10 million Mexicans

[Gravitymaster 0]

Can you provide a source to back up your claim that illegal immigrants are used by the military to fight wars?

[Enrique 0]

Quote

Quote

Actually I spent my honeymoon in Playa Del Carmen and Cancun, have been to TJ, and a couple other border towns. Outside the resort areas its not much to speak of. Even our run down neighborhoods in DC look much better than the average town in Mexico. Don't blame me. I didn't make it that way. It is merely a factual observation.

It's nice to know that you took your wife to a shit hole on your honeymoon. Sounds romantic.

Listen, I understand and could even agree with you if what you are trying to say in your very limited vocabulary, that Mexico does not have the infrastructure that your Country does. True for the most part. But that doesn't mean that you can bash a great Country such as Mexico. It is a Country with tremendous amounts of culture, biodiversity and, most importantly, VALUES!

You never know, maybe you might learn something from a Mexican someday.

• Quote

[Enrique 0]

Quote

Can you provide a source to back up your claim that illegal immigrants are used by the military to fight wars?

I will do my best, but I am pretty sure that such records are not available to the public. It is common knowledge though.

A friend of mine works at a medical facility where they do the preliminary medical exams to all that enroll in the Marines... he told me that story. He said that around 85% of Mexicans that enroll are illegal immigrants with no social security number.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Can you provide a source to back up your claim that illegal immigrants are used by the military to fight wars?

I will do my best, but I am pretty sure that such records are not available to the public. It is common knowledge though.

A friend of mine works at a medical facility where they do the preliminary medical exams to all that enroll in the Marines... he told me that story. He said that around 85% of Mexicans that enroll are illegal immigrants with no social security number.

Is her anecdotal evidence what you are basing your statement on or do you have something more substancial? U.S. law does not allow an illegal to join the military. They must at least have a Green Card and be a permanent resident. I'm surprised I've never heard your claim before.

[Enrique 0]

Merely anecdotal.

US law doesn't allow many things, but they still happen.

[masterrig 1]

Is her anecdotal evidence what you are basing your statement on or do you have something more substancial? U.S. law does not allow an illegal to join the military. They must at least have a Green Card and be a permanent resident. I'm surprised I've never heard your claim before.

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Merely anecdotal.

US law doesn't allow many things, but they still happen.

_____________________________

Quite true. I feel quite certain we are not the only nation that does that. There are a lot of things we are not aware of that happen in our government. The 'right to know' law isn't wholly honest either. Hey, it's government!


Chuck

[madscape 0]

You have to be a LEGAL immigrant (w/green card, or pursuing one) to enlist in the Armed Forces (Non-Citizens cannot be Officers). Illegal immigrants are not allowed. Why, You ask? because they're illegal...

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Merely anecdotal.

US law doesn't allow many things, but they still happen.

_____________________________

Quite true. I feel quite certain we are not the only nation that does that. There are a lot of things we are not aware of that happen in our government. The 'right to know' law isn't wholly honest either. Hey, it's government!


Chuck

You think you heard it on the news and Enrique was told by someone. Sorry guys, but if it's true, it's going to take more than that to convince me. To say that the govt. engages in other illegal activity, therefore they do this too is kind of a stretch. I'm not saying it's not true, but ...... come on, now.

[wmw999 2,149]

Quote

We have the same view that all of the great empires of the world have fallen. What will be the downfall of the US? Possibly uncontrolled illegal immigration?

Hubris.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[gkc1436 3]

>>From what I'm told, the vast majority of tourists travelling to Mexico (the "Shit Hole" as you like to refer to it) are, in fact, from the U.S.of A.

From what I know, most of the people living in Baja California's beach front properties are retired U.S. citizens that live there illegaly: invading our coast line! Mexicans don't go around shooting "illegal immigrants".

