Russiagate

[normiss 622]

Making a major issue of 76,000 jobs in a dying industry is stupid.

[DJL 232]

wolfriverjoe

***
They're also constituents who need to be represented. If they can't be convinced then the message wasn't good enough. Hillary shot herself in the foot every time she said something insulting to them or said that coal miners would lose their jobs.

I won't disagree with HRC "shooting herself in the foot", but the idea that the president represents constituents is:

A- wrong. That's the job of Congress.

B - If any one expected Trump to represent anyone's interests than his own, well...

Back to stupid gullible and ignorant.

No, I'm pretty sure the President needs to represent constituents, regardless of what's written in the job description. Let's not parry too much on the direct link between voter and President.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Phil1111 911]

wolfriverjoe

***
They're also constituents who need to be represented. If they can't be convinced then the message wasn't good enough. Hillary shot herself in the foot every time she said something insulting to them or said that coal miners would lose their jobs.

I won't disagree with HRC "shooting herself in the foot", but the idea that the president represents constituents is:

A- wrong. That's the job of Congress.

B - If any one expected Trump to represent anyone's interests than his own, well...

Back to stupid gullible and ignorant.

Many voters are motivated by single interests. For example i know many gun owners that vote solely on the issue of who is best for gun ownership rights. Some small businessmen hate the idea of paying health care premiums for employees. Whoever strips these expenses or small business regulations for them. Has their vote.

National interests, scandals, lies and party politics are all water off a ducks back. So for a coal miner for example trump can do no wrong because he ended some environmental regulations already.

IMO both HRC and hubby Bill have enough baggage for 5-10 nominees. trump 100x that. But baggage is ignored by those that see government and policy in a few selective issues. That define their voting motivations. That doesn't make them stupid. Or ignorant.

But the long term policy, legislation and initiatives of those they elect. Can in the end bite them in the ass in ways they never imagine.

[DJL 232]

normiss

Making a major issue of 76,000 jobs in a dying industry is stupid.

Pun sort of intended (and I know you understand this) but it's a sort of canary industry emblematic of hardworking Americans. She could have said she was going to bring new jobs and industry to the areas where coal mining jobs are decreasing. Instead she said, "We're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business."

Wups.

You don't need to go deeper that Southpark references "They took er Jerbs!!!" to know that the Chevy/Ford truck driving West Virginia crowd has selective hearing.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,402]

Quote

Well, if they believed (among other things) that Obama was Kenyan and Muslim, Hilary was responsible for the deaths at Benghazi, Trump was a successful businessman or that the Russians had nothing to do with the campaign, then they are ignorant, stupid and gullible.

If they believe that Mexicans are rapists, Muslims are terrorists and that it's ok to treat women like objects, then they are deplorable.

Well, that's not very politically correct. I think the correct terms are "ethically challenged Americans" and "special-emotion Americans."

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

DJL

No, I'm pretty sure the President needs to represent constituents, regardless of what's written in the job description. Let's not parry too much on the direct link between voter and President.

Well, yes and no.

This goes back to what I remember of basic Civics (middle school level). I may have been taught wrong, or maybe am remembering wrong, but here goes:

House represents the people. Direct vote, assigned by population.

Senate represents the states. Originally chosen by the state governments (which has been changed), assigned 2 per state, regardless of population.

President represents the whole country. Elected by the electoral college, based on vote of people, only one person in the office. The idea of the electoral college was originally so that if the populace elected a president who was bad for the country, they could over-rule it.

Now, obviously, the people will elect a president that they think best represents their interests (whether it be single issue like guns or abortion or a "whole package" on a wide variety of issues). Same with the senators.

But the president still represents the country as a whole. Whether it be abroad (like the G-20), or or here at home (like health care or the immigrant issue).

A bit of semantics and perhaps a bit pedantic.

