contribute those taxes. I think it's all about payment for services, and not about helping. Different world view.

Wendy P.

[brenthutch 384]

12 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Brent,

IMO If only it were so.

How do you feel about the 2008 bail-outs?  For me, I think more banks should have been allowed to go under.

Obviously, Lehman Bros was in very bad shape; but, others were nearly as bad.

Jerry Baumchen

 

I agree 100%.  Some banks would go under, others would survive, investors would have been hit hard but those are the breaks.  I think it is appalling that the profits are privatized and the losses are socialized, when it comes to large companies.  The car companies and the banks were not going to disappear, they would have been dissolved/bought/sold/reorganized and harsh lessons would have been learned.  Same thing with the oil companies.  Those rigs are not going to go anywhere, that centuries worth of oil and gas is still in the ground, there is still a demand for it and SOMBODY, will fulfill it.  

If you had told be back in the '90s that there would no longer be a Merril Lynch, I would have said you are bonkers, yet here we are and Merril is an obscure wealth management subsidiary of BofA, life goes on.  We should let the market decide winners and loosers,  not the government. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by brenthutch

[wmw999 2,123]

6 hours ago, airdvr said:

My breaking point would be government entities taking 51% or more of my pay.  That's when real socialism starts for me.  I believe there are certain places on the west coast where that is already happening but I can't say for certain.

I live in the state sometimes called Taxachusetts. We pay federal tax (though as retirees, we don't pay for SS yet, but we're not collecting it yet either), along with a 5% state income tax, and a 6% sales tax. Our vehicle tax is about $100/vehicle, and our property tax is about $6000. So we're not even close to 51%, and we have plenty of possessions that are taxed. Our income-based tax burden is noticeably under 25%. To me, that's just not onerous, when you consider that out of that we get fire/EMS and police, roads and road maintenance, schools/educated people, tax support for hospitals, military, the social programs that help people around us with less, as well as supporting the general infrastructure that maintains and regulates the structure of government.

I may not actually use the military, but they're necessary. I may not use the social programs, but having them in an organized fashion means that people who aren't members of this church or the other can still get aid, even ugly and/or nasty people, and it doesn't depend on one heroic person -- there's a system to coordinate it. 

I'd willingly pay more if some amount of healthcare were included, above the "we don't know who you are/you have no insurance" basic care you get now. I have no vested interest in protecting the insurance industry, but there will always, in any non-totalitarian system, be room for above-the-general-level medical, educational, and any other infrastructure if you have money and/or connections.

Wendy P.

[Phil1111 911]

'Many people mistakenly view humans as principally consumers and polluters rather than producers and stewards. Consequently, they ignore our potential, as bearers of God's image, to add to the earth's abundance… Our position, informed by revelation and confirmed by reason and experience, views human stewardship that unlocks the potential in creation for all the earth's inhabitants as good..

Above from the Evangelical manifesto's on Global warming.

Why White Evangelicals Don’t Care About Climate Change

[brenthutch 384]

In this new COVID19 world, high density living, public transportation, bike sharing and reusable grocery bags make less sense now than they ever did.    

[JoeWeber 2,304]

31 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

In this new COVID19 world, high density living, public transportation, bike sharing and reusable grocery bags make less sense now than they ever did.    

What is it that no one seems to be able to come up with the perfect solution for anything? This is simply more proof that if we all drove stretch Hummers that we also lived in none of the current problems would exist.

Edited April 3, 2020 by JoeWeber

[brenthutch 384]

18 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

What is it that no one seems to be able to come up with the perfect solution for anything? This is simply more proof that if we all drove stretch Hummers that we also lived in none of the current problems would exist.

??????

[JoeWeber 2,304]

5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

In this new COVID19 world, high density living, public transportation, bike sharing and reusable grocery bags make less sense now than they ever did.

??????, ?

It was a sarcastic response to your absurd post above. WTF goes on in your mind? Do you imagine everyone could have a ranch in the wide open spaces of Wyoming if they just applied themselves enough? Apparently you believe that public transportation makes no sense and never did. Same with less trash in the dumps or grabbing a public bike in the college towns where you rent housing to college professors. You are so bent sideways by your ideology that it's laughable.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by JoeWeber

[billvon 2,402]

9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

WTF goes on in your mind?

He's thinking right now "I got Joe again!"

[JoeWeber 2,304]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

He's thinking right now "I got Joe again!"

As opposed to Ken who is thinking: "He got Joe, again. What a dumb ass."

Edited April 3, 2020 by JoeWeber
To emphasize that I am a dumb ass