What about all the military personnel that goes to Mexico to get drunk, litter, BREAK THE LAW (because Mexico has laws too, believe it or not), and basically do everything they are not allowed to do in their FREE country?
_____________________________________________
come on now....we all know that after you take your wife to a shithole that everything after that looks good, therefore good move....

maybe tree took his wife there for free medical, you know the game. if you go to the hospital they have to treat you reguardless of citizenship or ability to pay.

free education, the schools dont have to ask for citizenship, they just give your kid a seat and a special tutor to teach you the language, all at the mexican taxpayers expense.

but i know tree, he took his wife to a shithole because he can vote in elections there.
they dont check for citizenship at the polls

maybe he took her there to give birth....you know the game, drop one in the fields and whala.....a brand new citizen!!! now they wont throw him out because you know....why punish the child by deporting his illegal parents.

no wait ....i know, he took his entire family there in a van and sped around dodging the federalies and killing people in the crosswalks doing 90 threw the intersection.

wait.......reverse that....

[Enrique 0]

You would be amazed about the things you ignore about your Country's government and the things your fellow nationals do abroad. The fact that you close your eyes or turn away does not mean it doesn't exist.

It is very honorable, though, that you have blind faith on your system and governmental bodies (including your President).

However, the rest of the world's perspective is different. Your news reports are slightly different from the news you see on European TV, for example. They do show the dismembered children after a bombing by the "allied forces". They do show the women and the elderly being killed. THOSE ARE VIOLATIONS TO THE LAWS OF WAR... and they are commited by your Country.

Simply think about the concept of "freedom" that you claim as the main characteristic of your Country. You claim to be a "free" country, yet you have created some much hatred around the world that you now have to be looking over your shoulder EVERY SINGLE DAY. That, my friend, is not freedom.

You are a free Country, but you are prohibited from visiting Cuba. That is not freedom. (I am sure you are not going to believe this, but what the hell: many many many tourists in Cuba are, you guessed it, from the USA... to get into Cuba thay ask that their passport is NOT stamped by the immigration officers and they have to fly out of Mexico to get to the island).

You are a free Country but it is unthinkable to say the word "black" in public ... even if you are refering to the color of your vehicle, because there could be someone with darker skin around you and he might feel offended and bring the house down on you. Even a Mexican cartoon character is subject to scrutiny by the White House!!! You never hear our government officials complaining about Speedy Gonzalez!

You claim to be free, but there cannot be a cross on top of a mountain because it depicts a specific religion and it offends a few people.

What do you REALLY stand for? What are you REALLY fighting for? Whose wars are you fighting? Look at your war veterans living on the street... is that really worst than true poverty?

It was a nice exchanging points of view with you guys, but this is taking us nowhere...

Blue skies

[masterrig 1]

Quote

You would be amazed about the things you ignore about your Country's government and the things your fellow nationals do abroad. The fact that you close your eyes or turn away does not mean it doesn't exist.

It is very honorable, though, that you have blind faith on your system and governmental bodies (including your President).

However, the rest of the world's perspective is different. Your news reports are slightly different from the news you see on European TV, for example. They do show the dismembered children after a bombing by the "allied forces". They do show the women and the elderly being killed. THOSE ARE VIOLATIONS TO THE LAWS OF WAR... and they are commited by your Country.

Simply think about the concept of "freedom" that you claim as the main characteristic of your Country. You claim to be a "free" country, yet you have created some much hatred around the world that you now have to be looking over your shoulder EVERY SINGLE DAY. That, my friend, is not freedom.

You are a free Country, but you are prohibited from visiting Cuba. That is not freedom. (I am sure you are not going to believe this, but what the hell: many many many tourists in Cuba are, you guessed it, from the USA... to get into Cuba thay ask that their passport is NOT stamped by the immigration officers and they have to fly out of Mexico to get to the island).

You are a free Country but it is unthinkable to say the word "black" in public ... even if you are refering to the color of your vehicle, because there could be someone with darker skin around you and he might feel offended and bring the house down on you. Even a Mexican cartoon character is subject to scrutiny by the White House!!! You never hear our government officials complaining about Speedy Gonzalez!

You claim to be free, but there cannot be a cross on top of a mountain because it depicts a specific religion and it offends a few people.

What do you REALLY stand for? What are you REALLY fighting for? Whose wars are you fighting? Look at your war veterans living on the street... is that really worst than true poverty?

It was a nice exchanging points of view with you guys, but this is taking us nowhere...

Blue skies

__________________________________

There's a lot of truth in what you say and you are correct... this is going no where.


Chuck

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

You would be amazed about the things you ignore about your Country's government and the things your fellow nationals do abroad. The fact that you close your eyes or turn away does not mean it doesn't exist.

It is very honorable, though, that you have blind faith on your system and governmental bodies (including your President).

Can you provide us with evidence of these crimes, or is this just more "someone told me so"? I also doubt anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes on this forum would conclude that we have blind faith in our govt.

Quote

However, the rest of the world's perspective is different. Your news reports are slightly different from the news you see on European TV, for example. They do show the dismembered children after a bombing by the "allied forces". They do show the women and the elderly being killed. THOSE ARE VIOLATIONS TO THE LAWS OF WAR... and they are commited by your Country.

Our news reports show pictures of the results of homocide bombers in addition to pictures of those killed unfortunately as collateral damage. The difference is our troops don't intentionally target civilians like the enemy does.

Quote

Simply think about the concept of "freedom" that you claim as the main characteristic of your Country. You claim to be a "free" country, yet you have created some much hatred around the world that you now have to be looking over your shoulder EVERY SINGLE DAY. That, my friend, is not freedom.

I don't know if you have ever spent any time within the US, but I don't think many here are walking around looking over our shoulders. Perhap you got the idea we were from the TV reports you find to be so accurate.

Quote

You are a free Country, but you are prohibited from visiting Cuba. That is not freedom. (I am sure you are not going to believe this, but what the hell: many many many tourists in Cuba are, you guessed it, from the USA... to get into Cuba thay ask that their passport is NOT stamped by the immigration officers and they have to fly out of Mexico to get to the island).

So? You mean the fact that we have a trade embargo with Cuba translates into us not being free? Quite a stretch.

Quote

You are a free Country but it is unthinkable to say the word "black" in public ... even if you are refering to the color of your vehicle, because there could be someone with darker skin around you and he might feel offended and bring the house down on you. Even a Mexican cartoon character is subject to scrutiny by the White House!!! You never hear our government officials complaining about Speedy Gonzalez!

So now you think we can't say "Black" in public. Sorry dude, I'm beginning to chuckle at how misinformed you are. Did you learn this on non-American TV, too?

Quote

You claim to be free, but there cannot be a cross on top of a mountain because it depicts a specific religion and it offends a few people.

Sure we can. It just can't be on public property because of a (admittedly warped) sense among some, that our Constitution disallows displays on govt. property. People are free to display their religion on private property.

Quote

What do you REALLY stand for? What are you REALLY fighting for? Whose wars are you fighting? Look at your war veterans living on the street... is that really worst than true poverty?

Did you know many homeless people in the US are on the streets because they want to be there? I know this is hard to believe because the cherished news sources you have say different. Did you also know the US has the richest poor people in the world?

Quote

It was a nice exchanging points of view with you guys, but this is taking us nowhere...

Agreed. I do think you should find out for yourself insteard of blindly believing what you see on TV and hear on the radio. Have you ever spent any time in the US? My guess is you haven't.

[wmw999 2,149]

Quote

I do think you should find out for yourself insteard of blindly believing what you see on TV and hear on the radio. Have you ever spent any time in the US? My guess is you haven't.

I think an awful lot of people (including some SC types) do an awful lot of characterizing of countries they've never been to, or spent little time in. How else can they say some of the one-sided things that they say?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[alison 0]

Quote

You are a free Country, but you are prohibited from visiting Cuba. That is not freedom.

That is a great example, and one that I always use when people ramble on about "freedom" in the US. I am a US citizen (although I have also spent time living in Mexico) and I would love to visit Cuba. And frankly it really bugs me that I can't (legally) go there. That is a blatant non-freedom.

I can understand and sympathize with many of your points about how US citizens (I'll call us "estadounidenses" because I don't call myself American either, for the reasons you mentioned) treat Mexico when they visit. I personally hate when people see poverty and assume "shit hole." These people have obviously not taken the opportunity to look beyond their first impressions. A country is about people, culture, and tradition. Mexico is very rich is these aspects.

[billvon 2,435]

>that is, until an illegal offers to do your job for lets say 50% of what
>it costs your employer to maintain your standard of living.

You have an alternative. Get rid of all illegal labor somehow. Your cost of living will go up by 50% (or by some other percentage) as employers have to triple what they pay field workers. And you'll be making the same salary.

