More mass shootings

[rushmc 18]

JerryBaumchen

Hi airdvr,

Quote

Are there any ideas

Here's one. You can own any gun/firearm that you want. However, it can only hold one bullet and a time. To shoot it a 2nd or 3rd time, you must open the chamber, take out the magazine, etc.

Only law enforcement & the military would be exempt, and only for their weapons when on duty.

I believe that this would completely comply with the 2nd amendment & your right to own a firearm(s).

Jerry Baumchen

So, you don't believe a person has a right to protect themselves! Not that it's surprising but it's good to see you admitted it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,400]

rushmc

So, you don't believe a person has a right to protect themselves! Not that it's surprising but it's good to see you admitted it.

So you want more dead kids? Wow, didn't expect you to come right out and say it.

(just as accurate)

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi rush,

Normally, I do not waste my time responding to you. But, here goes:

Quote

this would completely comply with the 2nd amendment

Scares you doesn't it?

Jerry Baumchen

[RonD1120 58]

My side of the 2nd Amendment folks believe we have a need and a right to protect ourselves with the best weapons available.

The opposing side does not believe our position is valid.

I wonder why Americans are so divided?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,400]

>I wonder why Americans are so divided?

Because political parties derive power from division.

[DJL 232]

airdvr

If one of the gun registration qualifiers is a mental health background check even fewer will seek help.

I'm 100% with you on this. There is so little understanding in the general population as to what mental health is about. For example, how many have heard anyone but politicians talking about solving gun crimes via mental health evaluations?

Quote

I like the idea of rooms that are "safe zones"...bulletproof and can be locked. Seems retro-fitting a classroom or 2 might be effective.

There are schools being built with better entrance and movement control but that doesn't help the other 9 out of 10 and remember that the money needs to come from the locality so any additional work needs to get federal dollars. But not to kick the concept out, remember that the assailant are also students much of the time and know exactly what the school does in a lockdown situation. Right now schools are operating by the big sky concept because there's very little that at school can do if the assailant knows who the security staff is, where they'll be, and where the students will be. These things are over in a 5-10 minutes span and one classroom holds around 25 students.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[airdvr 197]

DJL

***If one of the gun registration qualifiers is a mental health background check even fewer will seek help.

I'm 100% with you on this. There is so little understanding in the general population as to what mental health is about. For example, how many have heard anyone but politicians talking about solving gun crimes via mental health evaluations?

Quote

I like the idea of rooms that are "safe zones"...bulletproof and can be locked. Seems retro-fitting a classroom or 2 might be effective.

There are schools being built with better entrance and movement control but that doesn't help the other 9 out of 10 and remember that the money needs to come from the locality so any additional work needs to get federal dollars. But not to kick the concept out, remember that the assailant are also students much of the time and know exactly what the school does in a lockdown situation. Right now schools are operating by the big sky concept because there's very little that at school can do if the assailant knows who the security staff is, where they'll be, and where the students will be. These things are over in a 5-10 minutes span and one classroom holds around 25 students.

There is no perfect solution. I think you could probably stuff 100 kids into a classroom designed to seat 30.

I'm seeing bullet resistant doors for $1500 online. Not sure what else needs to be done for installation or what the costs would be but i'm certain at this point that there needs to be a space where the shooter can't access.

Not interested in hearing about how it can't be afforded. It can be part of some federal budget somewhere.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Phil1111 911]

airdvr

******If one of the gun registration qualifiers is a mental health background check even fewer will seek help.

I'm 100% with you on this. There is so little understanding in the general population as to what mental health is about. For example, how many have heard anyone but politicians talking about solving gun crimes via mental health evaluations?

Quote

I like the idea of rooms that are "safe zones"...bulletproof and can be locked. Seems retro-fitting a classroom or 2 might be effective.

