Russiagate

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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thing until they bought and paid for lies leak them out and then use them as information in a fisa court.

Who is they? You are alledging a connection between the Clinton campaign and Republican DOJ and FBI people. Do you have any evidence?

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But Hillary has been Crossing Lines for 20 years and nobody gives a damn.

She has been through many, many investigations. None have found criminal wrongdoing.

In stead of acknowledging that, you are resorting to pointing to some Deep State entity, again without nay evidence.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

There is no Trump Russia!

Russia meddled in the election. Trump was elected president during that election.

There is Trump Russia.

The rest is all still very much under investigation and it is too early to say what Trump knew or didn't know.

There is no way to claim that this meddling, which is not in dispute, resulted in Trump getting elected. There is also no way to say that enough people were not swayed. At this point, that really doesn't matter.

you got the CNN Democrat talking points down pat. You are also proof of those that have been LED around by the media to believe something that's not even close to true. Trump was a better candidate and he beat and inferior candidate. The Democrats will never get over that and I don't care

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

rushmc

even your post here that I'm replying to shows that you have no idea what's going on. Trump jr. Meeting with whomever doesn't mean a damn thing. And when I point out that others have done the same thing you say it's irrelevant. So what's the point of even trying to have a discussion with you?

and note that I said earlier in this thread that Hillary and her people meeting to get dirt on Trump didn't mean a damn thing until they bought and paid for lies leak them out and then use them as information in a fisa court. At that point of line was crossed. But Hillary has been Crossing Lines for 20 years and nobody gives a damn.

Others doing the same thing is irrelevant because others doing it doesn't make it write or wrong either way. It is deflection.

That doesn't matter, below is very important.

You are saying, to be clear, that Trump Jr. and Trump's campaign chairman meeting with a Russian lawyer to get dirt on Hilary Clinton has nothing to do with the allegation that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia??

[rushmc 18]

That's absolutely correct because it means absolutely nothing.

politically it's probably not too pretty. Legally and in the sphere of the election it really doesn't mean anything.

And the simple fact that you don't care that anybody else did it shows that you just have crocodile tears about the whole subject.

That's where my frustration comes

now that all said, have you seen the reporting that come out about the just-released emails dealing with Bruce Ohr and his wife and Christopher Steele?

Long after steel was to no longer be dealt with by the FBI.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mistercwood 287]

rushmc

And the simple fact that you don't care that anybody else did it shows that you just have crocodile tears about the whole subject.

Oh dear. You mean, like how Hillary was directly advised by her (Republican) predecessor to get her own email server the same as they'd been using, since it worked better and was more secure than the "official" one?

Something like that?

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[billvon 2,400]

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You are saying, to be clear, that Trump Jr. and Trump's campaign chairman meeting with a Russian lawyer to get dirt on Hilary Clinton has nothing to do with the allegation that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia??

Of course he is.

I have to wonder what you're trying to accomplish here. Do you think you will somehow stimulate an untapped font of critical thinking among Trump supporters by asking questions? That suddenly they will say "hey, you're right! This DOES look suspicious. I'll now support Mueller's investigation." Of course they won't. To them you are the enemy; someone opposed to their leader.

Tomorrow Trump could walk down Fifth Avenue and shoot someone in the face. And when Sarah was asked about it, she'd say "why are you focusing on something irrelevant, and not all the great things Trump has done?" Rush would say "He didn't do it! And even if he did, it's not that big a deal. Besides, Obama did it first." Other supporters would attack the "drive by media" for reporting on the murder and not on an illegal immigrant who raped a local storekeeper.

For diehard Trump fans there's literally nothing he could do that would sway them, and nothing you can say to them that will change their minds. Trump himself has admitted this. For them, his dishonesty, corruption and criminality are features, not bugs. It often aligns with their values and experiences ("I was accused of sexual assault just like he was, and I did almost NOTHING!") But the overarching theme is that those traits anger liberals, which means that they are pluses to Trump supporters. And to people who enjoy trolling, they are gold.

This is an open forum and you can post whatever you like, but you may find it frustrating if you hope to get some logical concessions out of the people you are talking to here.

[jakee 1,255]

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The special counsel by law was designed to investigate a known crime.

That's simply not true. In fact the Attorney General is required to investigate certain allegations against the president, and to appoint a Special Prosecutor if it's not obvious that the allegations are frivolous. If you think about why the Special Prosecutor exists (to avoid conflicts of interest in investigating the investigator's boss) then your interpretation makes no logical sense. If you need to prove the crime before appointing a Special Prosecutor then the conflict of interest will already play out in full before you can do so, in which case what's the point of the office?

Rush, why do you think it is the way you have stated it? Who told you it was, or which laws did you look up? Can you link to any information that backs up your version of the law?

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there's no having a logical discussion with those who think that somehow the only reason Trump is President is because he colluded with Russia.

Then you can have a logical discussion with pretty much everyone here.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

mistercwood

***
And the simple fact that you don't care that anybody else did it shows that you just have crocodile tears about the whole subject.

