Mosque Ground Zero

[jakee 1,257]

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Dude, give it up. We disagree. They have no logical reason from a religious stand point to build it there save one. Period

And the reason is not a religious one, it is one of a victory

And even if that were true: So What?

They don't need to justify themselves to you, they are free to build it wherever they want. If you want to stop them from building there specifically because of which religion they are then that is a freedom of religion issue.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=victory+mosque&aq=0&aqi=g3g-m2&aql=&oq=victory+mos&gs_rfai=CqKXVmY1uTIOlGo7EM-_H7L8MAAAAqgQFT9DAUSM

Ok.

So even if we accept this paranoid fantasy that it's a "victory mosque" - why is allowing or blocking it not an issue of freedom of religion?

If you dont understand that now there is nothing that can be said thay will help

Interpretation: you are unable to provide a coherent explanation of your opinion that doesn't expose your prejudices.

It NEVER ceases to amaze me.. how many Americans really do HATE what the founding fathers intended this country to be.

[rushmc 18]

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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=victory+mosque&aq=0&aqi=g3g-m2&aql=&oq=victory+mos&gs_rfai=CqKXVmY1uTIOlGo7EM-_H7L8MAAAAqgQFT9DAUSM

Ok.

So even if we accept this paranoid fantasy that it's a "victory mosque" - why is allowing or blocking it not an issue of freedom of religion?

If you dont understand that now there is nothing that can be said thay will help

Interpretation: you are unable to provide a coherent explanation of your opinion that doesn't expose your prejudices.

It NEVER ceases to amaze me.. how many Americans really do HATE what the founding fathers intended this country to be.

It is amazing isnt it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skydiverkeith 1]

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Every one has an opinion.


But talk to me when you have a reason that is based on the laws that govern this country and not emotions.

When you have no logic backing your belief well there is no point in a debate.
Belive what you want

Kind of ironic considering that all laws were created because of emotion...

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[Amazon 7]

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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=victory+mosque&aq=0&aqi=g3g-m2&aql=&oq=victory+mos&gs_rfai=CqKXVmY1uTIOlGo7EM-_H7L8MAAAAqgQFT9DAUSM

Ok.

So even if we accept this paranoid fantasy that it's a "victory mosque" - why is allowing or blocking it not an issue of freedom of religion?

If you dont understand that now there is nothing that can be said thay will help

Interpretation: you are unable to provide a coherent explanation of your opinion that doesn't expose your prejudices.

It NEVER ceases to amaze me.. how many Americans really do HATE what the founding fathers intended this country to be.

It is amazing isnt it

You are having another rushmc day I see

[normiss 622]

yup.

written in 1779 by Thomas Jefferson, proclaimed:

"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

[normiss 622]

ummm...private organizations are under no burden to disclose that information.
Why the paranoia to require this one to do such?

[dgskydive 0]

ummmm. The Attorney General has the right to ask for this information since the Cordoba Initiative is registered as a charitable organization, and has not yet done so.

Dom

[wmw999 2,146]

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Dude, give it up. We disagree. They have no logical reason from a religious stand point to build it there save one. Period

Actually, they have just as much justification as any other religion to build a house of worship. There are Muslims who work in lower Manhattan, and they might like somewhere to go during the day and early evening on the way home from work; particularly since Friday is normally a workday -- this will give people a place to go for prayer on the way home Friday evening.

They have been using this site for quite awhile, but only as an informal mosque. Now they want to increase the number of services offered. I believe that's what a business (and any religion is a business in this context) does when they're growing.

Marc, your objections appear to be largely emotional. There's nothing wrong with that -- 9/11 engenders some strong emotions, and you're not the only person they engender some strong emotions in. People are emotional creatures. That's why this is a hot topic. But trying to turn it into a non-emotional objection really exposes its emotional core.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Skyrad 0]

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Tell us, what would you do if it is found out that this mosque you are supporting has a hidden terrorist cell in it?

What would you do if it was found out AFTER the attrocity was already committed?

Let me guess, you would defend your position? No?
Oh, well then by all means the only other thing to do is to recant and apologize, right?

Would you write a letter of apology to every victim?

Could it be that it is better to not give that situation a chance?

So you want to stop any mosque being built because of the possibility that it might be linked to terror in the future?

Many here want to make this about freedom of religion. It is not. Period

In any event it may be a non-issue seeing as they may not be able to get enough skilled labor to build it

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/20/2010-08-20_we_wont_build_it_hardhats_say_no_way_they_will_work_on_wtc_mosque.html

Yeah what a great group of Americans there... not that those kind of conservatives would think about what is actually IN the constitution of this country

Perhaps more classes in civics would have helped them to understand our constitution instead of the Friday night football game and after party.

From Wiki

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment refers to the first of several pronouncements in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, stating that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". Together with the Free Exercise Clause ("... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"), these two clauses make up what are commonly said as the "religion clauses" of the First Amendment.

The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another. The first approach is called the "separation" or "no aid" interpretation, while the second approach is called the "non-preferential" or "accommodation" interpretation. The accommodation interpretation prohibits Congress from preferring one religion over another, but does not prohibit the government's entry into religious domain to make accommodations in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause.

The clause itself was seen as a reaction to the Church of England, established as the official church of England and some of the colonies, during the colonial era.