There are schools being built with better entrance and movement control but that doesn't help the other 9 out of 10 and remember that the money needs to come from the locality so any additional work needs to get federal dollars. But not to kick the concept out, remember that the assailant are also students much of the time and know exactly what the school does in a lockdown situation. Right now schools are operating by the big sky concept because there's very little that at school can do if the assailant knows who the security staff is, where they'll be, and where the students will be. These things are over in a 5-10 minutes span and one classroom holds around 25 students.

There is no perfect solution. I think you could probably stuff 100 kids into a classroom designed to seat 30.

I'm seeing bullet resistant doors for $1500 online. Not sure what else needs to be done for installation or what the costs would be but i'm certain at this point that there needs to be a space where the shooter can't access.

Not interested in hearing about how it can't be afforded. It can be part of some federal budget somewhere.

What about the time just before class starts, when class lets out, recess, etc.

[billvon 2,400]

>Not interested in hearing about how it can't be afforded.

In that case, TSA checkpoint at the entrances to every school. That would be far more effective than trying to keep an armed shooter out of a classroom. (And would employ a lot of people.)

[DJL 232]

RonD1120

My side of the 2nd Amendment folks believe we have a need and a right to protect ourselves with the best weapons available.

The opposing side does not believe our position is valid.

I wonder why Americans are so divided?

Because we're talking about a sentence from a 200 year old document that was intended to ensure that we could would have an armed militia to mitigate against a standing army or that standing army becoming a tool of tyranny. Zero to do about defending your church against travelling Christians.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[airdvr 197]

Again, nothing's perfect. There needs to be a place they can access.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[DJL 232]

Quote

There is no perfect solution. I think you could probably stuff 100 kids into a classroom designed to seat 30.

I'm seeing bullet resistant doors for $1500 online. Not sure what else needs to be done for installation or what the costs would be but i'm certain at this point that there needs to be a space where the shooter can't access.

Not interested in hearing about how it can't be afforded. It can be part of some federal budget somewhere.

You could stuff the other sets of 30 into another room but the first 30 are dead. Just about any solution needs to address 100% of the schools because you can't pick or choose and there's still very little you can do about saving the first group of people that the shooter encounters as long as the assailant is able to walk into the school unchecked.

I'm not even saying it can't be afforded but you have to have a realistic solution. I work on school projects as a commercial electrical contractor and some schools would need to be entirely demolished because they have open campuses or rely on trailer classrooms. I've been to some of these during lock-down drills and I can tell you that what they're doing is no better than the Duck and Cover BS from the 50's. In order to turn these into hardened targets you're at $3m just from me to run wire and hang lights. Throw another $20m per SMALL school on there for the rest of the work.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DJL 232]

billvon

>Not interested in hearing about how it can't be afforded.

In that case, TSA checkpoint at the entrances to every school. That would be far more effective than trying to keep an armed shooter out of a classroom. (And would employ a lot of people.)

And that's basically what we're getting to. Once you've walked out you don't get back in without going through security. But of course now you have hundreds and possibly thousands of kids standing in a large group outside of the building with nowhere to go once the bullets start flying.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,400]

DJL

And that's basically what we're getting to. Once you've walked out you don't get back in without going through security. But of course now you have hundreds and possibly thousands of kids standing in a large group outside of the building with nowhere to go once the bullets start flying.

Right, but then it's a "school area shooting" and not a "school shooting" so mission accomplished I guess.

I picture a future school with armed guards at every doors and backscatter scanners to detect weapons. Students are searched after waiting 30 minutes to get into the school, where they sit in heavily-reinforced empty classrooms and are shown videos (since the school can no longer afford teachers.)

[DJL 232]

billvon

***And that's basically what we're getting to. Once you've walked out you don't get back in without going through security. But of course now you have hundreds and possibly thousands of kids standing in a large group outside of the building with nowhere to go once the bullets start flying.

Right, but then it's a "school area shooting" and not a "school shooting" so mission accomplished I guess.

I picture a future school with armed guards at every doors and backscatter scanners to detect weapons. Students are searched after waiting 30 minutes to get into the school, where they sit in heavily-reinforced empty classrooms and are shown videos (since the school can no longer afford teachers.)

You entirely ignore remotely operated drone teachers to cut costs. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrXfh4hENKs

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[PhreeZone 15]

Here is the issue with the bulletproof doors - students need to be able to open them when they are not in lockdown mode. A level 2 wooden door that will stop a Jacketed 9mm has a weight of 275-300 pounds. A high school student might be able to able to open that but elementary school and some older teachers will not be able to open something that heavy dozens of times a day. If you want to stop 5.56 /7.62 ammo you need to step up to a level 7 or 8 door - those are steel only and are starting at a weight of 300-350 pounds per door. Door Jams need improved to support that type of weight not to mention the need to upgrade all the rest of the building materials to be bulletproof also.

Most of the shootings happen in open areas such as hallways, cafeterias, outside the classroom and other spaces where doors like this will have no impact.

If we look at the Parkland shooting it happened when lots of students were not in classrooms and it had them running in a panic to get away from the shooter. The shooter never had to try to enter a classroom directly since all the students were just there in hallways and stairwells to shoot at. The existing doors worked just fine to deter the shooter from trying to get into a room after the door was shut. As an aside it looks like some teachers might be getting disciplined since they broke protocol and opened their doors to get more students into their classroom after the shooting started.

I'd also recommend reading the piece in the Washington Post this weekend to get some insight into the planning most of these shooters do: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/inside-a-teen-school-shooters-mind-a-plot-to-kill-50-or-60-if-i-get-lucky-maybe-150/2018/03/03/68cc673c-1b27-11e8-ae5a-16e60e4605f3_story.html Student basically was going to kick / shoot a window in from outside the school, get into a classroom and start shooting 5-7 year olds. Then he was going to take the teachers keys and start roaming the hallways and using the keys to unlock everything he could and shoot his way until he ran out of bullets or classrooms to shoot. When you are facing plans like that - thats a whole new level of preparedness needed to stay safe. And to mix this up he was not going to go after the typical middle or high school to target his peers but instead an elementary school where they typically do not have resource officers or other items that are found in upper grade buildings for rapid response.

Students are already taught to barricade doors and to turn off lights and cover windows if anything happens. Some schools teach to actively fight back by throwing books, book bags and classroom materials at the shooter to get them to miss and allow more students to escape.

Question is - do you want to turn schools into prisons where students are dealt with like inmates where they have bulletproof glass and doors around them, that they have to move only in supervised groups and have armed guards at all the entrances and exits?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[airdvr 197]

After we had our asses handed to us on December 7th Roosevelt knew he had to do something to raise the morale. Doolittle's raid on Tokyo was militarily insignificant but it did wonders for our psyche.

I've come to the conclusion that you probably won't solve the school problem at the door, or even in the classroom. The actual number of schools that have had a shooter is minuscule when compared to the number of schools in general.

Parents of school aged kids are freaking out. For once we should do something that isn't mired in gun control, even if it is symbolic and doesn't completely solve the problem.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi airdvr,

Quote

It can be part of some federal budget somewhere.

I suggest an annual federal licensing fee of $5,000.00 per firearm that anyone owns.

Fiscal problem solved.

Jerry Baumchen

[nolhtairt 0]

DJL

***If one of the gun registration qualifiers is a mental health background check even fewer will seek help.

I'm 100% with you on this. There is so little understanding in the general population as to what mental health is about. For example, how many have heard anyone but politicians talking about solving gun crimes via mental health evaluations?


Here's an idea... Lots of companies require a review of your social media history before they consider hiring you. You turn over your phone and home computer, give them your account passwords or however it's done. Implement that requirement in a background check for gun purchases. As for mental health evaluations being required for a gun purchase, some people can evade detection by bullshitting their way through, but you can't whitewash your social media history.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

airdvr

After we had our asses handed to us on December 7th Roosevelt knew he had to do something to raise the morale. Doolittle's raid on Tokyo was militarily insignificant but it did wonders for our psyche.

