More mass shootings

[airdvr 200]

jakee

***I like the idea of rooms that are "safe zones"...bulletproof and can be locked. Seems retro-fitting a classroom or 2 might be effective.

Yes, that is a truly outstanding idea for schools that can't even afford books

And once again I am told why it can't happen. Are there any ideas short of tightening up the gun laws you would be in favor of...because changing the 2nd Amendment ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

Are there any ideas short of tightening up the gun laws you would be in favor of...because changing the 2nd Amendment ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Tightening up gun laws does not imply "changing 2nd Amendment". Tightening up gun laws is where reasonable steps to reduce mass shootings will start.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jakee 1,280]

airdvr

Are there any ideas short of tightening up the gun laws you would be in favor of...because changing the 2nd Amendment ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Are there any ideas you would be in favor of that don't involve a gigantic magic money pit?

Your schools can't afford teachers but you want to hire thousands upon thousands of vets as security guards. Your schools can't afford classroom supplies but you want to spend enormous sums making the classrooms bulletproof. As shocking as your school shooting epidemic is, the cumulative damage it does to the nation is much lower than what is done by underfunded school districts failing their students, but try and increase public spending on education and people like Ron will call you a communist.

Quite frankly, if the money you propose using actually exists, then why the fuck isn't it already being used to allow poor school districts to do what they're supposed to be doing - teaching children.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JerryBaumchen 1,083]

Hi airdvr,

Quote

Are there any ideas

Here's one. You can own any gun/firearm that you want. However, it can only hold one bullet and a time. To shoot it a 2nd or 3rd time, you must open the chamber, take out the magazine, etc.

Only law enforcement & the military would be exempt, and only for their weapons when on duty.

I believe that this would completely comply with the 2nd amendment & your right to own a firearm(s).

Jerry Baumchen

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

Ron,

I have deep respect for what you do regardless of your motivation. Please know that.

To your point that few seek intervention on their own initiative, the question is why? A strong component must be money.

The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?

I think Rifleman asked a damn fine question and for all we know there is a relationship between national health care and social violence.

If there is, and it is demonstrable, would you as a professional counselor then be in favor of a national health care system in America?

My response is my opinion based on my experience and pragmatic observations.

The main reason, not the only one, that people tend to avoid seeking professional counseling is ego. They refuse to see and/or accept their mental flaws. Those that can afford therapy, note the difference from counseling, tend to seek psychiatric help. Their egos stand a better chance of being reinforced and they are given Rx medication to feel better about themselves and their lives.

I have been exposed to two paths of national healthcare. My primary exposure was my field of emplyment and the other the VA system.

In my field we operated primarily on two national and state level health care systems. That is, at first clients were provided Medicare because they had Social Security Disability and lastly Medicaid. The latter being federally funded state care.

Both systems had only marginal results. With Medicare funding the patient or client was given sixty days treatment per year. Alcoholics and addicts would simply take a break and get cleaned up.

Actual mental health patients would seek help generally because they quit taking their Rx meds and started experiencing symptoms again.

Once the Medicare treatment ended around 1990, the poor were left with Medicaid. That system is based solely on numbers. That is, what is best for the average number of patients seen and what is the cheapest answer to the symptomatic problem.

Both the civilian and the VA systems rely on psychotropic and mood altering medications. The side effects of these drugs are unpleasant and are frequently discontinued.

I don't believe Americans are prone to seek volunteer admission to mental health counseling, even it is free. We have a very strong American spirit and pride.

I hope I addressed your question. I began writing before church and now expecting company. Let me know if I can do better.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JoeWeber 2,358]

RonD1120

***

Ron,

I have deep respect for what you do regardless of your motivation. Please know that.

To your point that few seek intervention on their own initiative, the question is why? A strong component must be money.

The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?

I think Rifleman asked a damn fine question and for all we know there is a relationship between national health care and social violence.

If there is, and it is demonstrable, would you as a professional counselor then be in favor of a national health care system in America?

My response is my opinion based on my experience and pragmatic observations.

