Mosque Ground Zero

[rushmc 18]

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You're right.
With 80-some odd mosques in Manhattan, they clearly are not building where their believer (customers) are.

whooosh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,826]

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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=victory+mosque&aq=0&aqi=g3g-m2&aql=&oq=victory+mos&gs_rfai=CqKXVmY1uTIOlGo7EM-_H7L8MAAAAqgQFT9DAUSM

Ok.

So even if we accept this paranoid fantasy that it's a "victory mosque" - why is allowing or blocking it not an issue of freedom of religion?

If you dont understand that now there is nothing that can be said thay will help

Interpretation: you are unable to provide a coherent explanation of your opinion that doesn't expose your prejudices.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,347]

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If you dont care then stop posting here then.

I don't care about the reasons why the Cordoba Initiative wants to put their Mosque where they do.

I do care about the reasons people use to convince themselves it's ok to block other people's freedoms.

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Because it is not about religion. For the very reasons, links and query's I have posted here today

But the results of the google search you posted were all about religion.

What is it about if it's not about religion? It's a mosque.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Skyrad 0]

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Ask yourself this question
Why do they want to build it there?

I don't care. It's none of my business. They can put it wherever they want for whatever reason they want.



Why do you think it's not a freedom of religion issue?

If you dont care then stop posting here then.

Because it is not about religion. For the very reasons, links and query's I have posted here today

Marc you haven't really given any argument other than you think we're being 'played'. Can you elaborate on why you think this is the case?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rushmc 18]

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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=victory+mosque&aq=0&aqi=g3g-m2&aql=&oq=victory+mos&gs_rfai=CqKXVmY1uTIOlGo7EM-_H7L8MAAAAqgQFT9DAUSM

Ok.

So even if we accept this paranoid fantasy that it's a "victory mosque" - why is allowing or blocking it not an issue of freedom of religion?

If you dont understand that now there is nothing that can be said thay will help

Interpretation: you are unable to provide a coherent explanation of your opinion that doesn't expose your prejudices.

Already did that but I see you are back in your teaching mode again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 723]

as expected.

[rushmc 18]

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Ask yourself this question
Why do they want to build it there?

I don't care. It's none of my business. They can put it wherever they want for whatever reason they want.



Why do you think it's not a freedom of religion issue?

If you dont care then stop posting here then.

Because it is not about religion. For the very reasons, links and query's I have posted here today

Marc you haven't really given any argument other than you think we're being 'played'. Can you elaborate on why you think this is the case?

I do not know or necessary think we are or are not being played. I just found the angle instersting as something to consider.
They are a very smart people and they have been known to use our sensibilities and morality against us. Look how well they manipulate the media

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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as expected.

Yes, it was

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

When you say they I guess you are talking about Al Q and their franchisees. Yes you are right they are cleaver and very media savvy. However it is a bit of a leap to lump the people behind the Mosque in with them without any proof.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rushmc 18]

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When you say they I guess you are talking about Al Q and their franchisees. Yes you are right they are cleaver and very media savvy. However it is a bit of a leap to lump the people behind the Mosque in with them without any proof.

Your point of proof is well taken

I guess history of what a group has done in the past can be a good indicator of what they may do in the future

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

Are you afraid that Japan will attack the USA again? Or that the Catholic Church will being murdering thousands in persuit of ridding the devil from the world? Or that the USA will nuke another country twice more?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rushmc 18]

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Are you afraid that Japan will attack the USA again? Or that the Catholic Church will being murdering thousands in persuit of ridding the devil from the world? Or that the USA will nuke another country twice more?

You can take this to any extreme you want to try and make a agrument if you wish
But you will do it without me

They have built nearly a 100 admited victory mosques. I find it hard to believe this is not just another one because it makes no sense to build it there other than for this reason

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

Really? Who has admitted that there have been 100 mosques built to mark some sort of victory?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[normiss 723]

The simple fact that their current location is significantly over crowded isn't reason enough?

I don't know about you, but better facilities when there are huge crowds is always a nice improvement.

It would suck to be stuck with a 182 when you have 200 people show up to skydive every day.

[Skyrad 0]

'The fruit of silence is tranquility.'

Arab proverb

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[freefal 0]

I don’t normally post in SC, but this quote really caught my eye: “Ground Zero is today an American, historical memorial. It is hollowed ground.”… Ok, if it’s truly hallowed ground, then why don’t people have problems with the ‘gentleman’s clubs’, peep shows, bars, etc. that are in the same area as (and in some cases closer to GZ than) this proposed Mosque? I guess it’s ok to buy porn and cheeseburgers on “hallowed ground” but we can’t have a place of worship.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/16/2010-08-16_a_sea_of_filth_near_ground_zer0_mosque_gets_all_the_press_but_porns_around_corne.html

http://daryllang.com/blog/4421

“‘Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty.” -Ronald Dworkin

"Ignorance is bliss" and "Patience is a virtue"... So if you're stupid and don't mind waiting around for a while, I guess you can have a pretty good life!

[Darius11 12]

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Interpretation: you are unable to provide a coherent explanation of your opinion that doesn't expose your prejudices.

Bingo, and i am going to use that. Perfect explanation.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 18]

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Interpretation: you are unable to provide a coherent explanation of your opinion that doesn't expose your prejudices.

Bingo, and i am going to use that. Perfect explanation.

I am still predicting it will not get built there. And it should not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

Every one has an opinion.


But talk to me when you have a reason that is based on the laws that govern this country and not emotions.

When you have no logic backing your belief well there is no point in a debate.
Belive what you want

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 18]

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Every one has an opinion.


But talk to me when you have a reason that is based on the laws that govern this country and not emotions.

When you have no logic backing your belief well there is no point in a debate.
Belive what you want

I gave my logic. Just because you do not agree with it makes it null.

There is no reason to build it there. It is not a population center. In fact it is either zones commercial or industrial (I do not remember for sure)

So we disagree

I just refuse to play a pompous ass when someone had an opposing opinion


>

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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Tell us, what would you do if it is found out that this mosque you are supporting has a hidden terrorist cell in it?

What would you do if it was found out AFTER the attrocity was already committed?

Let me guess, you would defend your position? No?
Oh, well then by all means the only other thing to do is to recant and apologize, right?

Would you write a letter of apology to every victim?

Could it be that it is better to not give that situation a chance?

So you want to stop any mosque being built because of the possibility that it might be linked to terror in the future?

Hey you dont expect RATIONAL fear do you?????

[jakee 1,347]

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I gave my logic. Just because you do not agree with it makes it null.

Logic? What logic? "I can't see any reason why they should want to build there so they shouldn't be allowed to?" That's not logic.

You still haven't even given any reason why it's not an issue of freedom of religion that wasn't related to how you think the religion behaves.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

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I gave my logic. Just because you do not agree with it makes it null.

Logic? What logic? "I can't see any reason why they should want to build there so they shouldn't be allowed to?" That's not logic.

You still haven't even given any reason why it's not an issue of freedom of religion that wasn't related to how you think the religion behaves.

Dude, give it up. We disagree. They have no logical reason from a religious stand point to build it there save one. Period

And the reason is not a religious one, it is one of a victory

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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Tell us, what would you do if it is found out that this mosque you are supporting has a hidden terrorist cell in it?

What would you do if it was found out AFTER the attrocity was already committed?

Let me guess, you would defend your position? No?
Oh, well then by all means the only other thing to do is to recant and apologize, right?

Would you write a letter of apology to every victim?

Could it be that it is better to not give that situation a chance?

So you want to stop any mosque being built because of the possibility that it might be linked to terror in the future?

Many here want to make this about freedom of religion. It is not. Period

In any event it may be a non-issue seeing as they may not be able to get enough skilled labor to build it

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/20/2010-08-20_we_wont_build_it_hardhats_say_no_way_they_will_work_on_wtc_mosque.html

Yeah what a great group of Americans there... not that those kind of conservatives would think about what is actually IN the constitution of this country

Perhaps more classes in civics would have helped them to understand our constitution instead of the Friday night football game and after party.

From Wiki

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment refers to the first of several pronouncements in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, stating that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". Together with the Free Exercise Clause ("... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"), these two clauses make up what are commonly said as the "religion clauses" of the First Amendment.

The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another. The first approach is called the "separation" or "no aid" interpretation, while the second approach is called the "non-preferential" or "accommodation" interpretation. The accommodation interpretation prohibits Congress from preferring one religion over another, but does not prohibit the government's entry into religious domain to make accommodations in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause.

The clause itself was seen as a reaction to the Church of England, established as the official church of England and some of the colonies, during the colonial era.

[dgskydive 0]

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However it is a bit of a leap to lump the people behind the Mosque in with them without any proof.

Why don't they just open their books and show where the money is coming from to build it? Could it be that they dont want anyone to know? Could it be that they are getting money from Terrorist organizations?

Dom