Purple Heart Awards For Mental Stress?

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Purple Heart Awards For Mental Stress

"With an increasing number of troops being diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, the modern military is debating awarding one of the nation's top military citations to veterans with psychological wounds, not just physical ones.

"The dispute reflects a broader question roiling the military: Can psychological traumas, no matter how debilitating, be considered equivalent to dismembering physical wounds?"

Source: Wall Street Journal

I was scared once when someone was shooting at me - I want my Purple Heart award!

[billvon 2,400]

>I was scared once when someone was shooting at me - I want my
>Purple Heart award!

I think if you ever met a veteran with serious PTSD, you would not be so quick to mock them.

[DanG 1]

I voted no, but I wish there had been a choice without the exclamation point. Nice way to put thoughts in people's minds.

I voted no because the Purple Heart is only awarded for wounds arising directly from enemy action. It is very hard to define an immediate cause for PTSD in many cases, although enemy action is certainly a very common cause.

When I was at Walter Reed I met some guys who had both physical and mental wounds. In some cases the mental wounds were far worse. One of the men I was wounded with lost a eye and an ear, and when I talked to him the problem he complained about was the nightmares. It was like he could brush off the physical wounds because he knew how they would heal (or not heal), but the mental anguish might never go away.

It's easy to dismiss mental trauma by equating it with mild fear. It is also complete bullshit. I lost an arm to enemy action, thus "earning" my Purple Heart. Losing the arm sucks, but I'm constantly thankful that my mind remained intact.

- Dan G

[nerdgirl 0]

Is the discussion about purple hearts for "mental stress" or for traumatic brain injury and PTSD?

Closed head injuries resulting in TBI (one correlated and potential causal factor for PTSD) can be observed using modern imaging techniques -- many which were unavailable 15 years ago -- and show real, physical injuries to the brain.

I concur with SecDef Gates; it's an interesting idea to be looked at. Perhaps so that underlying issues can be addressed more effectively.

There's a real issue underlying the Purple Heart proposal w/which the services, particularly the Army Medical Command and the Navy Medical Services Corps (which, as you know, serves the USMC) are struggling to deal with prevalance of TBI due to closed head injuries from IEDs. From a 2005 estimate of TBI: “All admitted patients [at Walter Reed Army Medical Center] who have been exposed to a blast are routinely evaluated for brain injury; 59 percent of them [soldiers] have been given a diagnosis of TBI. Of these injuries, 56 percent are considered moderate or severe, and 44 percent are mild.”

Awarding a Purple Heart for TBI or PTSD doesn't address the real underlying medical and psychological issues nor the long-term social and economic consequences. Minimizing the reality of TBI & PTSD as "mental stress" probably doesn't help either.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[downwardspiral 0]

I voted no because they already have awards for mental stress. Their called campaign medals.

I'd be surprised to find any soldier or Marine that would support this.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[DZJ 0]

Have you been in combat?

[christelsabine 1]

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I was scared once when someone was shooting at me - I want my Purple Heart award!

Oh well. As half of your population - or more - is armed, that situation is happening on a daily basis.

So everybody in your armed country is a potential Purple Heart receptor?

Oh man. some awards are getting cheap.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Gawain 0]

I've yet to meet any PTSD vets who think it merits a Purple Heart. PTSD is serious sh*t though.

Everyone that deploys earns a campaign medal and a combat patch. The purple heart is another story though in my opinion.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[miked10270 0]

I voted "YES".

I believe it should be awarded for the severity of the injury rather than the type.

(Anyone else remember the MASH episode when Frank Burns cut himself shaving in a combat zone...)?

While mental illness/wound/damage isn't visible in the way a physical illness/wound/damage is, We're now thankfully aware of it's existence. Times have changed since the days of court-martial or execution for "Lack of Moral Fibre".

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[mr2mk1g 10]

No to "mental stress" as it's termed in the article.

Maybe yes to "PTSD" as diagnosed in accordance with either ICD 10 or DSM IV.