Oh dear. You mean, like how Hillary was directly advised by her (Republican) predecessor to get her own email server the same as they'd been using, since it worked better and was more secure than the "official" one?

Something like that?

It was less secure, illegal and known to be hacked.

Where the hell do you get your talking points???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

It is true.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

rushmc

That's absolutely correct because it means absolutely nothing.

politically it's probably not too pretty. Legally and in the sphere of the election it really doesn't mean anything.

And the simple fact that you don't care that anybody else did it shows that you just have crocodile tears about the whole subject.

That's where my frustration comes

now that all said, have you seen the reporting that come out about the just-released emails dealing with Bruce Ohr and his wife and Christopher Steele?

Long after steel was to no longer be dealt with by the FBI.

I care about what other people did. It just doesn’t belong in a thread about Trump and Russia.

Getting dirt on an opponent is in violation of the USC. Simply put it is illegal.


I have not seen that yet, been busy today.

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

billvon

Quote

You are saying, to be clear, that Trump Jr. and Trump's campaign chairman meeting with a Russian lawyer to get dirt on Hilary Clinton has nothing to do with the allegation that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia??

Of course he is.

I have to wonder what you're trying to accomplish here. Do you think you will somehow stimulate an untapped font of critical thinking among Trump supporters by asking questions? That suddenly they will say "hey, you're right! This DOES look suspicious. I'll now support Mueller's investigation." Of course they won't. To them you are the enemy; someone opposed to their leader.

Tomorrow Trump could walk down Fifth Avenue and shoot someone in the face. And when Sarah was asked about it, she'd say "why are you focusing on something irrelevant, and not all the great things Trump has done?" Rush would say "He didn't do it! And even if he did, it's not that big a deal. Besides, Obama did it first." Other supporters would attack the "drive by media" for reporting on the murder and not on an illegal immigrant who raped a local storekeeper.

For diehard Trump fans there's literally nothing he could do that would sway them, and nothing you can say to them that will change their minds. Trump himself has admitted this. For them, his dishonesty, corruption and criminality are features, not bugs. It often aligns with their values and experiences ("I was accused of sexual assault just like he was, and I did almost NOTHING!") But the overarching theme is that those traits anger liberals, which means that they are pluses to Trump supporters. And to people who enjoy trolling, they are gold.

This is an open forum and you can post whatever you like, but you may find it frustrating if you hope to get some logical concessions out of the people you are talking to here.

I didn’t realize Rush was so detached from reality. I know he’s older, likely from the south, and poorley educated. I understand the issues that come with that but I talk to a lot of trump supporters and I’m friends with quite a few. The majority of them just don’t know about this stuff. The live and work in an echo chamber. Before I graduated college I used to work with mental health patients. Many of them you can’t tell anything, they have to come up with it on their own. By asking them questions it causes them to think of the answer that you would have told them in the first place. The other thing asking questions does is show ones mental state. I’m not saying Rush has a mental illness, he displays a few symptoms but I mostly attribute that to his upbringing.

The funny thing is, to most of the US I’m a moderate republican. Granted to the Bible Belt I’m probably a moderate Democrat, such is the life of a moderate. But to a trump supporter it’s eithe Trump or nothing. I know many of them can’t see the paralells with modern dictators and cult leaders but I digress. Anyway, I talk politics a lot with people that have way more knowledge and experience in it than myself. There are good reasons to support trump politically, not as a republican since he shits all over the party values (free trade, family values) but as a policy maker. Unfortunately all of that is being undercut by his administrations curuption. There is small whispers about what’s going to happen if trump runs in 2020 and loses, or worse wins and is then impeached. Will there be a peacfull transfer of power? Will the diehard trump fans just crawl back into their caves quietly? The republicans and trumpians know that this is it. If they don’t take back and hold the government the backlash from this administration is going to be so bad it may destroy the current political system.

[jakee 1,255]

rushmc

It is true.

It is not true.

If you think it is true, show me the law which states it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,400]

>I didn’t realize Rush was so detached from reality.

He's not. He's just a single issue voter - he opposes Democrats. Anything that damages Democrats, he supports. That's been true for as long as I've seen him post on here. I am sure he realizes a lot of what you say is true, but he's not going to acknowledge it - because it's a game to him, and acknowledging what you say means he "loses the game." Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity etc give him the playbook for the game, and he's learned it well.

BTW there are lots of other single-issue posters on here on all sorts of topics - guns, abortion, Islamophobia. There are some people who hate Republicans as much as Rush hates Democrats. Trump supporters have it a bit harder because they have to "talk around" all his corrupt behavior, but that's a difference in degree, not in fundamental approach.

>The funny thing is, to most of the US I’m a moderate republican.

Here I am a flaming liberal, since skydiving has something of a conservative bent. (Might be the influence from all the military who go into skydiving.) On science forums I am a stinking conservative because I support things like nuclear power and natural gas as a bridge fuel, because I don't think raising the minimum wage is a good idea, because I think we should balance our budget etc.