And again, to expect Trump to put anyone or anything ahead of himself is pretty foolish.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DJL 232]

Quote

And again, to expect Trump to put anyone or anything ahead of himself is pretty foolish.

I thought it was funny when Redstate or some equivalent created a stink about the quantity of American Flags on the Dem convention stage compared to the the GOP Convention. They of course didn't zoom out to show what Trump thought was actually important:

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/republican-convention3.jpg?quality=85&w=594

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

DJL

Quote

And again, to expect Trump to put anyone or anything ahead of himself is pretty foolish.

I thought it was funny when Redstate or some equivalent created a stink about the quantity of American Flags on the Dem convention stage compared to the the GOP Convention. They of course didn't zoom out to show what Trump thought was actually important:

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/republican-convention3.jpg?quality=85&w=594

And, of course, how many flags are on stage is a far, far better measure of a candidate's suitability for office that, say, what he says publicly about women or minorities or the disabled. Or how many times he's declared bankruptcy, or how many times he's been sued for non-payment or fraud or discrimination (we really need a sarcasm font).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ryoder 1,390]

wolfriverjoe

President represents the whole country. Elected by the electoral college, based on vote of people, only one person in the office. The idea of the electoral college was originally so that if the populace elected a president who was bad for the country, they could over-rule it.

A recent recent pet project has been studying constitutional law.
I've read a textbook, and listened to hours of lectures by Yale law prof Akhil Amar.
The following is his take on the electoral college: It exists purely because of slavery.

Evidence:

1. At the time the constitution was created, slavery was a very divisive topic between the North & South states. Due to the demographics of the voters (free, white, adult males), if the South joined the new union, they would be outvoted at every turn. For this reason, they were showing reluctance to ratify it. A carrot was needed to get the South to join.

So this was added: Slaves would count 3/5 of a free person for the purpose of number of House reps, *and* number of electoral votes. Since some the the Southern states had even more slaves than freemen, this made a huge difference. So large was this difference that the South dominated the House enough to prevent any chance of abolition. 8 of the first 9 POTUS were from the South.

2. The constitution derived much influence for the office of POTUS and the House from pre-existing state constitution law on governors and state houses. But not one state ever had anything like the 3/5 rule. More evidence that it was created just to pull the South into ratifying the new constitution.

3. The electors to the Electoral College are prohibited from holding elected office. They meet just one day. Many states make it a minor crime not to vote according to how they are pledged. These are not the "wise elders" of the government ready to overrule the unwashed masses. They are nobodies. They are "potted plants". (Last line is exact words of Prof Amar).

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,402]

Latest updates:

Spicer flat-out contradicts Trump. Spicer: “There was nothing as far as we know that would lead anyone to believe” that the meeting wasn't about orphans. Trump: "Most politicians would have gone to a meeting like the one Don jr attended in order to get info on an opponent. That's politics!”

Someone is lying.

The mystery 8th person at the meeting has been identified. He is Ike Kaveladze, a senior vice president at a company Trump partnered with during one of his Russian ventures.

[normiss 622]

Russia is threatening retaliation for the US taking the compound and not returning it

All this winning is getting tiresome.

[SkyDekker 1,128]

billvon

Latest updates:

Spicer flat-out contradicts Trump. Spicer: “There was nothing as far as we know that would lead anyone to believe” that the meeting wasn't about orphans. Trump: "Most politicians would have gone to a meeting like the one Don jr attended in order to get info on an opponent. That's politics!”

Someone is lying.

The mystery 8th person at the meeting has been identified. He is Ike Kaveladze, a senior vice president at a company Trump partnered with during one of his Russian ventures.

Also goes by Irakly and has been accused previously of Russian money laundering.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/29/business/laundering-of-money-seen-as-easy.html

[billvon 2,402]

See? No big deal. Junior just lied about meeting with a Russian spy and a Russian money launderer who promised to get him very sensitive dirt on Hillary Clinton, because Russia wanted to help Trump to win the election. It's a big nothingburger.