The main reason, not the only one, that people tend to avoid seeking professional counseling is ego. They refuse to see and/or accept their mental flaws. Those that can afford therapy, note the difference from counseling, tend to seek psychiatric help. Their egos stand a better chance of being reinforced and they are given Rx medication to feel better about themselves and their lives.

I have been exposed to two paths of national healthcare. My primary exposure was my field of emplyment and the other the VA system.

In my field we operated primarily on two national and state level health care systems. That is, at first clients were provided Medicare because they had Social Security Disability and lastly Medicaid. The latter being federally funded state care.

Both systems had only marginal results. With Medicare funding the patient or client was given sixty days treatment per year. Alcoholics and addicts would simply take a break and get cleaned up.

Actual mental health patients would seek help generally because they quit taking their Rx meds and started experiencing symptoms again.

Once the Medicare treatment ended around 1990, the poor were left with Medicaid. That system is based solely on numbers. That is, what is best for the average number of patients seen and what is the cheapest answer to the symptomatic problem.

Both the civilian and the VA systems rely on psychotropic and mood altering medications. The side effects of these drugs are unpleasant and are frequently discontinued.

I don't believe Americans are prone to seek volunteer admission to mental health counseling, even it is free. We have a very strong American spirit and pride.

I hope I addressed your question. I began writing before church and now expecting company. Let me know if I can do better.

Yes, you can do better. The question was:

"The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?"

Not adults, not ego's, not a comparison to some flakey, half assed US based system like SSD which is to a for realsie national health care system as a fart is to a turd.

I'm limiting it to rifleman's outstanding question. Is there a relationship between national health care and social violence?

The reason I am thinking that if money wasn't an issue for a parent, on advice, to seek mental health care for their kid is owing to a question my Dad asked me decades ago. "Boy", he asked. "You know what all old assholes have in common?" "Nope", say's I. Say's he: "They were all young assholes. Keep it in mind."

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

"The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?"

I think many American fathers tend to view mental health issues as a weakness. When their own kids are concerned, it's better to ignore mental health issues than to acknowledge the issue and the (illogical) implication that their offspring might not be sufficiently strong to make it in society. More than a few go so far as to believe psychology, as a field, is complete nonsense.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[wmw999 2,179]

Quote

I think many American fathers tend to view mental health issues as a weakness. When their own kids are concerned, it's better to ignore mental health issues than to acknowledge the issue and the (illogical) implication that their offspring might not be sufficiently strong to make it in society. More than a few go so far as to believe psychology, as a field, is complete nonsense.

I've seen this in members of my extended family. And I'll bet they're completely unrelated to members of your extended family.

I've used talk therapy as a tool to get unstuck several times. Not always perfect, but it helps to bounce ideas off someone else, and at its core, that's what talk therapy is. It's not weak to acknowledge that one wasn't born with all the answers.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,155]

airdvr

******I like the idea of rooms that are "safe zones"...bulletproof and can be locked. Seems retro-fitting a classroom or 2 might be effective.

Yes, that is a truly outstanding idea for schools that can't even afford books

And once again I am told why it can't happen. Are there any ideas short of tightening up the gun laws you would be in favor of...because changing the 2nd Amendment ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Spend more on social services and education for children.
Stop seeing violence as strength.
Stop seeing compromise as a weakness.
Stop seeing mental health problems as a weakness.
Give kids hope, hope for a better future.
From now on, only smart guns are allowed to be sold. Ammunition for non-smart guns is taxed at 500,000%

None of it will have any immediate impact. But long term it will work. Though nothing will work as well as taking away the easy availability of guns.

[Bob_Church 7]

"Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries)

Eva Charlotte MertenEmail author, Jan Christopher Cwik, Jürgen Margraf and Silvia Schneider
Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Mental Health201711:5
https://doi.org/10.1186/s13034-016-0140-5© The Author(s) 2017
Received: 12 July 2016Accepted: 11 December 2016"


intentional mental health diagnosis in children

"Influence of factors concerning the health systems

Literature also suggests intentional overdiagnosis due to health policy constraints.

As in many health care systems a diagnosis is required in order to access and reimburse treatment, intentional wrong coding in diagnosing mental disorders does occur in child and adolescent mental health services and can partly account for the overdiagnosis found in studies reevaluating earlier diagnoses. Clinicians might intend to ensure help for children with unclear or borderline symptoms or want to proceed with an evaluation without denying treatment when it is too early to render a diagnosis."

[jcd11235 0]

Bob_Church

"Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries)"

That study doesn't support your claim that people are being diagnosed with autism and PTSD in order to receive treatment for other conditions/disorders.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bob_Church 7]

jcd11235

***"Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries)"

That study doesn't support your claim that people are being diagnosed with autism and PTSD in order to receive treatment for other conditions/disorders.

"You have a child with parents in the middle of divorce or other things are going on and they just need someone to talk to. Unfortunately that's not covered by insurance so they end up labeled autistic or ptsd or something just so they can get the help."

[Bob_Church 7]

https://www.cabinetreport.com/special-education/study-finds-intentional-misdiagnosis-of-autism

"Almost another quarter reported that their child never actually had the condition but received the diagnosis anyway in order to quality for more services. And 21 percent said treatment or maturity seemed to resolve the condition."

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2418004.htm

"In Queensland today, there are fresh accusations that doctors are misdiagnosing children so they qualify for help in the classroom. But with a new Federal Government support package being rolled out, there's fresh hope of a more uniform approach.
"
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-real-reasons-autism-rates-are-up-in-the-u-s/

"Then, in 1991, the U.S. Department of Education ruled that a diagnosis of autism qualifies a child for special education services. Before this time, many children with autism may instead have been listed as having intellectual disability. The change may have encouraged families to get a diagnosis of autism for their child. The number of children who have both a diagnosis of autism and intellectual disability has also risen steadily over the years."

[jcd11235 0]

Bob_Church

******"Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries)"

That study doesn't support your claim that people are being diagnosed with autism and PTSD in order to receive treatment for other conditions/disorders.

"You have a child with parents in the middle of divorce or other things are going on and they just need someone to talk to. Unfortunately that's not covered by insurance so they end up labeled autistic or ptsd or something just so they can get the help."

That quote is not from the study you referenced.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bob_Church 7]

jcd11235

*********"Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries)"

That study doesn't support your claim that people are being diagnosed with autism and PTSD in order to receive treatment for other conditions/disorders.

"You have a child with parents in the middle of divorce or other things are going on and they just need someone to talk to. Unfortunately that's not covered by insurance so they end up labeled autistic or ptsd or something just so they can get the help."

That quote is not from the study you referenced.

No, it's not.

[jcd11235 0]

Bob_Church

https://www.cabinetreport.com/special-education/study-finds-intentional-misdiagnosis-of-autism

As a rule, you should take studies that rely on questionnaires only as indicators of whether additional research might be warranted, not as conclusive research.

Also, note that their numbers exceed 100 percent, implying that multiple responses were allowed. Thus, we can assume that many of the "[a]lmost another quarter" of respondents overlapped with the three-fourths of the parents who pointed out that new information was the reason for the misdiagnosis. In light of that, there's not much in the way of supporting evidence that the initial misdiagnoses were typically intentional.

Bob_Church

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-real-reasons-autism-rates-are-up-in-the-u-s/

"Then, in 1991, the U.S. Department of Education ruled that a diagnosis of autism qualifies a child for special education services. Before this time, many children with autism may instead have been listed as having intellectual disability. The change may have encouraged families to get a diagnosis of autism for their child. The number of children who have both a diagnosis of autism and intellectual disability has also risen steadily over the years."

In other words, autistic children who previously would have been misdiagnosed or gone undiagnosed (i.e., issue ignored) are now being properly diagnosed with autism.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

Bob_Church

************"Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries)"

That study doesn't support your claim that people are being diagnosed with autism and PTSD in order to receive treatment for other conditions/disorders.

"You have a child with parents in the middle of divorce or other things are going on and they just need someone to talk to. Unfortunately that's not covered by insurance so they end up labeled autistic or ptsd or something just so they can get the help."

