Green new deal equals magical thinking

[brenthutch 383]

15 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

The next few months is not a good measure. The next few years. The horse and carriage business was destroyed by the automotive industry, which didn’t make up for all the jobs for a long time  

As an industry wanes, people just keep using the old (whatever) rather than buying a shiny new one every couple of years 

Wendy P. 

Didn’t we do this during the Obama administration?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

How so?  You guys say that government subsidies prop up fossil fuel companies.

That is indeed the strawman. 

[billvon 2,396]

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

BTW I say harsh regulations on fossil fuel producers will cost jobs.  Biden says it will create millions.  Again we will find out in the next few months. 

Well, Trump was about as laissez-faire as they get - and he cost the United States three million jobs.

Unemployment went down under Obama, who tended to regulate fossil fuel industries (8.3 to 4.7)
Unemployment went up under GWB, who tended to remove regulations (4.3 to 7.8)
Unemployment went down under Clinton, who was pretty middle of the road (7.1 to 4.2)
Unemployment went up under Bush 41, who tended to remove regulations (5.2 to 7.3)

So history is not on your side.

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Well, Trump was about as laissez-faire as they get - and he cost the United States three million jobs.

Unemployment went down under Obama, who tended to regulate fossil fuel industries (8.3 to 4.7)
Unemployment went up under GWB, who tended to remove regulations (4.3 to 7.8)
Unemployment went down under Clinton, who was pretty middle of the road (7.1 to 4.2)
Unemployment went up under Bush 41, who tended to remove regulations (5.2 to 7.3)

So history is not on your side.

Trump was more laissez faire than any of them and prior the the black swan event of the China virus, unemployment was 3.5%, so the facts are not on your side.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

12 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Trump was more laissez faire than any of them and prior the the black swan event of the China virus, unemployment was 3.5%, so the facts are not on your side.

Even at that point, more actual jobs had been created under the Obama Administration.

[billvon 2,396]

18 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Trump was more laissez faire than any of them and prior the the black swan event of the China virus, unemployment was 3.5%, so the facts are not on your side.

?? Right.  But the effect of the pandemic - which was a direct result of his laissez-faire "do nothing except golf" approach to public health - was a huge loss of jobs.

So again, actual facts prove you wrong.

[brenthutch 383]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

Even at that point, more actual jobs had been created under the Obama Administration.

It is hard to create more jobs when everybody already has one.  The federal reserve considers five percent to be “full employment”  

 

https://www.roberthalf.com/blog/job-market/february-2020-jobs-report-employers-add-273000-jobs

[SkyDekker 1,121]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

It is hard to create more jobs when everybody already has one.  The federal reserve considers five percent to be “full employment”  

 

https://www.roberthalf.com/blog/job-market/february-2020-jobs-report-employers-add-273000-jobs

So how do you get to 1.5% past full employment? By giving it 110% effort?

You can cherry pick all you want. It has been a while since a president left office with worse employment numbers than when he started. Trump is that president.

[brenthutch 383]

2 minutes ago, billvon said:

?? Right.  But the effect of the pandemic - which was a direct result of his laissez-faire "do nothing except golf" approach to public health - was a huge loss of jobs.

So again, actual facts prove you wrong.

Really?  If that were the case every country that did not have Trump as their president would be doing just fine.  And Biden wouldn’t have said “there is nothing we can do to change the trajectory of the virus in the next several months” 

[SkyDekker 1,121]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

Really?  If that were the case every country that did not have Trump as their president would be doing just fine.  And Biden wouldn’t have said “there is nothing we can do to change the trajectory of the virus in the next several months” 

No, that would not be the case. That is only the case if you cannot comprehend anything beyond: black - white.

[brenthutch 383]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

So how do you get to 1.5% past full employment? By giving it 110% effort?

You can cherry pick all you want. 

It’s not cherry picking, it was the state of the economy pre-covid.  

[brenthutch 383]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

No, that would not be the case. That is only the case if you cannot comprehend anything beyond: correct and incorrect 

FIFY

[SkyDekker 1,121]

2 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

It’s not cherry picking, it was the state of the economy pre-covid.  

At that point Trump had created less jobs than Obama. And then he mishandled the pandemic and ended his term with worse employment than when he started his term. Once again a Democrat has to come in and fix what a Republican fucked up. Your history is filled with that same thing happening over and over again.

Learning from history is definitely not something Americans are very good at.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

17 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

At that point Trump had created less jobs than Obama. And then he mishandled the pandemic and ended his term with worse employment than when he started his term. Once again a Democrat has to come in and fix what a Republican fucked up. Your history is filled with that same thing happening over and over again.

Learning from history is definitely not something some Americans are very good at.

Hi Sky,

FIFY

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 1,623]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/

General Motors to eliminate gasoline and diesel light-duty cars and SUVs by 2035.

U.S. automaker says it will invest heavily in electric vehicles and become carbon neutral by 2040.

[Phil1111 910]

History made: Renewable energy surpassed fossil fuels for European electricity in 2020

But they don't have dinosaurs in the EU.

[brenthutch 383]

You have a point, the younger demographic clearly trends toward the left. However the young have a tendency to grow older, and as someone once said “if you are not a liberal in your twenties , you have no heart, if you are still a liberal in your thirties you have no brain” 

[Phil1111 910]

How Fracking Became America's Money Pit

Above is a well made 17 minute video on how fracking screwed US investors out of a third of a trillion dollars and left a trail of destitute widows,orphans. It doesn't truly cover the damage to the environment, to farmers wells and the costs to clean it all up. That will be borne by US taxpayers.

Typical oil.

[brenthutch 383]

32 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

How Fracking Became America's Money Pit

Above is a well made 17 minute video on how fracking screwed US investors out of a third of a trillion dollars and left a trail of destitute widows,orphans. It doesn't truly cover the damage to the environment, to farmers wells and the costs to clean it all up. That will be borne by US taxpayers.

Typical oil.

That is the best of both worlds, the evil capitalist take it in the shorts, while the American economy and consumer win!  Companies go bankrupt rocks don’t.

And to think, you guys were talking about “peak oil” just a few years ago.  Obviously  we have no shortage of clean, reliable inexpensive oil and gas.  Thank you for the video supporting my position.

Edited February 4, 2021 by brenthutch

[mistercwood 287]

[Phil1111 910]

4 hours ago, mistercwood said:

I need to head to port because Naegleria fowleri has infected the fish.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Phil1111

[brenthutch 383]

Obama’s undersecretary of energy for science:

<iframe title="vimeo-player" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/526367277" width="640" height="395" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

<iframe title="vimeo-player" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/526365567" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

“Physicist Dr. Steve Koonin: First of all, I think everybody agrees that the globe has warmed about a degree from 1900 until the present. And that warming is due to some combination of human influences and natural influences. But beyond that, almost no severe weather event shows any detectable trend. There are no long-term trends in droughts or floods around the globe — in severe weather events like thunderstorms.

Sea level is rising at the spectacular rate of one foot per century and was doing it at about the same rate 80 years ago. In the US, record high temperatures are no more frequent than they were in the 1900s. I can go on and on. No detectable human influences on hurricanes. This is not Steve talking, this is what’s in those reports often explicitly, but sometimes a little bit obscured and you got to read closely to find it.”

Some of you don’t want to hear the truth from me, maybe you will listen to an Obama guy.  He goes on to discuss the importance of natural gas and the unreliability of wind and solar.

 

[wmw999 2,120]

Leave it. This thread is now dead. You are free to contribute, but hornet-stirring for your own entertainment and feelings of perceived superiority are not really what Sangiro wanted in on his front porch.

Wendy P.