>Will there be a peacfull transfer of power? Will the diehard trump fans just crawl back
>into their caves quietly?

I would like to think that will happen - but then there's Qanon.

[DanG 1]

Quote

I would like to think that will happen - but then there's Qanon.

Someone needs to start working the narrative that Trump's impeachment or election loss is part of his master plan. Despite appearances he will still be president, but have more freedom to work behind the scenes to bring down the Democrat child sex rings.

- Dan G

[Phil1111 911]

Twenty five percent of Americans think the same way as Marc. Likely he is but midstream in his ability to parrot the trump cult views in his own way.

At trump rallies there are still many willing to appear behind him, on stage and cheer his racist, his idiotic economic ideas.

Sure Marc trolls, but more than fifty percent of everything out of trumps mouth is trolling. The balance direct appeals to his base.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Giuliani states that The Dotard is more than willing to commit perjury.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/12/politics/rudy-giuliani-michael-flynn-question-cnntv/index.html

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,400]

To sum up:

Trump asks Comey to stop investigating Flynn. Comey says no.

Giuliani confirms Trump asked Comey to stop: "He didn't direct him to do that. What he said was, can you, can you give him a break."

Stephanopoulos confirms it: "Comey says he took it as direction."

Now Giuliani claims the conversation never happened to begin with. "There was no conversation about Michael Flynn. . . . All of the sudden in May he says he felt obstructed. He felt pressured by that comment, 'you should go easy on Flynn.' So we maintain the President didn't say that."

You can almost see the sweat dripping down his face - "He didn't say it. It was a mistake! I SWEAR TO GOD, HE DIDN'T SAY IT!"

[yoink 321]

WAIT! Obama said it first!!!

[rushmc 18]

From the North, Iowa to be exact.
17 years a lineman and my last 8 years years as an operations manager.

Ya,. I am so uneducated

And you wonder why I spend so little energy on those who know they got it all figured out.

Oh, I can inspect and repack your reserve too


And the shit that's going on with all of this that you don't know about is unbelievable

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[yoink 321]

rushmc

And the shit that's going on with all of this that you don't know about is unbelievable

Sure.

It's far more likely that you're the only one who's got it all figured out and the other 98% of people here (some of whom can inspect and repack reserves too) are blind, deaf and stupid...

Makes as much sense as the rest of your arguments, I guess.

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

rushmc

From the North, Iowa to be exact.
17 years a lineman and my last 8 years years as an operations manager.

Ya,. I am so uneducated

And you wonder why I spend so little energy on those who know they got it all figured out.

Oh, I can inspect and repack your reserve too


And the shit that's going on with all of this that you don't know about is unbelievable

Oh your a lineman, that explains a lot. One of my best friends is a lineman and through him I know quite a few of them. Don’t get me wrong being a lineman is an important job. I was right about the right wing echo chamber. I was wrong on the state, that was just an assessment based on the dialect of English you use. I also did say that English trade could be attributed to education/profession and it seems like I nailed that one on the head. Also, you’re in the IBEW and far right on the political spectrum. Best thing is you probably don’t understand what so funny about that statement. How many times have you voted against you own interests just so minorities and democrats lose?

When I say educated I mean a college degree, not trade school or working your way to journeyman. I say that because trained and educated are not the same thing. You could be an excellent lineman but know absolutely nothing about macroeconomics or sociology. There is a reason college graduates are more well rounded than those who attend trade schools. Being a rigger isn't hard either. Just takes a bit of time and effort.

I looked up those emails you wrote about, I also frequent britbert/infowars to keep in the loop on what kind of things the far right is reading.

I do know that no matter what, Muller should complete his investigation. They can argue in court if the investigation was brought illegally. For now let Muller drain the swamp, draining the swamp is something you wanted.. Unless drain the swamp was just a dog whistle for getting rid of democrats.

You would rather trump worked directly with Russia than Hilary win. It’s fine, you have shown your colors. We know you would chose trump over America.

[nigel99 144]

Hey Leeroy,

I think that post is in very poor taste and to me comes across as condescending and quite possibly a personal attack.

I’ve got friends who range from lawyers and surgeons through to escorts and postmen, you get arseholes and nice people in all professions. A college degree doesn’t make you politically savvy.

As far as trump goes my previous manager has a masters in engineering, lives in California and is a strong trump supporter. He is not a stupid man at all, but he does have a very narrow view of the world.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[rushmc 18]

Russia had nothing to do with Trump's victory. That is the huge point you refuse to see.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 126]

rushmc

Russia had nothing to do with Trump's victory. That is the huge point you refuse to see.

It does not have to have happened for a crime to be present. That is the huge point you refuse to see.

[mr2mk1g 10]

rushmc

Russia had nothing to do with Trump's victory. That is the huge point you refuse to see.

That point's been conceded repeatedly. It's not that people refuse to see it, it's that it's irrelevant.

If I conspire with person A to murder person B, if I don't manage to actually kill person B, (say I only wing him, miss altogether or get caught before I even do anything), it doesn't matter, I'd still be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.