I've come to the conclusion that you probably won't solve the school problem at the door, or even in the classroom. The actual number of schools that have had a shooter is minuscule when compared to the number of schools in general.

Parents of school aged kids are freaking out. For once we should do something that isn't mired in gun control, even if it is symbolic and doesn't completely solve the problem.

Grand idea! Let's attack the second amendment with logic bombs. Might not help but sometimes you just gotta do something even if it's wrong.

[DJL 232]

nolhtairt

******If one of the gun registration qualifiers is a mental health background check even fewer will seek help.

I'm 100% with you on this. There is so little understanding in the general population as to what mental health is about. For example, how many have heard anyone but politicians talking about solving gun crimes via mental health evaluations?


Here's an idea... Lots of companies require a review of your social media history before they consider hiring you. You turn over your phone and home computer, give them your account passwords or however it's done. Implement that requirement in a background check for gun purchases. As for mental health evaluations being required for a gun purchase, some people can evade detection by bullshitting their way through, but you can't whitewash your social media history.

So you think that someone can fake a psych eval but they can't create a fake Facebook profile for posting whatever it is that would indicate them to be unstable? None of that is how any of that works.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[jakee 1,254]

airdvr

I'm seeing bullet resistant doors for $1500 online. Not sure what else needs to be done for installation or what the costs would be but i'm certain at this point that there needs to be a space where the shooter can't access.

Unless they're already inside it, obviously. Or if they start shooting just outside it, so those inside have to make the choice of locking the door to the victims trapped just feet away from safety. Gonna love those headlines! Either way, as has been pointed out several times now, in the meantime the shooter just walks around the rest of the building killing the same number of people he would have done anyway.

Quote

Not interested in hearing about how it can't be afforded. It can be part of some federal budget somewhere.

Well, whether or not you want to waste that funding on something you admit is merely symbolic, I think you should bring substantial funding increases to your poor school districts so that all disadvantaged rural and inner city kids can enjoy the same educational opportunities as those from the wealthiest areas.

Cost doesn't matter, the Feds can find the money. You agree?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

>I wonder why Americans are so divided?

Because political parties derive power from division.

Socialism used to be a political party on its own and they got a few votes here and there. They were the beginnings of communism and were generally considered the enemy.

Now socialism is part of the Democrat Party, they call themselves Progressive Liberals. I still consider them the enemy.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Bob_Church 7]

This thing about psych evals. Does anyone have any estimates on amount of time, that sort of thing? There are probably 200 million gun owners in the US, or we could go low and say 100 million. Are we really going to find trained professionals who would sign off on people being safe to own a gun? Or let some gun owner know that he's going to recommend that the government take all of his guns away? And after how much time with them? Originally the suggestion was that anyone who had a history of mental health problems wouldn't be able to own a gun.That has problems but it could be done. But now I'm hearing from several sources the idea of evaluating each person who owns a gun. We could get on that right after we count all the grains of sand on the Florida coast.

[DJL 232]

Bob_Church

This thing about psych evals. Does anyone have any estimates on amount of time, that sort of thing? There are probably 200 million gun owners in the US, or we could go low and say 100 million. Are we really going to find trained professionals who would sign off on people being safe to own a gun? Or let some gun owner know that he's going to recommend that the government take all of his guns away? And after how much time with them? Originally the suggestion was that anyone who had a history of mental health problems wouldn't be able to own a gun.That has problems but it could be done. But now I'm hearing from several sources the idea of evaluating each person who owns a gun. We could get on that right after we count all the grains of sand on the Florida coast.

Could you imagine the court case against the shrink the first time someone kills a few people after he/she signed off on their eval. Nobody in the mental health community wants to do that and hold that liability. It's one thing to make a medical decision that someone should not own firearms, that's something that takes a long evaluation and probably proof of violent behavior. The opposite is not true. That would be like the saying of checking for crocodiles, you can only find that it is there, not that it isn't.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher