mnealtx 0 #151 July 15, 2005 QuoteAs always, the way to find out why something does or does not happen in politics is to follow the money. Who benefits financially from illegals, and can influence the political process? IMO it's the employers. G'morning, John - No argument there...if the employers would quit hiring illegals, then some of the immigration problem would go away.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #152 July 15, 2005 Jen, I would take 10s of thousands over 10s of millions any day!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #153 July 15, 2005 John, please explain what you mean by "border controls" in your last post. Do you mean technology or troops... just curious? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #154 July 15, 2005 QuoteJohn, please explain what you mean by "border controls" in your last post. Do you mean technology or troops... just curious? Whatever it takes would still cost far less than invading Iraq. It's a sad country that can't police its own borders.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattsplat 0 #155 July 15, 2005 I am deffenetly For shutting down the borders and helping our own for a change. But as for shit hole I got to say the Mexicans are doing a preaty good job cleaning up there area over here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #156 July 15, 2005 http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-06-30voa100.cfm It's not only mexicans people..... 85,000 OTM's (other than mexicans) this year so far put that together with (american armageden) get the picture???? sometime's i think the only way some people will get upset about the border issues is if mexicans show up with tandom ratings and start doing them for $15 g Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #157 July 15, 2005 Whats more of a drain with our prison is the non violent criminals locked up. Over 1/2 of the 2.1M population locked up is for non violent crimes. Lets tackle that first before talking about illegals. The studies I've seen show 25% of illegals make up the population. Show me the university studies done. I put up some numbers from very credible sources. QuoteAnd no, the economy does NOT need the illegal workers. Look at the research studies done by universities. Then why do industries hire them? If they are not needed why does the agricultre sector hire such a huge amount of illegals. If our economy did not need them then there would be no work for them. Simple supply and demand. There is a demand for cheap unskilled labor and they supply it. QuoteSo what do these people bring to the economy? 7% of Cali's GDP comes from illegal labor. Back when the study was done it was 63 billion dollars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #158 July 15, 2005 QuoteWhats more of a drain with our prison is the non violent criminals locked up. Over 1/2 of the 2.1M population locked up is for non violent crimes. Lets tackle that first before talking about illegals. The studies I've seen show 25% of illegals make up the population. Show me the university studies done. I put up some numbers from very credible sources. QuoteAnd no, the economy does NOT need the illegal workers. Look at the research studies done by universities. Then why do industries hire them? If they are not needed why does the agricultre sector hire such a huge amount of illegals. If our economy did not need them then there would be no work for them. Simple supply and demand. There is a demand for cheap unskilled labor and they supply it. QuoteSo what do these people bring to the economy? 7% of Cali's GDP comes from illegal labor. Back when the study was done it was 63 billion dollars. What I said was that we don't NEED them. Industries hire them because they are cheaper. Not because they NEED them. You could do the work, you'd just cost more. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #159 July 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteJohn, please explain what you mean by "border controls" in your last post. Do you mean technology or troops... just curious? Whatever it takes would still cost far less than invading Iraq. It's a sad country that can't police its own borders. Hmmm.... You still didn't answer the question, but some how brought Iraq into it. I'll try again. What did you mean by "Border Controls"? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #160 July 15, 2005 QuoteWhats more of a drain with our prison is the non violent criminals locked up. I'd rather stay on topic than have this turn into a pothead diatribe. But, threads drift. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #161 July 15, 2005 QuoteIt's a sad country that can't police its own borders. Let me correct you. Nothing is SAD about this country. It is a sad administration that can't police it's own borders. Really sad for those that voted for the administration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #162 July 15, 2005 QuoteWhat I said was that we don't NEED them. Industries hire them because they are cheaper. Not because they NEED them. You could do the work, you'd just cost more. And demand those little things like safety equipment breaks clean restrooms lunch facilities a sink to wash your hands overtime While most Mexicans do currently work in agriculture INITIALLY, many migrate to other industries. As more manufacturers learn that they can pocket a bit extra $$ or charge a little less (and thereby gain market share and still pocket more $$) they also move to immigrant labor. Treaties that encourage unfair trade (like NAFTA) tend to force US employers to try to cut labor costs as well. I just returned from a client that told me that he just had to fire one of 'his' Mexicans because they had gotten "too American" and wouldn't work hard enough and wanted more money. It is not a simple problem but it IS a problem.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #163 July 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat I said was that we don't NEED them. Industries hire them because they are cheaper. Not because they NEED them. You could do the work, you'd just cost more. And demand those little things like safety equipment breaks clean restrooms lunch facilities a sink to wash your hands overtime While most Mexicans do currently work in agriculture INITIALLY, many migrate to other industries. As more manufacturers learn that they can pocket a bit extra $$ or charge a little less (and thereby gain market share and still pocket more $$) they also move to immigrant labor. Treaties that encourage unfair trade (like NAFTA) tend to force US employers to try to cut labor costs as well. I just returned from a client that told me that he just had to fire one of 'his' Mexicans because they had gotten "too American" and wouldn't work hard enough and wanted more money. It is not a simple problem but it IS a problem. __________________________________ I think, you just nailed the 'problem' and that's why our borders will remain open. It's all about the money. The fat get fatter and we'll be speakin' Spanish. Why, should big business pay a guy $17.00 (or more)an hour to make Explorers when he has a source of labor that will work for half that? It's the American way! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #164 July 15, 2005 Quoteno surprise, there. uhh, yeah, deep down i know that you're right and that's why i tire of this discussion. "Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #165 July 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt's a sad country that can't police its own borders. Let me correct you. Nothing is SAD about this country. It is a sad administration that can't police it's own borders. Really sad for those that voted for the administration. OK, I'll go with that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #166 July 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt's a sad country that can't police its own borders. Let me correct you. Nothing is SAD about this country. It is a sad administration that can't police it's own borders. Really sad for those that voted for the administration. OK, I'll go with that. ____________________________________ I've been following this thread and about all I can come up with is the 'source of cheep labor' aspect, as the reason for 'allowing' the mass migration of illegals from Mexico. In the late 50's and early 60's, big corporations started moving to the Southern 'Right to Work' states, to avoid the high wages of the labor unions. One of the first, was the Daisy BB Gun,Co.. They moved from Plymouth, Michigan to Rogers, Arkansas. The Auto industry then, started building assembly plants in the South. Wages in these plants increased because the Northern plants were still paying higher wages. Recently, I read where wages are going down in the plants and the hiring of illegals has increased. Make sense? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #167 July 17, 2005 Ok if the us gov't came up with a national Id card, you lefties would have a fit. no id card, no work, no DL, no free health care, no bank account, nada. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aureua 0 #168 July 17, 2005 QuoteQuote Our economy is #1 because we have moved forward into more knowledge based work, and industrial based work for the previous 100 years. The US didn't get to where it is by using 1000 of educated workers to do a task... Actually that is exactly how the US's industrial growth took place. Factories used to employ women and children because they could pay them less. And if education was a requirement for today's manual laborers you can bet more people than just the illegal immigrants would be out of work. Quote ...that someone could figure out how to do better, faster, and cheaper with new equipment & technology. Those innovations are mainly coming from overseas. Regardless, as new equipment and technology shifts towards automation the number of "industrial based" jobs for "uneducated workers" is dwindling and many people are finding themselves jobless irrespective of their nationality status. The US's industries have grown because they have hired cheap labor since the beginning and over time have developed technologies resulting in dispensable jobs. Don't blame illegal immigrants because big industries are doing what they've always done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #169 July 17, 2005 Here's an interesting new development: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3269245 July 16, 2005, 10:28PM Idaho county suing to curb cost of illegal immigration Lawsuit claims businesses hiring such workers are hurting taxpayers By REBECCA BOONE Associated Press BOISE, IDAHO - Faced with the costs of coping with illegal immigrants, one county is looking to the courts for help — by filing a racketeering lawsuit against the businesses that hire such workers. ADVERTISEMENT The legal theory: a pattern of immigration violations is costing Canyon County millions for law enforcement, education and social services. "Their presence lowers the labor wage for American citizens and removes employment opportunities," said county Commissioner Robert Vasquez, an ambitious politician who just started a bid for Congress, in reference to illegal workers. The county's attempt to recoup its expenses would be filed under the federal Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, commonly called the RICO Act, which has been used against targets ranging from organized crime to Internet spammers. It would be the first time that a government has sued a business under RICO, enacted in 1970, legal experts say. The county signed a contract Tuesday with a RICO specialist, Chicago attorney Howard Foster, and Vasquez said the lawsuit is expected to be filed soon. [/hr] Walt Vasquez has tried to bill the Mexican government for the cost of dealing with illegal immigrants from that country, and he tried unsuccessfully to have Canyon County declared a disaster area for what he claims is an impending "invasion" of illegal immigrants. On the surface, Canyon County seems to have a solid case, said G. Robert Blakey, one of the authors of the RICO Act and a law professor at the University of Notre Dame. "If people are knowingly bringing in and exploiting undocumented immigrants, they are creating a federal crime," Blakey said. "What this suit raises is just whether the government units — federal, state and local — can sue for the damages they suffer." Blakey noted, however, that some federal courts have already ruled that governments can't try to recover the cost of being a government. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #170 July 17, 2005 QuoteOk if the us gov't came up with a national Id card, you lefties would have a fit. no id card, no work, no DL, no free health care, no bank account, nada. In your dreams. I have no problem with an ID card for those reasons. I have a job, health care, a bank account, etc and would continue to do so. I DO have a problem with every step the government takes that brings us closer to "1984".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #171 July 17, 2005 Is this something we have to look forward to? In Hamilton, Ohio, recently. A 9-yr. old white girl says she was raped by an hispanic male. Since then, 'Rapist' has been painted on the house, where the accused man lived. A house, next to an hispanic church was burned down and the Ku Klux Klan has gotten involved. The population of hispanics is approx. 61,000 in that small Ohio river town. A large portion of who are illegal. This was in this morning's newspaper. Are we going to start seeing what we saw in the 60's in Watts, Detroit, Birmingham and other cities? How far, will it go? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #172 July 17, 2005 QuoteIs this something we have to look forward to? In Hamilton, Ohio, recently. A 9-yr. old white girl says she was raped by an hispanic male. Since then, 'Rapist' has been painted on the house, where the accused man lived. A house, next to an hispanic church was burned down and the Ku Klux Klan has gotten involved. The population of hispanics is approx. 61,000 in that small Ohio river town. A large portion of who are illegal. This was in this morning's newspaper. Are we going to start seeing what we saw in the 60's in Watts, Detroit, Birmingham and other cities? How far, will it go? Chuck Uh..I think the politically correct word for the KKK is "Southern Insurgents." They are in fact simply trying to repel foreign invaders from their land. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #173 July 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteIs this something we have to look forward to? In Hamilton, Ohio, recently. A 9-yr. old white girl says she was raped by an hispanic male. Since then, 'Rapist' has been painted on the house, where the accused man lived. A house, next to an hispanic church was burned down and the Ku Klux Klan has gotten involved. The population of hispanics is approx. 61,000 in that small Ohio river town. A large portion of who are illegal. This was in this morning's newspaper. Are we going to start seeing what we saw in the 60's in Watts, Detroit, Birmingham and other cities? How far, will it go? Chuck Uh..I think the politically correct word for the KKK is "Southern Insurgents." They are in fact simply trying to repel foreign invaders from their land. _________________________________ The KKK, has a not so 'glorious' history. I just don't care for their violent response to some situations. I think, what is being said in the news story is, we have a problem in this country and it's to the point where it has gotten the interest of the Klan. The illegals, I don't believe, had a different idea of things in this country when they sneaked across the border. I don't think they planned on what they are getting. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #174 July 17, 2005 QuoteThe KKK, has a not so 'glorious' history. I just don't care for their violent response to some situations. It's kind of ironic that these days when the KKK has a march, the counter-demonstrators seem to be a lot more prone to violence. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #175 July 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe KKK, has a not so 'glorious' history. I just don't care for their violent response to some situations. It's kind of ironic that these days when the KKK has a march, the counter-demonstrators seem to be a lot more prone to violence. Walt ____________________________________ Go figure!? Come to think of it, I have noticed that! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