If demonstrably caused by direct enemy action, and diagnosed in accordance with recognised standards, and genuinely amounting to a psychological injury - possibly there is an argument for saying yes.

Legal systems have now wised up to the fact that psychological damage can indeed be a genuine injury, with just as serious life effects as loosing your leg etc, so long as certain pre-requisites are met.

I see no reason in principal why the military shouldn't also, so long as similar pre-requisites are met.

And this coming from a staunch "defendant" lawyer who's first reaction to any claim for psychological injuries is that the claimant's just a lying arsehole, out to make money from a simply fender bender etc. and that they should jolly well just pull themselves together and stop acting like a whiney little nonce.

[SkyPiggie 0]

Not only "no", but "hell no!".

If those pansies want an award for mental stress, then give them a new medal specifically designed for them: a yellow heart. The yellow symbolizes their cowardice under fire. They can wear it with pride in front of all the people whose lives they jeopardized by not performing properly under stress.

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DZJ: Have you been in combat?

If you have some freakin point to make, then make it. Do you think that everybody who has ever been shot at in anger deserves a freakin medal?

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cristelsabine: Oh man. some awards are getting cheap.

As ridiculous as your posts are, you actually, probably accidentally, hit upon a good point here. Kind of like a blind squirrel finding a nut.

Anyways, the Purple Heart should continue to be awarded as originally intended. Period. We shouldn't go giving them out like candy to any Tom, Dick and Harry that claims mental stress. If you do that, then you render the honor of the award meaningless.

It's like those berets that used to signify that a soldier had undergone extraordinary training to belong to the special forces, and then they went and gave a beret to everybody, because somebody's feelings were hurt. Oh boo freakin hoo. The beret should mean something special. Now it means nothing.

So now they want to do the same thing with Purple Hearts? Hell, just give every recruit a Silver Star when they graduate from boot camp, and be done with it. While we're at it, give every first jump student a 1000-jump Gold Wings award to show how cool they are.

This army is turning into a bunch of namby pamby cry-babies. Suck it up, cupcakes. Combat is stressful - everyone gets that. You don't deserve an award for it. You deserve to be proud of your service, and deserve the admiration and respect of the civilian population. That should be enough for you. It's worked just fine for all the generations before you.

[Skyrad 0]

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Legal systems have now wised up to the fact that psychological damage can indeed be a genuine injury,

They came to thr realisation suddenly with the sound ....."KER'CHING!"

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with just as serious life effects as loosing your leg etc, so long as certain pre-requisites are met.

...You can sue!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[AndyBoyd 0]

Can anyone give the specific wording of the military regulation for awarding a purple heart? Does it require the wound to be physical? If not, I'd say that yes, purple hearts could be given if a physician diagnosed a soldier with legitimate combat induced PTSD. From what I've read about that condition, it can be every bit as debilitating as a physical wound. Full disclosure - I've never been in the military, and I've certainly never been in combat. Just my 2 cents.

[Para_Frog 1]

Here

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[likearock 1]

For those who voted no, would it make a difference if the PTSD was brought about by being tortured by the enemy?

[AndyBoyd 0]

If a soldier's PTSD was acquired in one of the ways described in the regs, and required treatment by a medical officer, the answer seems to be yes, the injured soldier should get a purple heart.

[jcd11235 0]

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If those pansies want an award for mental stress, then give them a new medal specifically designed for them: a yellow heart. The yellow symbolizes their cowardice under fire. They can wear it with pride in front of all the people whose lives they jeopardized by not performing properly under stress.

Spoken like a truly enlightened combat veteran (from the seventeenth century).

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DZJ: Have you been in combat?

If you have some freakin point to make, then make it. Do you think that everybody who has ever been shot at in anger deserves a freakin medal?

It's a fair question. If you are going to judge those combat veterans who suffer PTSD as cowards, it's quite relevant to understand your perspective.

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Anyways, the Purple Heart should continue to be awarded as originally intended. Period. We shouldn't go giving them out like candy to any Tom, Dick and Harry that claims mental stress. If you do that, then you render the honor of the award meaningless.

