No Chase Rule

[grue 1]

Better than the pigs here. They didn't even come to the scene when my motorcycle was stolen, just gave me an incident report. I hope their children get orphaned, they're bloody useless.

cavete terrae.

[Bignugget 0]

The sad reality is your friend is just looking for the government to give him a hand-out.

Tell him to get off his lazy ass and find the car himself!

Stop relying on the government entitlement system to do everything for him.

This is what is wrong with America. Everyone expects helicopters to go search for their cars. If they just took some personal responsibility and did their own work, they could find their stolen cars.

Your buddy just doesn't want it bad enough.

[Tink1717 2]

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Tink1717 2]

Quote

I think the legislators need to pass a law that running from the police in a car (felony fleeing and eluding or whatever your jurisdiction calls it) is a mandatory 20 year prison sentence, no probation, no deals. Make it a highest class felony up there with aggravated rape and premeditated murder. Make it so the penalty for running is worse than whatever they're running for.

All well and good until you get to the part where criminals, by their nature, don't give a shit about the laws. You can make all the laws you want, but they
re still not gonna give a shit.


It's no different than all the airspace restrictions and TSA bullshit in the wake of 9/11, they're still not gonna respect a line on a map or a rule in a book.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[OHCHUTE 0]

So when you ride your bicycle to the scene of the crime to steal a pickup, at least be smart enough to put your bicycle in the back of the truck that you are stealing?

Driver should have locked his truck.

Driver should have laid in wait for perp to return to get his bike.

Driver should have had a firearm.


Why is any cop needed?

If kids are riding around on bicycles stealing workmans pickup trucks then I'd say, there needs to be more attention paid to keeping any eye on the truck.

[Bignugget 0]

OHCHUTE

So when you ride your bicycle to the scene of the crime to steal a pickup, at least be smart enough to put your bicycle in the back of the truck that you are stealing?

Driver should have locked his truck.

Driver should have laid in wait for perp to return to get his bike.

Driver should have had a firearm.


Why is any cop needed?

If kids are riding around on bicycles stealing workmans pickup trucks then I'd say, there needs to be more attention paid to keeping any eye on the truck.

Amen, dude is probably a liberal.

[champu 1]

Bignugget

The sad reality is your friend is just looking for the government to give him a hand-out.

Tell him to get off his lazy ass and find the car himself!

Stop relying on the government entitlement system to do everything for him.

This is what is wrong with America. Everyone expects helicopters to go search for their cars. If they just took some personal responsibility and did their own work, they could find their stolen cars.

Your buddy just doesn't want it bad enough.

Conflating all government roles/actions/responsibilites furthers no discussions whatsoever... and you'e not even being clever about it.

[masterrig 1]

I hear on the local news, all too often of people leaving the keys in their vehicles, un-locked in their driveway. during colder months, I have seen vehicles in front of a 7-11, un-locked and running during the colder months! These are newer vehicles that might as well have a sign on them 'TAKE ME!' It's nuts!


Chuck

[Kennedy 0]

Tink1717

Quote

I think the legislators need to pass a law that running from the police in a car (felony fleeing and eluding or whatever your jurisdiction calls it) is a mandatory 20 year prison sentence, no probation, no deals. Make it a highest class felony up there with aggravated rape and premeditated murder. Make it so the penalty for running is worse than whatever they're running for.

All well and good until you get to the part where criminals, by their nature, don't give a shit about the laws. You can make all the laws you want, but they're still not gonna give a shit.

It's no different than all the airspace restrictions and TSA bullshit in the wake of 9/11, they're still not gonna respect a line on a map or a rule in a book.

Nonsense. The system in place just begs criminals to flee from the blue lights. Simple cost benefit analysis. Option 1: pull over, take a felony larceny charge. Option 2: flee and elude, you either get away scot free, or face basically the same penalty as pulling over. So why stop?

Of course criminals are going to break the law, that's what they do. But don't think for a second that they don't consider the penalties, or lack thereof. Put real time behind a crime, and it alters their decision making. It may not stop them, but if they're willing to threaten the lives of everyone on the road, at least there'll be some consequences.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

The sad reality is your friend is just looking for the government to give him a hand-out.

Tell him to get off his lazy ass and find the car himself!

Stop relying on the government entitlement system to do everything for him.

This is what is wrong with America. Everyone expects helicopters to go search for their cars. If they just took some personal responsibility and did their own work, they could find their stolen cars.

Your buddy just doesn't want it bad enough.

Yes, let's make it mandatory for all drivers to buy a LoJack. The government could start a free LoJack program. Do you have any idea how much we could save?

[airdvr 198]

I guess what bothers me the most about this is a no pursuit rule automatically shifts blame for bad things that happen during a pursuit onto the LEO. If you are a bad guy fleeing you are ultimately responsible for anything bad that happens during that pursuit.

If you're not pursuing car theft where do you draw the line? Murderer? We've lost the ability to define right vs. wrong and who is responsible. Ya know, if we just stop chasing criminals I'll bet the crime rate would drop....Part of living in a free society is understanding that bad things can happen to you even when you're doing everything right. Seems odd that I would need to remind jumpers of that.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[shropshire 0]

Well the Cops already DON'T chase COPS for doing bad things (see the thug with a badge thread)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[davjohns 1]

It pretty much makes sense to me. You can get sued and have to pay if you pursue and it goes wrong. Try suing the department for not pursuing. Can't be done. Easy decision.

Keep in mind that there is no affirmative duty for government to protect you. The police are not required to get your vehicle back at all.

Now, the interesting quetion in my mind is this: were the cops driving the more expensive police pursuit cars decked out with heavy duty bumper, V8 engine, etc? Why are they still spending that tax money if they have a policy against using the equipment as intended? Seems to me you should have been filing a report over the phone or at most to a bicycle cop. Otherwise, I think your local government has the motto -"Doing less with more". Was that on the side of the car?



Sorry. I don't mean to make light of your frustration. It just seems to be the way the government is heading. Costs more. Does less. Blows smoke.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[RonD1120 58]

turtlespeed

***>Well at least the crook got away.
>AND he got away with all the tools this victim uses to make his living.
>That's a good thing, right?


No, they should chase him down no matter what. Schools in the area? Who cares! Dead kids are a good thing, right? You'd be fine with dead kids as long as your car was recovered more quickly.

You should take a moment and read the posts above before hitting the post button.

That is not at all my attitude.



You are expecting/insisting on WAY too much.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[OHCHUTE 0]

I presume the bike was stolen too. Now a truck. What is next, murder?

US society is way too lenient with perps who start their criminal careers in elementary school working their way up gathering a rap sheet filled with all types of offensives.

[Gravitymaster 0]

OHCHUTE

I presume the bike was stolen too. Now a truck. What is next, murder?

US society is way too lenient with perps who start their criminal careers in elementary school working their way up gathering a rap sheet filled with all types of offensives.

But yet Liberals claim we have too many people in prisons. Then in the same breath, they scream about how we need to enforce laws and "get the criminals off the street".

[SkyDekker 1,130]

Kennedy

***

Quote

I think the legislators need to pass a law that running from the police in a car (felony fleeing and eluding or whatever your jurisdiction calls it) is a mandatory 20 year prison sentence, no probation, no deals. Make it a highest class felony up there with aggravated rape and premeditated murder. Make it so the penalty for running is worse than whatever they're running for.

All well and good until you get to the part where criminals, by their nature, don't give a shit about the laws. You can make all the laws you want, but they're still not gonna give a shit.

It's no different than all the airspace restrictions and TSA bullshit in the wake of 9/11, they're still not gonna respect a line on a map or a rule in a book.

Nonsense. The system in place just begs criminals to flee from the blue lights. Simple cost benefit analysis. Option 1: pull over, take a felony larceny charge. Option 2: flee and elude, you either get away scot free, or face basically the same penalty as pulling over. So why stop?

Of course criminals are going to break the law, that's what they do. But don't think for a second that they don't consider the penalties, or lack thereof. Put real time behind a crime, and it alters their decision making. It may not stop them, but if they're willing to threaten the lives of everyone on the road, at least there'll be some consequences.

It will work as well as the "3 strike laws". If you think those have been working great, then I am sure you will think the above will do wonders as well.

As far as the above, if you think a truck is worth the risk of innocent bystanders getting killed, I don't think we'll ever get to an agreement on these types of policies.

Lastly, if you need your truck for work and you keep all your tools in there, make sure you keep adequate insurance, with a company that works quickly. There is also business interruption insurance available.

[turtlespeed 212]

Bignugget

The sad reality is your friend is just looking for the government to give him a hand-out.

Tell him to get off his lazy ass and find the car himself!

Stop relying on the government entitlement system to do everything for him.

This is what is wrong with America. Everyone expects helicopters to go search for their cars. If they just took some personal responsibility and did their own work, they could find their stolen cars.

Your buddy just doesn't want it bad enough.

Actually, he told the cops that he was going to go after the thief. They told he that they "didn't need him to do that."

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[chedlin 0]

There was a case in Austin where a truck thief killed someone while fleeing and he was charged with 1st degree murder. But the fact is a family was torn apart and you can't reassemble the dead person.

And when you consider the costs of air support and 20 police cars to chase someone I expect that is more than the value of most stolen vehicles.

It's a terrible calculus. If criminals think they will get away when the police won't chase them, they won't stop. But we really don't want people dying over cars and trucks.

I think the departments that leave it to officer discretion are on the right path, as they can judge the conditions. But the death I mentioned at the start of the post was after a 45 second chase. Frankly it probably would have happened even with no chase.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

It will work as well as the "3 strike laws". If you think those have been working great, then I am sure you will think the above will do wonders as well.

Actually, my idea is the complete opposite of three strikes. My idea puts a severe penalty on a crime that is likely to lead to death or great bodily harm to innocents and participants. It's intended to remove the motivation for criminals to run. Sure, some of them still will, but so what? We have laws against murder and criminals still do that. The point is to punish felons taking an action that will likely lead to death. It's not that different from felony murder rule or applying homicide charges to drunks involved in fatal motor vehicle wrecks.

Three strikes, on the other hand, applies life sentences to people committing piddly little frauds.

Tell me you see the difference.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[wmw999 2,130]

Does the added penalty for an aggravated assault over simple assault deter a lot of people? I wonder. And in that case, sometimes we're actually talking about planning, rather than someone's reaction when being chased.

I understand your point, and kind of like the additional aggravation point, but I"m not sure it'd be effective.

As to three strikes, I wasn't able to serve on a jury simply because I could not sentence someone to life in prison for torching a $2000 car (third felony). No people involved. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Kennedy 0]

I'd say the difference there is accurately punishing bad conduct. They say really bad assaults are more serious than "simple" assaults, and deserve more in a sentence. I have no problem with different classes of crime having different penalties.

In the case of chases, we have to take into account the threat posed. Not a great analogy, but consider: there is lying to the police, running from the police, fighting with the police when they try to arrest/search/whatever, and running from police in a car. Compare it to threatening someone, threatening someone with a weapon, punching someone, beating them requiring hospitalization, and beating them requiring bodybags and a morgue.

I am suggesting that fleeing from police in a car is a great deal higher in seriousness than it's sentencing structure. Right now it is "running away in a car is bad" (on the level of other serious traffic violations). I say it should be "fleeing from the police, putting innocents, police, and suspect in grave danger is REALLY bad and should be sentenced accordingly" (with other violent felonies).

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[normiss 622]

"In the case of chases, we have to take into account the threat posed. Not a great analogy, but consider: there is lying to the police, running from the police, fighting with the police when they try to arrest/search/whatever, and running from police in a car. Compare it to threatening someone, threatening someone with a weapon, punching someone, beating them requiring hospitalization, and beating them requiring bodybags and a morgue. "

Given a LOAD of recent stories on how innocents are treated by LEO?
I might reconsider stopping too. I'd make a call and head for a neutral place.
I don't trust them anymore than they trust me when we meet.

[kelpdiver 2]

Kennedy

Quote

It will work as well as the "3 strike laws". If you think those have been working great, then I am sure you will think the above will do wonders as well.

Actually, my idea is the complete opposite of three strikes. My idea puts a severe penalty on a crime that is likely to lead to death or great bodily harm to innocents and participants. It's intended to remove the motivation for criminals to run. Sure, some of them still will, but so what? We have laws against murder and criminals still do that. The point is to punish felons taking an action that will likely lead to death. It's not that different from felony murder rule or applying homicide charges to drunks involved in fatal motor vehicle wrecks.

Three strikes, on the other hand, applies life sentences to people committing piddly little frauds.

It also gives life sentences to people committing serious felonies. Like stealing cars. If they're already facing a 3 strike modifier, then piling on an extra 10 years for high speed resisting arrest doesn't change anything in the motivations.

It's effectiveness also requires people to know and rationally view this is a substantial increase, and thereby demotivate them from trying to run. I fear, as mentioned by others, that it instead would be most effective for piling on charges against a target, just as people already get hit with bullshit resisting arrest charges when the LEO is behaving improperly.

[skycop 0]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the LEO fecal sandwich, want a bite?
I've been doing this for a LONG time and have seen policies come and go. I've called off many more pursuits than I let my guys continue.
Pursuits are a lot of fun but very dangerous for all involved, about one in a hundred end in a death, either the bad guy, an officer, or a bystander or all the above. In the grand scheme of things the investment isn't worth the return, society has pretty much determined. We chased a bank-robber once across state lines, he ended up running into a high school, that got pretty sporty.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"