That quote is not from the study you referenced.

No, it's not.

FYI: It's considered better form to match the citation and quoted passage.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bob_Church 7]

jcd11235

***************"Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries)"

That study doesn't support your claim that people are being diagnosed with autism and PTSD in order to receive treatment for other conditions/disorders.

"You have a child with parents in the middle of divorce or other things are going on and they just need someone to talk to. Unfortunately that's not covered by insurance so they end up labeled autistic or ptsd or something just so they can get the help."

That quote is not from the study you referenced.

No, it's not.

FYI: It's considered better form to match the citation and quoted passage.

I know, but that's only a quote in that it's my original statement, the one you disagreed with so vehemently but now don't even recognize. The way things were going it seemed like I needed to say it again. But it didn't help.

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

******

Ron,

I have deep respect for what you do regardless of your motivation. Please know that.

To your point that few seek intervention on their own initiative, the question is why? A strong component must be money.

The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?

I think Rifleman asked a damn fine question and for all we know there is a relationship between national health care and social violence.

If there is, and it is demonstrable, would you as a professional counselor then be in favor of a national health care system in America?

My response is my opinion based on my experience and pragmatic observations.

The main reason, not the only one, that people tend to avoid seeking professional counseling is ego. They refuse to see and/or accept their mental flaws. Those that can afford therapy, note the difference from counseling, tend to seek psychiatric help. Their egos stand a better chance of being reinforced and they are given Rx medication to feel better about themselves and their lives.

I have been exposed to two paths of national healthcare. My primary exposure was my field of emplyment and the other the VA system.

In my field we operated primarily on two national and state level health care systems. That is, at first clients were provided Medicare because they had Social Security Disability and lastly Medicaid. The latter being federally funded state care.

Both systems had only marginal results. With Medicare funding the patient or client was given sixty days treatment per year. Alcoholics and addicts would simply take a break and get cleaned up.

Actual mental health patients would seek help generally because they quit taking their Rx meds and started experiencing symptoms again.

Once the Medicare treatment ended around 1990, the poor were left with Medicaid. That system is based solely on numbers. That is, what is best for the average number of patients seen and what is the cheapest answer to the symptomatic problem.

Both the civilian and the VA systems rely on psychotropic and mood altering medications. The side effects of these drugs are unpleasant and are frequently discontinued.

I don't believe Americans are prone to seek volunteer admission to mental health counseling, even it is free. We have a very strong American spirit and pride.

I hope I addressed your question. I began writing before church and now expecting company. Let me know if I can do better.

Yes, you can do better. The question was:

"The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?"

Not adults, not ego's, not a comparison to some flakey, half assed US based system like SSD which is to a for realsie national health care system as a fart is to a turd.

I'm limiting it to rifleman's outstanding question. Is there a relationship between national health care and social violence?

The reason I am thinking that if money wasn't an issue for a parent, on advice, to seek mental health care for their kid is owing to a question my Dad asked me decades ago. "Boy", he asked. "You know what all old assholes have in common?" "Nope", say's I. Say's he: "They were all young assholes. Keep it in mind."

I do not know about the UK.

The only thing I believe is that when a child is forced to go to counseling they are more likely than not to be rebellious. Thus they need to be medicated and have their spirit broken.

The root of their problem is in their home life. If that cannot be changed then medicate the kid so that he will cope.

I worked with adults. Counseling in that area is more successful when the client has to pay for the time. In other words, if you don't invest something, you don't expect much in return.

Regarding your asshole comment, that is a personality disorder, an Axis II diagnosis. As such they are not treatable.

Individuals have to have a desire and motivation to change their own character flaws. That is where the battle with the ego lies.

The old adage, how many counselors does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[SkyDekker 1,155]

Quote

The root of their problem is in their home life

Mental health can very easily be independent from factors such as parenting or demographics.

[gowlerk 1,956]

SkyDekker

Quote

The root of their problem is in their home life

Mental health can very easily be independent from factors such as parenting or demographics.

I don't believe Ron has actually raised children. That would explain his willingness to blame parenting.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JoeWeber 2,358]

RonD1120

*********

Ron,

I have deep respect for what you do regardless of your motivation. Please know that.

To your point that few seek intervention on their own initiative, the question is why? A strong component must be money.

The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?

I think Rifleman asked a damn fine question and for all we know there is a relationship between national health care and social violence.

If there is, and it is demonstrable, would you as a professional counselor then be in favor of a national health care system in America?

My response is my opinion based on my experience and pragmatic observations.

The main reason, not the only one, that people tend to avoid seeking professional counseling is ego. They refuse to see and/or accept their mental flaws. Those that can afford therapy, note the difference from counseling, tend to seek psychiatric help. Their egos stand a better chance of being reinforced and they are given Rx medication to feel better about themselves and their lives.

I have been exposed to two paths of national healthcare. My primary exposure was my field of emplyment and the other the VA system.

In my field we operated primarily on two national and state level health care systems. That is, at first clients were provided Medicare because they had Social Security Disability and lastly Medicaid. The latter being federally funded state care.

Both systems had only marginal results. With Medicare funding the patient or client was given sixty days treatment per year. Alcoholics and addicts would simply take a break and get cleaned up.

Actual mental health patients would seek help generally because they quit taking their Rx meds and started experiencing symptoms again.

Once the Medicare treatment ended around 1990, the poor were left with Medicaid. That system is based solely on numbers. That is, what is best for the average number of patients seen and what is the cheapest answer to the symptomatic problem.

Both the civilian and the VA systems rely on psychotropic and mood altering medications. The side effects of these drugs are unpleasant and are frequently discontinued.

I don't believe Americans are prone to seek volunteer admission to mental health counseling, even it is free. We have a very strong American spirit and pride.

I hope I addressed your question. I began writing before church and now expecting company. Let me know if I can do better.

Yes, you can do better. The question was:

"The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?"

Not adults, not ego's, not a comparison to some flakey, half assed US based system like SSD which is to a for realsie national health care system as a fart is to a turd.

I'm limiting it to rifleman's outstanding question. Is there a relationship between national health care and social violence?

The reason I am thinking that if money wasn't an issue for a parent, on advice, to seek mental health care for their kid is owing to a question my Dad asked me decades ago. "Boy", he asked. "You know what all old assholes have in common?" "Nope", say's I. Say's he: "They were all young assholes. Keep it in mind."

I do not know about the UK.

The only thing I believe is that when a child is forced to go to counseling they are more likely than not to be rebellious. Thus they need to be medicated and have their spirit broken.

The root of their problem is in their home life. If that cannot be changed then medicate the kid so that he will cope.

I worked with adults. Counseling in that area is more successful when the client has to pay for the time. In other words, if you don't invest something, you don't expect much in return.

Regarding your asshole comment, that is a personality disorder, an Axis II diagnosis. As such they are not treatable.

Individuals have to have a desire and motivation to change their own character flaws. That is where the battle with the ego lies.

The old adage, how many counselors does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.

Again,: "If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?"

And: "I'm limiting it to rifleman's outstanding question. Is there a relationship between national health care and social violence?"

Whatever your belief system requires you to believe there are other factors besides poor parenting that create troubled children.

[jcd11235 0]

RonD1120

The only thing I believe is that when a child is forced to go to counseling they are more likely than not to be rebellious. Thus they need to be medicated and have their spirit broken.

A medical professional may, in fact, prescribe medication, but it is not to "have their spirit broken." The very idea is absurd. They're receiving help, not being forced into child slavery.

Quote

The root of their problem is in their home life. If that cannot be changed then medicate the kid so that he will cope.

That's a pretty sweeping generalization, especially coming from someone who admittedly doesn't work with kids.

Quote

Counseling in that area is more successful when the client has to pay for the time. In other words, if you don't invest something, you don't expect much in return.

Many professionals who work with low-income patients would disagree. It is not the money invested, rather the effort made, that will ultimately help determine if sessions are helpful.

Quote

Individuals have to have a desire and motivation to change their own character flaws.

More frequently, it isn't character flaws that need to be addressed. It's mental health issues like depression. Would you also consider someone to have physical flaws because they catch a cold or come down with the flu one every year or two?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Phil1111 943]

JoeWeber

************

Ron,

I have deep respect for what you do regardless of your motivation. Please know that.

To your point that few seek intervention on their own initiative, the question is why? A strong component must be money.

The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?

I think Rifleman asked a damn fine question and for all we know there is a relationship between national health care and social violence.

If there is, and it is demonstrable, would you as a professional counselor then be in favor of a national health care system in America?

My response is my opinion based on my experience and pragmatic observations.

The main reason, not the only one, that people tend to avoid seeking professional counseling is ego. They refuse to see and/or accept their mental flaws. Those that can afford therapy, note the difference from counseling, tend to seek psychiatric help. Their egos stand a better chance of being reinforced and they are given Rx medication to feel better about themselves and their lives.

I have been exposed to two paths of national healthcare. My primary exposure was my field of emplyment and the other the VA system.

In my field we operated primarily on two national and state level health care systems. That is, at first clients were provided Medicare because they had Social Security Disability and lastly Medicaid. The latter being federally funded state care.

Both systems had only marginal results. With Medicare funding the patient or client was given sixty days treatment per year. Alcoholics and addicts would simply take a break and get cleaned up.

Actual mental health patients would seek help generally because they quit taking their Rx meds and started experiencing symptoms again.

Once the Medicare treatment ended around 1990, the poor were left with Medicaid. That system is based solely on numbers. That is, what is best for the average number of patients seen and what is the cheapest answer to the symptomatic problem.

Both the civilian and the VA systems rely on psychotropic and mood altering medications. The side effects of these drugs are unpleasant and are frequently discontinued.

I don't believe Americans are prone to seek volunteer admission to mental health counseling, even it is free. We have a very strong American spirit and pride.

I hope I addressed your question. I began writing before church and now expecting company. Let me know if I can do better.

Yes, you can do better. The question was:

"The question I posed was regarding the UK where they have a national health care system. If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?"

Not adults, not ego's, not a comparison to some flakey, half assed US based system like SSD which is to a for realsie national health care system as a fart is to a turd.

I'm limiting it to rifleman's outstanding question. Is there a relationship between national health care and social violence?

The reason I am thinking that if money wasn't an issue for a parent, on advice, to seek mental health care for their kid is owing to a question my Dad asked me decades ago. "Boy", he asked. "You know what all old assholes have in common?" "Nope", say's I. Say's he: "They were all young assholes. Keep it in mind."

I do not know about the UK.

The only thing I believe is that when a child is forced to go to counseling they are more likely than not to be rebellious. Thus they need to be medicated and have their spirit broken.

The root of their problem is in their home life. If that cannot be changed then medicate the kid so that he will cope.

I worked with adults. Counseling in that area is more successful when the client has to pay for the time. In other words, if you don't invest something, you don't expect much in return.

Regarding your asshole comment, that is a personality disorder, an Axis II diagnosis. As such they are not treatable.

Individuals have to have a desire and motivation to change their own character flaws. That is where the battle with the ego lies.

The old adage, how many counselors does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.

Again,: "If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?"

And: "I'm limiting it to rifleman's outstanding question. Is there a relationship between national health care and social violence?"

Whatever your belief system requires you to believe there are other factors besides poor parenting that create troubled children.

-DNA
-Drugs, chemicals prescribed and non-prescribed during pregnancy including alcohol, smoking
- Nutrition and environment
-social, cultural environment
-birth weight

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

Again,: "If a health care professional notices a troubled kid and suggests an appointment with a counselor, and there is no cost to a poor parent, are they likely to take the appointment?"

And: "I'm limiting it to rifleman's outstanding question. Is there a relationship between national health care and social violence?"

Whatever your belief system requires you to believe there are other factors besides poor parenting that create troubled children.

We already have Medicaid counseling/therapy available to poor parents. IMO, we do not need a national healthcare system.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.