Now, if Junior had used the wrong email server . . . .

[rushmc 18]

billvon

See? No big deal. Junior just lied about meeting with a Russian spy and a Russian money launderer who promised to get him very sensitive dirt on Hillary Clinton, because Russia wanted to help Trump to win the election. It's a big nothingburger.

Now, if Junior had used the wrong email server . . . .

Here we go again. The fake news claim that Russia wanted Trump to win the election. Bill you're losing it... if I'm wrong produce the evidence

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,632]

Looks like the rats are turning on each other.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/07/19/trump-blasts-ag-sessions-for-recusing-himself-from-the-russia-probe/?utm_term=.b88a8f7d348b

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wan2doit 6]

Phil1111

******
They're also constituents who need to be represented. If they can't be convinced then the message wasn't good enough. Hillary shot herself in the foot every time she said something insulting to them or said that coal miners would lose their jobs.

I won't disagree with HRC "shooting herself in the foot", but the idea that the president represents constituents is:

A- wrong. That's the job of Congress.

B - If any one expected Trump to represent anyone's interests than his own, well...

Back to stupid gullible and ignorant.

Many voters are motivated by single interests. For example i know many gun owners that vote solely on the issue of who is best for gun ownership rights. Some small businessmen hate the idea of paying health care premiums for employees. Whoever strips these expenses or small business regulations for them. Has their vote.

National interests, scandals, lies and party politics are all water off a ducks back. So for a coal miner for example trump can do no wrong because he ended some environmental regulations already.

IMO both HRC and hubby Bill have enough baggage for 5-10 nominees. trump 100x that. But baggage is ignored by those that see government and policy in a few selective issues. That define their voting motivations. That doesn't make them stupid. Or ignorant.

But the long term policy, legislation and initiatives of those they elect. Can in the end bite them in the ass in ways they never imagine.

And after the tipping point some folks just want to see someone else be miserable for a change and for them to feel the shaft a bit.

Yes - voters can be vindictive on top of being deplorable and the vindictive streak may not be over especially where some Republican senators perceived as obstructionists lately or in the near future are concerned..

Gonna be an interesting next year or two - for sure not boring.

[JerryBaumchen 1,049]

Hi John,

Quote

Looks like the rats are turning on each other.

Or the big rat is feeding the smaller rats into the cannon fire.

Trump would through his own children under the bus to save himself. I would have mentioned something about throwing his wife under the bus; however, we already know what value he places on his wife(s).

Remember the early days of Watergate: What does he know and when did he know it.

Hmmmmm,

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,257]

rushmc

***See? No big deal. Junior just lied about meeting with a Russian spy and a Russian money launderer who promised to get him very sensitive dirt on Hillary Clinton, because Russia wanted to help Trump to win the election. It's a big nothingburger.

Now, if Junior had used the wrong email server . . . .

Here we go again. The fake news claim that Russia wanted Trump to win the election. Bill you're losing it... if I'm wrong produce the evidence
Once again your reading comprehension fails you. Trump Jr did go to that meeting because he was promised dirt on Hillary Clinton as part of the Russian effort to help Trump win the election.

Trump Jr himself provided that evidence.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

******See? No big deal. Junior just lied about meeting with a Russian spy and a Russian money launderer who promised to get him very sensitive dirt on Hillary Clinton, because Russia wanted to help Trump to win the election. It's a big nothingburger.

Now, if Junior had used the wrong email server . . . .

Here we go again. The fake news claim that Russia wanted Trump to win the election. Bill you're losing it... if I'm wrong produce the evidence
Once again your reading comprehension fails you. Trump Jr did go to that meeting because he was promised dirt on Hillary Clinton as part of the Russian effort to help Trump win the election.

Trump Jr himself provided that evidence.

Yep, he went to the meeting

Not a thing illegal about it.

Bad PR optics in todays political world? Sure.

Other than that it is a big nothingburger.

Quote

because Russia wanted to help Trump to win the election

But this is the big lie line of the post.
It was to that line I was responding to.

This is the lie, bs horseshit narrative you, Bill and the left need to convince themselves to believe because you can't accept the FACT that Trump was a better candidate than Hillary and he could beat her. And he did! And it had noting to do with Russia! PERIOD!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

jakee

******See? No big deal. Junior just lied about meeting with a Russian spy and a Russian money launderer who promised to get him very sensitive dirt on Hillary Clinton, because Russia wanted to help Trump to win the election. It's a big nothingburger.

Now, if Junior had used the wrong email server . . . .

Here we go again. The fake news claim that Russia wanted Trump to win the election. Bill you're losing it... if I'm wrong produce the evidence
Once again your reading comprehension fails you. Trump Jr did go to that meeting because he was promised dirt on Hillary Clinton as part of the Russian effort to help Trump win the election.

Trump Jr himself provided that evidence.
BTW
YOU are the one with reading comp skill issues.
Look at my post as I was very specific to what I was responding to.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,632]

JerryBaumchen

Hi John,

Quote

Looks like the rats are turning on each other.

Or the big rat is feeding the smaller rats into the cannon fire.

Trump would through his own children under the bus to save himself. I would have mentioned something about throwing his wife under the bus; however, we already know what value he places on his wife(s).

Remember the early days of Watergate: What does he know and when did he know it.

Hmmmmm,

Jerry Baumchen

Much as I dislike Sessions, few people have been more devoted to Trump. And now, like so many others he’s gotten burned for it. He gave up a safe Senate seat for this.

Then Trump complained at length in the interview that Sessions recused himself because of conflicts of interest, but then in the very next breath he accused Mueller of being unable to run an impartial investigation because he has conflicts of interest.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,632]

rushmc

*********See? No big deal. Junior just lied about meeting with a Russian spy and a Russian money launderer who promised to get him very sensitive dirt on Hillary Clinton, because Russia wanted to help Trump to win the election. It's a big nothingburger.

Now, if Junior had used the wrong email server . . . .

Here we go again. The fake news claim that Russia wanted Trump to win the election. Bill you're losing it... if I'm wrong produce the evidence
Once again your reading comprehension fails you. Trump Jr did go to that meeting because he was promised dirt on Hillary Clinton as part of the Russian effort to help Trump win the election.

Trump Jr himself provided that evidence.
BTW
YOU are the one with reading comp skill issues.
Look at my post as I was very specific to what I was responding to.

Not that you ever had much, but you have destroyed whatever credibility you had with your mindless defense of the Liar in Chief.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,257]

rushmc

Yep, he went to the meeting

Not a thing illegal about it.

Bad PR optics in todays political world? Sure.

Other than that it is a big nothingburger.

Anything illegal about Bill Clinton talking to an AG? Did you think that was a big nothing burger?

Quote

***because Russia wanted to help Trump to win the election

But this is the big lie line of the post.
It was to that line I was responding to.
No Rush, you only think it's a lie because you can't read. Trump Jr was told that a Russian government lawyer would give him dirt on Clinton because Russia wanted to help Trump win the election.

This is a solid, black and white fact.

Quote

Trump was a better candidate than Hillary and he could beat her. And he did! And it had noting to do with Russia! PERIOD!!!

Then why did he try and get the Russians to help him?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,402]

>The fake news claim that Russia wanted Trump to win the election. Bill you're
>losing it... if I'm wrong produce the evidence

From the email released by Trump Junior:

================
The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.
================

You really have to keep up.

[SkyDekker 1,128]

Quote

But this is the big lie line of the post.
It was to that line I was responding to.

It is in the fucking email provided by Jr. You really need to learn to read and comprehend more than 5 words in a row.

Direct quote from the email arranging the meeting:

Quote

but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump

Yup, all a big lie.