A great many people are all for complete elimination of undocumented workers until they realize how much it will cost them.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

I do think you should find out for yourself insteard of blindly believing what you see on TV and hear on the radio. Have you ever spent any time in the US? My guess is you haven't.

I think an awful lot of people (including some SC types) do an awful lot of characterizing of countries they've never been to, or spent little time in. How else can they say some of the one-sided things that they say?

Wendy W.

You mean like those who claim to know whats happening in Iraq even though they've never been there and then ignore the reports from those who have?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>that is, until an illegal offers to do your job for lets say 50% of what
>it costs your employer to maintain your standard of living.

You have an alternative. Get rid of all illegal labor somehow. Your cost of living will go up by 50% (or by some other percentage) as employers have to triple what they pay field workers. And you'll be making the same salary.

A great many people are all for complete elimination of undocumented workers until they realize how much it will cost them.

The key word here being "undocumented". I doubt if too many people are against those who are in the country legally.

[billvon 2,435]

>The key word here being "undocumented". I doubt if too many
>people are against those who are in the country legally.

I'd be all for getting rid of illegal immigrants (through better enforcement, beefing up border patrols etc) AS LONG AS there is a corresponding increase in the ability to cross legally. Just keeping people out isn't going to fly, if we want to keep farmers from getting hammered.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>The key word here being "undocumented". I doubt if too many
>people are against those who are in the country legally.

I'd be all for getting rid of illegal immigrants (through better enforcement, beefing up border patrols etc) AS LONG AS there is a corresponding increase in the ability to cross legally. Just keeping people out isn't going to fly, if we want to keep farmers from getting hammered.

Agreed. However, once they are allowed in legally, they are going to want IRA's, Medical Insurance, retirement plans, and to get them they will have to Unionize, etc. Then we are right back where we are now.

[billvon 2,435]

>However, once they are allowed in legally, they are going to want
> IRA's, Medical Insurance, retirement plans, and to get them they
>will have to Unionize, etc.

You mean we'll have to treat them like people? Horrors! But I think we will survive.

(BTW, yes they will want all that stuff, but they will also be paying taxes. Two sides to every coin.)

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Quote

We have the same view that all of the great empires of the world have fallen. What will be the downfall of the US? Possibly uncontrolled illegal immigration?

Hubris.

Wendy W.

Either that or bleeding heart liberals.

Walt

[Lindsey 0]

It is a Country with tremendous amounts of culture, biodiversity and, most importantly, VALUES!

Yeah....but then its people come here, and next thing ya' know they're smoking crack just like the rest of us...

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[gkc1436 3]

>It is very honorable, though, that you have blind faith on your system and governmental bodies (including your President).

me? blind faith? .....never met me have you....
i reserve the right to question everything, including authority, gvt officials and pretty much anything else i take notice of.

>You are a free Country, but you are prohibited from visiting Cuba. That is not freedom. (I am sure you are not going to believe this, but what the hell: many many many tourists in Cuba are, you guessed it, from the USA... to get into Cuba thay ask that their passport is NOT stamped by the immigration officers and they have to fly out of Mexico to get to the island).

free??? no fu*kin way dude.....i can think of 2 parts of the constitution that are no longer in effect within the last say 2 weeks.
freedom of speach> reporter jailed for not writing anything
unwarrented search and seizure (spelling) as of today

>What do you REALLY stand for? What are you REALLY fighting for? Whose wars are you fighting? Look at your war veterans living on the street... is that really worst than true poverty?

again....dont know me do you....
i provided a friend in the reserves my personal sidearm due to the fact that he would not be provided one when he shipped out to afganistan,
not to fight a war, but to help a friend.
i personally dont care what people do as long as it has no effect on me.
want to worship a rock? who cares, as long as you keep it in your own back yard. and you dont tell me what my backyard is for.

so you would have no problem if i snuck into your country, leaving 50 miles of trash along the way, stole your cars to drive across your country to steal your services (healthcare/wellfare) enough that your citizens couldnt get the care they payed for. undercut your population by doing jobs for less than the going rate
vote in your elections to affect your future.
and then squeezed out a child and called him a citizen????
if you dont have a problem with that......
i would question your honesty and motives


g