It won't make a difference, it will get built. there are plenty of construction workers in a country with 260 million people in it. Give them more money and they'll put their hats on alright.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[normiss 622]

IRS maybe, nothing publicly required that I know of and by no means attorney general unless something illegal is going on.

[wmw999 2,146]

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there are plenty of construction workers in a country with 260 million people in it. Give them more money and they'll put their hats on alright.

There are undoubtedly a perfectly reasonable number of construction workers who see this as a matter of freedom of religion and the ability to use your property as you see fit.

Just as a single imam does not speak for all of Islam, and Pat Robertson does not speak for all of Christianity, Timothy McVeight didn't speak for all veterans, and I don't speak for all skydivers, construction workers probably aren't a monolithic group who all think alike .

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[shropshire 0]

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Ok, I'll have another look. But 'Because without America there is no free world'

Bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa .[cough] aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa [splutter] aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa [jeeze you're killing me] wwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[BIGUN 1,069]

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ummm...private organizations are under no burden to disclose that information.
Why the paranoia to require this one to do such?

There is some concern that partial funding would come from Iran.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/builders_leave_door_open_to_unholy_NadIfsGSyhBFOmsS7S2QOL

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[dgskydive 0]

Research it. He is not obligated to do so, but he can and should.

Dom

[Skyrad 0]

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there are plenty of construction workers in a country with 260 million people in it. Give them more money and they'll put their hats on alright.

There are undoubtedly a perfectly reasonable number of construction workers who see this as a matter of freedom of religion and the ability to use your property as you see fit.

Just as a single imam does not speak for all of Islam, and Pat Robertson does not speak for all of Christianity, Timothy McVeight didn't speak for all veterans, and I don't speak for all skydivers, construction workers probably aren't a monolithic group who all think alike .

Wendy P.

I was refering to the 'pledge' that was mentioned in the artical, you did read the article didn't you Wendy?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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ummm...private organizations are under no burden to disclose that information.
Why the paranoia to require this one to do such?

There is some concern that partial funding would come from Iran.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/builders_leave_door_open_to_unholy_NadIfsGSyhBFOmsS7S2QOL

Coool... so then when Ahmedinijad comes to visit it.. he really can go next door to the gay bar.. since there are no other gay men in Iran.
Its a culture exchange

[wmw999 2,146]

I did; I just didn't see money as the only possible motivation for construction workers to work on it.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[BIGUN 1,069]

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ummm...private organizations are under no burden to disclose that information.
Why the paranoia to require this one to do such?

There is some concern that partial funding would come from Iran.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/builders_leave_door_open_to_unholy_NadIfsGSyhBFOmsS7S2QOL

Coool... so then when Ahmedinijad comes to visit it.. he really can go next door to the gay bar.. since there are no other gay men in Iran.
Its a culture exchange

If has more to do with..

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On August 19, 1997, the President [Clinton] signed Executive Order 13059 clarifying Executive Orders 12957 and 12959 and confirming that virtually all trade and investment activities with Iran by U.S. persons, wherever located, are prohibited.

SOURCE: http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/ascii/iran.txt

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[normiss 622]

Actually I tried - I couldn't find anything that does require them to report.
I don't believe that suspicion alone should guilt them into proving anything.
Just because of baseless fears we should not get in the practice of requiring people to prove anything.
I'd hate to see that requirement of everyone.
Talk about big brother government.

[Amazon 7]

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ummm...private organizations are under no burden to disclose that information.
Why the paranoia to require this one to do such?

There is some concern that partial funding would come from Iran.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/builders_leave_door_open_to_unholy_NadIfsGSyhBFOmsS7S2QOL

Coool... so then when Ahmedinijad comes to visit it.. he really can go next door to the gay bar.. since there are no other gay men in Iran.
Its a culture exchange

If has more to do with..

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On August 19, 1997, the President [Clinton] signed Executive Order 13059 clarifying Executive Orders 12957 and 12959 and confirming that virtually all trade and investment activities with Iran by U.S. persons, wherever located, are prohibited.

SOURCE: http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/ascii/iran.txt

OMG....

Careful now... do you REALLLY want to go on record stating that Clinton did something praiseworthy?

[dgskydive 0]

I think it is more then a suspicion about where the money may be coming from. The Cordoba Initiative already said that they will not rule out taking money from Iran. Since they wont say that they "wont" take money from Iran, then I think it is reasonable to think that they may and we need to know that.

Dom

[BIGUN 1,069]

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OMG....

Careful now... do you REALLLY want to go on record stating that Clinton did something praiseworthy?

I'm already on record as stating that he did many praiseworthy things.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[normiss 622]

Thanks for providing the impetus for me to research some more.


Per the CI web site:

You will need a lot of contributors. Who will review your donor list?

The New York Charities Bureau and the US Treasury Department will review the donor list to assure that all funding sources are vetted to their satisfaction and approved. In addition, our Trustees and Advisory Board will be comprised of a multi-faith group of distinguished individuals who will ensure that the community center stays true to its objectives of peace, tolerance and understanding between all.

[Skyrad 0]

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I did; I just didn't see money as the only possible motivation for construction workers to work on it.

Wendy P.

Quite right, I was a bit flippant in my post.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca