Courageous Americans confront illegal immigrants

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

All of the these arguments skirt the issue which is the movement to reduce the United States' position as a hegemon in favor of liberal internationalism.

"International liberalism" being the notion that other countries might possibly have their own interests, and do not exist solely to satisfy the US's demand for cheap materials and labor.

I realize the very idea that other countries might act in their own self interest is an abomination to some. Actually trying to work with other countries, rather than just bullying them and invading/staging a coup when they don't "choose" to bend to our will, is a sacrilege.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kelpdiver 2]

GeorgiaDon

Is it relevant that we (the US) have had a large role in creating the existing conditions in Central America? Perhaps some are familiar with the history behind the term "bananna republic". US corporations, with the backing of the US government and military, deliberately kept people in these countries poor and politically powerless, to provide cheap labor for those corporations.

US Corporations did not create banana republics (though they do take advantage of them, like everyone else). Was it not UN/WB type economists that recommended these nations move from self sustaining farming to single commodity crops to sell to the 1st world for money?

These nations already had a small ruling/owning class who were perfectly happy to keep it that way. (Just like much of the Arab world. Any movement to help the people has the latter waring with us.)

[masterrig 1]

kelpdiver

***
Is it relevant that we (the US) have had a large role in creating the existing conditions in Central America? Perhaps some are familiar with the history behind the term "bananna republic". US corporations, with the backing of the US government and military, deliberately kept people in these countries poor and politically powerless, to provide cheap labor for those corporations.

US Corporations did not create banana republics (though they do take advantage of them, like everyone else). Was it not UN/WB type economists that recommended these nations move from self sustaining farming to single commodity crops to sell to the 1st world for money?

These nations already had a small ruling/owning class who were perfectly happy to keep it that way. (Just like much of the Arab world. Any movement to help the people has the latter waring with us.)

Good example of sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. All the big countries want every little country to be like them. What is wrong with leaving them alone, if they are happy? The big countries can't handle someone else being happy?


Chuck

[quade 3]

kelpdiver

US Corporations did not create banana republics.

I'm fairly certain history is not in your favor on this. You may want to look into the shenanigans regarding Chiquita.

You can, at best, say, "US Corporations did not create ALL banana republics."






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DanG 1]

Quote

Good example of sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. All the big countries want every little country to be like them. What is wrong with leaving them alone, if they are happy? The big countries can't handle someone else being happy?

Aren't you the one who was arguing for the UN to go in and "fix" Central America? You can't have it both ways.

- Dan G

[Remster 24]

I say it's time the US brings democracy to Central America!

Remster

[DanG 1]

Quote

I say it's time the US brings democracy to Central America!

What could go wrong?

- Dan G

[masterrig 1]

quade

***US Corporations did not create banana republics.

I'm fairly certain history is not in your favor on this. You may want to look into the shenanigans regarding Chiquita.

You can, at best, say, "US Corporations did not create ALL banana republics."






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company

Ahem... I didn't write that quote.


Chuck

[normiss 622]

Given our gooberment's success with the illegal drug trade there, I thought we already had.

[quade 3]

masterrig

Ahem... I didn't write that quote.

Corrected.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[masterrig 1]

DanG

Quote

Good example of sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. All the big countries want every little country to be like them. What is wrong with leaving them alone, if they are happy? The big countries can't handle someone else being happy?

Aren't you the one who was arguing for the UN to go in and "fix" Central America? You can't have it both ways.

Yes, I am. To help restore 'law and order' then get out. I wasn't referring to anything else.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

quade

***Ahem... I didn't write that quote.

Corrected.




Chuck

[masterrig 1]

I think, the only way we'll end the drug trade is end the demand from the good ol' USof A. Like that's ever going to happen.


Chuck

[normiss 622]

Americans aren't the only ones on the planet that like to party.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

masterrig

I think, the only way we'll end the drug trade is end the demand from the good ol' USof A. Like that's ever going to happen.


Chuck

Well, we might look to history for a relevant example. Have Americans stopped consuming alcohol? Do we still have a lot of violent crime associated with producing, importing, or selling alcoholic beverages? I wonder why we no longer have gang wars over alcohol???

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Amazon 7]

DanG

Quote

I say it's time the US brings democracy to Central America!

What could go wrong?

Paraquat laced dope importation by CIA???

[jakee 1,257]

masterrig

***

Quote

Good example of sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. All the big countries want every little country to be like them. What is wrong with leaving them alone, if they are happy? The big countries can't handle someone else being happy?

Aren't you the one who was arguing for the UN to go in and "fix" Central America? You can't have it both ways.

Yes, I am. To help restore 'law and order' then get out. I wasn't referring to anything else.

Wow, you're all about the simple solutions this week! Restore law and order and leave. That sounds so easy it's amazing no-one's tried it

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[masterblaster72 0]

masterrig

I see what you're saying. I am just very much against the idea of 'let 'em all in'! If people want to come here legally, great. We let every illegal who wants to come here in, we're going to look just like the countries they are running from. Our sovereignty as a nation will go right down the toilet. I don't care what all the bleedin' hearts say. As far as I'm concerned, supporters of illegals, supports breaking our Immigration and Nationality laws.


Chuck

Nice idea, but watch any documentary on the Rwanda genocide of 1994 and you'll see that the UN is a completely ineffective farce of an organization capable of enforcing nothing when push comes to shove.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[billvon 2,421]

>Yes, I am. To help restore 'law and order' then get out. I wasn't referring to anything else.