Hmmm … I have an uncle who had to go out of his way to not be put in for a purple heart when, drinking back in the rear, he tripped and fell, cutting himself on a beer can in Viet Nam. I've heard from multiple VN vets that Purple Heart medals were often given out like candy in that war police action.

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It's like those berets that used to signify that a soldier had undergone extraordinary training to belong to the special forces, and then they went and gave a beret to everybody, because somebody's feelings were hurt. Oh boo freakin hoo. The beret should mean something special. Now it means nothing.

Actually, the black beret was worn by Rangers, not Special Forces, who get to wear green berets. (Airborne wear a maroon beret.) I wouldn't consider having what it takes to be a soldier "nothing." Quite a lot of people don't have what it takes to make it through basic training and AIT. I can't think of any other job I've ever held for which I was expected to work 72 hour shifts (without sleep) in the pouring rain and expected to be as motivated during the 72nd hour as in the 1st.

Your claim that the beret now means nothing is total bullshit.

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While we're at it, give every first jump student a 1000-jump Gold Wings award to show how cool they are.

Once upon a time, having 1000 jumps was a huge accomplishment. Aircraft were small, and good landings could pound the shit out of people. Malfunctions required more complex emergency procedures. Surviving that process 1000 times was a big deal. Today, with twin turbine aircraft offering twenty minute turnarounds, rigs that can be packed in ~5 minutes by a motivated packer, three ring release systems and GPS, 1000 jumps doesn't even get you off rookie status in many places. Heck, I've known jumpers that had half as many again by the time they were sixteen years old. I've known many jumpers that have made well over 10,000 skydives. My friend Gus Wing (BSBD) once said that 10,000 jumps was no big deal.

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This army is turning into a bunch of namby pamby cry-babies. Suck it up, cupcakes.

That's pretty easy to say from your armchair. How about heading down to your local recruiter to take your ASVAB and get a ride to MEPS, signing up, proving you have what it takes to wear even the black beret, cupcake. Let me guess, that old knee injury from high school football practice is preventing you from serving.

Or, perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps, once upon a time you did actually have the courage to sign up, or at least report when you got your draft notice. In that case, how about following this man's example? Otherwise, sit down and STFU.

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Combat is stressful - everyone gets that. You don't deserve an award for it.

I don't think anyone is claiming that PTSD is caused by simply being in combat. And if it were, that would be a pretty big indication that someone had the courage to fight in the face of a greater than typical fear of being shot at.

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You deserve to be proud of your service, and deserve the admiration and respect of the civilian population.

Agreed.

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That should be enough for you. It's worked just fine for all the generations before you.

Has it? Are you saying that no veterans from previous wars have had to struggle for the rest of their lives, some with more success than others, with PTSD, or, perhaps more accurately, shell shock?

From George Carlin's Euphemisms (1990):

I don't like words that hide the truth. I don't words that conceal reality. I don't like euphemisms, or euphemistic language. And American English is loaded with euphemisms. Cause Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent the kind of a soft language to protest themselves from it, and it gets worse with every generation. For some reason, it just keeps getting worse. I'll give you an example of that. There's a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It's when a fighting person's nervous system has been stressed to it's absolute peak and maximum. Can't take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap. In the first world war, that condition was called shell shock. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, shell shock. Almost sounds like the guns themselves. That was seventy years ago. Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called battle fatigue. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn't seem to hurt as much. Fatigue is a nicer word than shock. Shell shock! Battle fatigue. Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called operational exhaustion. Hey, were up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It's totally sterile now. Operational exhaustion. Sounds like something that might happen to your car. Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it's no surprise that the very same condition was called post-traumatic stress disorder. Still eight syllables, but we've added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. Post-traumatic stress disorder. I'll bet you if we'd of still been calling it shell shock, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time. I'll betcha. I'll betcha.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

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Here

Thanks for posting that link. Given the information provided there, along with the information provided by nerdgirl in post #4 of this thread, I will have to vote yes, as it appears that PTSD often meets the criteria of the medal.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Para_Frog 1]

Thank YOU. Excellent post.