Again, if you would accept the UN entering your town to bring it up to international standards of law and order, then great. If not, then it's not really supportable to ask that others put up with something you are unwilling to put up with.

[Rick 67]

Remster

I say it's time the US brings democracy to Central America!

we have enough canals already

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[rushmc 18]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/07/07/Leaked-Internal-DHS-Report-Admits-Lack-of-Deportation-Significant-Factor-in-Border-Crisis

Quote

Leaked Internal DHS Report Admits Lack of Deportation Significant Factor in Border Crisis

Go figure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[aphid 0]

rushmc

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/07/07/Leaked-Internal-DHS-Report-Admits-Lack-of-Deportation-Significant-Factor-in-Border-Crisis

Quote

Leaked Internal DHS Report Admits Lack of Deportation Significant Factor in Border Crisis

Go figure

"White House Says 'Most' Children At The Border Will Be Sent Home"
source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/07/white-house-border_n_5564452.html

[turtlespeed 212]

aphid

***http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/07/07/Leaked-Internal-DHS-Report-Admits-Lack-of-Deportation-Significant-Factor-in-Border-Crisis

Quote

Leaked Internal DHS Report Admits Lack of Deportation Significant Factor in Border Crisis

Go figure

"White House Says 'Most' Children At The Border Will Be Sent Home"
source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/07/white-house-border_n_5564452.html

What about the ones that land in planes?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 58]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

I wonder what would happen if we closed the borders and made agriculture or construction employment a requirement for welfare or food stamps?

Considering that the great majority of people on welfare are women with children (able-bodied men are not eligible), would your plan include requiring employers to provide day care and schools? Or would you require the children to pick cotton beside their mothers? Most food stamp recipients already have jobs. Here in Georgia most county employees, as well as a large segment of the workforce at Walmart, fast-food places, and such qualify for food stamps. Would you require them to quit those jobs so they could be available to pick cotton?

I have no problem with requiring able-bodied unemployed people to show they are actively looking for work, or are in an appropriate training program to upgrade their marketable skills, as a condition of receiving benefits.

How about we try this?
1. Fix the e-verify system.
2. Require all employers to verify the employability of anyone they hire.
3. Impose severe penalties for failing to verify the employability of job applicants before hiring them.

This would remove the incentive for undocumented migrants to come here. It would also force US employers to actually compete for US workers, instead of depending on a vulnerable immigrant work force. Of course, that would mean they would have to pay competitive wages, and provide a working environment that would be acceptable to US workers. Are you prepared for a dramatic escalation of food prices?

In 2011 Georgia enforced strict immigration rules. What happened?
"...[In 2011]... the state passed HB 87 - a tough immigration law modeled after Arizona's HB 1070. As a result, many farmers complained they had issues finding the farm labor they needed after HB 87 passed. It seemed that migrant workers didn’t even bother looking for jobs in the Peach State, and farmers were already having a difficult time filling positions with laborers on guest worker visas because of their cost and paperwork.

The farmers commissioned a study from the University of Georgia’s Center for Agribusiness and Economic Development to determine the extent of damage the shortage had done. The study examined seven staple Georgia crops, Vidalia onions included. The findings were shocking: 18 Vidalia-producing farms lost an estimated $16,312,345 and 835 jobs. In total, the seven crops studied lost almost $75 million and more than 5,200 jobs because of the labor shortage. " (link)

Did you get that? $75 million, and 5,200 jobs, lost in 1 year.

Last year the state decided to use probationers to fill in the gap. After a few days all had walked off the job.

Then they started to use inmates from prisons. What happened then? With almost free labor, the cost of Vidalia onions from the farms that used inmate labor fell to the point where farms that actually employed US workers could not compete. They could not sell their crop for enough to allow them to pay their US workers. More jobs lost, more farmers driven out of business.

Is this the America we all want? A return to slave labor, using prisoners at the cost of putting employers who want to employ people and pay a reasonable wage out of business?

Don

Thoughtful response, thanks. You are right and America has passed the tipping point.

BTW, I believe that single parents are eligible for welfare. At least I remember a workshop in FL where we were advised to inform single male parents to apply for WIC support.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

Iago

***

The problem we are facing today with our border is this...

http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/why-90-000-children-flooding-our-border-is-not-an-immigration-story-20140616 It isn't about cheap labor.


Chuck

OK, so according to the author this is a 'humanitarian crisis.'

Fine, let's handle it like one.

-Get the Navy Seebees and the Corp of Engineers to start building camps.

-Split them up by age group and sex. We can't have all those hormonal teenagers doinking each other. We also can't have the adults preying on the younger ones.

-National Guard provides security. All those guys owe two weeks a year anyways so let's put them to use. Bring them in on loan from other states.

-Everyone gets a medical checkup and a blood test. Anyone with a communicable disease or otherwise ill goes into quarantine.

-Everyone able-bodied and of working age gets a job in the camp. Working the cafeteria tents, cleaning showers, laundry, etc. If they have a skilled trade even better- they can help build the camps, do tailor work, run the school, etc. Everyone gets paid and it all goes into an account accessible at the camp to buy sundries, necessities, and other things to keep occupied.

-Everyone gets a camp ID card. Records of their performance, ability, and disciplinary problems are kept and factored into the decision to kick them out. If they cause trouble they go on the next boat.

There is no reason for ANY to be released into gen pop pending resolution of their case.

Your plan seems workable to me. Do you think there is any chance we would actually implement it? I don't, it sounds too much like the Japanese interment of WWII. Governmental bureaucracy is very reluctant to take an old plan and improve it. We tend to create and develop a new and hopelessly complicated new plan.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.