I'm on the fence regarding the awarding of Purple Hearts for PTSD simply because most of the people who draw up the military standards to define it are idiots.

But PTSD is a very real injury. To that point, I completely agree.

Just because it's easier to identify in some poor kid who never planned on seeing combat than it is in someone bread for combat doesn't minimize it's effects. Took a lot of sick friends (and a tongue lashing from my dear, old mother after I became an officer) for me to finally realize that.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[Gawain 0]

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Thank YOU. Excellent post.

I'm on the fence regarding the awarding of Purple Hearts for PTSD simply because most of the people who draw up the military standards to define it are idiots.

But PTSD is a very real injury. To that point, I completely agree.

Just because it's easier to identify in some poor kid who never planned on seeing combat than it is in someone bread for combat doesn't minimize it's effects. Took a lot of sick friends (and a tongue lashing from my dear, old mother after I became an officer) for me to finally realize that.

Here we disagree. PTSD is a very real disorder. Not everyone that goes into combat gets it, and there are certainly very real circumstances where some that may acquire it really should not have...meaning a psychological condition, versus traumatic stress condition.

Also, remember the history of the Purple Heart. It started as a badge of merit. Under "modern" conditions, it is awarded due to "...killed or wounded in any action against an enemy of the United States".

PTSD is not a readily apparent condition, and even in combat vets, may not be rooted in combat actions. There are also varying degrees of PTSD and even in psychological circles is not absolute in its effects.

I'm stating these views from a narrow view, and only my experience. Of my squad, five out of eight were wounded. I was wounded, and was assessed no signs of PTSD. Two others that were wounded have different signs and symptoms (one aggressive, the other passive in nature). Two others no signs. One guy that was not wounded has some "stresses" but he does not believe he's debilitated by it. That's a messy picture out of barely more than half-a-dozen people.

The point being, it's unworkable in the end...it's an ad hoc assertion, including the assertions of those that may or may not feel wounded.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[GQ_jumper 4]

There's no reasonable way to determine which cases of PTSD would merit a purple heart and which ones wouldn't. Two people can go through the exact same thing in a fight and one comes out mentally damaged for life and the other is not the slightest bit bothered by it, does one deserve a purple heart and the other doesn't? And what about all the people who never left the wire, spent 15 months on a base, while the worst thing that happened to them was they heard indirect fire off in the distance and they come home with "ptsd" do they get purple hearts too??

If we're going to give purple hearts away for every little bump, bruise, and snivel that everyone in combat gets then I want mine for my hearing loss, bad back, torn LCL, the chunks of metal still buried in my hand and knee, and all the skin missing from my knuckles, just to be fair to everyone. My teammate cut his fingers open and needed stitches during a construction project over there, lets give him one too.

I agree that PTSD is no easy condition to deal with, I have experienced it first hand to a limited extent, but it doesn't warrant a purple heart.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Para_Frog 1]

I'm trying to decipher where we differ Max. You mean disorder V. injury?

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[BIGUN 1,053]

I voted no.
And, I thoroughly disagree with the "Yellow heart for cowardice" comment.
While PTSD, is a real psychological condition based on environmental factors which program the adrenal gland, it is not an injury resulting from physical external factors like a bullet, shrapnel, IEDs, etc.

Medals and awards have been dumb-downed enough. The Purple Heart should be left alone. The Purple Heart is for a physical injury during combat.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[nanook 1]

If you are captured or a POW and get wounded as a result or during, you are entitled to the award. Therefore, you would get the award for being tortured, not for PTSD. So in a sense, yes you would get the award for being tortured (physically).

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[likearock 1]

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If you are captured or a POW and get wounded as a result or during, you are entitled to the award. Therefore, you would get the award for being tortured, not for PTSD. So in a sense, yes you would get the award for being tortured (physically).

Torture does not necessarily leave a physical wound. Its consequences are nonetheless very real and can be more long lasting than physical injury.