gjhdiver 0 #76 April 19, 2005 QuoteCardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany elected Pope Becomes Benedict the XVI FYI Old white conservative guy elected pope ? Who could possibly have forseen that ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #77 April 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteIMHO Raztinger is a pretty bad choice to lead the church into the 21rst century. It should first try to get out of the 16th Century. The job of the pope isn't to lead his flock into the future. It's to drag it back into the middle ages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #78 April 19, 2005 QuoteFemales can be altar servers here in the US, but in many other countries they can't. The pope spoke out against it, but didn't make a formal decree on the subject, so churches were free to have them or not, even though the pope didn't want females on the altar. Ditto with eucharistic ministers. So some of the churches here in the United States are going against what the POPE had said? I guess it's okay to read between the lines and do it because it's not a formal decree. Gee....that's what I have never understood about the Catholic Church, it's okay to do some things, some times.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #79 April 19, 2005 Rats. I felt shure they would have voted for Margaret Thatcher Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #80 April 19, 2005 " I have it on authority of a Roman canonist who has been involved that even to this day, technically, female altar servers are not permitted by the Code of Canon Law. The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has clearly shown its preference for the traditional male altar servers and also made it clear that no priest can be required to have female altar servers. " -Ignatius Press The Holy See respects the decision adopted by certain Bishops for specific local reasons on the basis of the provisions of Canon 230 2. At the same time, however, the Holy See wishes to recall that it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar. As is well known, this has led to a reassuring development of priestly vocations. Thus the obligation to support such groups of altar boys will always continue. -Cardinal Antonio Maria Javierre Ortas, 1995 (Prefect , Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #81 April 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteRatzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, aka The Inquisition. Founded in 1542 by Pope Paul III, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was originally called the Sacred Congregation of the Universal Inquisition: the lovely people responsible for torturing and burning victims to death in the name of God. Great choice, guys! Wow, I thought this guy was in his 70s. But according to the Prof here he's over 450 years old and likely pushing a half Millenium - if that isn't qualification for head of a major religion (relative immortality) I don't know what is. Ain't my fault that the office responsible for the Inquisition still exists (under a new name assumed as recently as 1908) and that Joey the Rat was its head until today. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #82 April 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteRatzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, aka The Inquisition. Founded in 1542 by Pope Paul III, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was originally called the Sacred Congregation of the Universal Inquisition: the lovely people responsible for torturing and burning victims to death in the name of God. Great choice, guys! does anyone else notice a trend towards sensationalism in some of kallend's post? This is kind of like your other post where you try to paint all of "the right" with the same brush as that anti-abortion terrorist. Except in this case you had to reach back about 500 years. I actually agree with you sometimes, but would you mind keeping a sense of proportion & reality? You're coming across like a left-wing Anne Coulter. and as for Frenchy's comment about Catholic's believing that black people don't have a soul, well, I'll just let everyone decide for themselves if that isn't the same kinda trend. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. Ain't my fault that the office responsible for the Inquisition still exists (under a new name assumed as recently as 1908) and that Joey the Rat was its head until today. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me. The Inquisition (which no-one expects) became the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Ratzinger was its most recent head.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,179 #83 April 19, 2005 QuoteAllowing for more "global representation" is specious in the end and just PR nonsense, they should endeavor to get the best individual for the job based on leadership abilities alone. If one of the qualifications is the ability to rally masses of people from countries besides Italy, maybe the vision of a possibility of non-Italian viewpoints being accepted would be a qualification. After all -- anyone can say "I believe non-Italians can have an impact." But if you're Italian, it's a little less convincing. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #84 April 19, 2005 A very long read about the new Pope http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/041699a.htm"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #85 April 19, 2005 QuoteIf one of the qualifications is the ability to rally masses of people from countries besides Italy, maybe the vision of a possibility of non-Italian viewpoints being accepted would be a qualification.. If you have to appeal to a mass of people based on their misplaced nationalism, or their feelings of anti-nationalism (against Italians in this case), then it's a 'two wrongs make a right' kind of argument. Many will hide that behind a "pragmatist" argument. Most pragmatists don't believe that man can better than they currently are. I think that's sad. (another disclaimer - I have not a fraction of Italian blood either) Did you know that scholars once thought the world was flat and leeches were a good medical practice? I bet there are even some academic associations from that far back that exist today. But I wouldn't presume to pass judgement on current PhD types just based solely on that. That would be wrong. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #86 April 19, 2005 QuoteDid you know that scholars once thought the world was flat and leeches were a good medical practice? Leeches are still used in modern medicine...they're even approved by the FDA! http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-07-07-leeches-maggots_x.htm You may now return to your regularly scheduled Pope thread. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #87 April 20, 2005 It's not as much nationalism as it is understanding. For example, Catholics from south/central America tend to approach religion differently than someone from the northern US, Ireland, Poland or Germany. Each culture has its own spin on religion, and the more points of view the church gets, the more competent it will be to see to the spirituality of all its members. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #88 April 20, 2005 Oh, I believe you and what that church is saying about females. But, I even saw it on CNN, a nun serving communion. It's just normal for the church to say one thing, and do another, cause it fits at the time. Not enough Priest in an area, we'll get some one else to serve communion, but we won't put it in writing that it's okay to allow females at the altarMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #89 April 20, 2005 The court that ruled in Dredd Scott still exists. Do you think it (the court) should be abolished? The party responsible for nominating a KKK member (Hugo Black) to the supreme court still exists - should it be disbanded? There is a former KKK member serving in the Senate today. Should his votes be considered null and void? His seat vacated? After all, the above three happened far more recently than the Inquisition. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #90 April 20, 2005 QuoteAfter all, the above three happened far more recently than the Inquisition. Wrong. The Inquisition is not over; it continues to this day. They simply don't have the political power to torture that they once did. No one expects a German Inquisition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #91 April 20, 2005 ALRIGHT I'VE HEARD ENOUGH DISSENT FROM YOU HERETICS!! INTO THE COMFY CHAIR!!! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #92 April 20, 2005 QuoteGreat choice, guys! Ahh, c'mon. He's a former member of the Hitler youth. He can't be ALL bad! That, and he once called Rock music "the vehicle of anti-religion." He sounds like a wonderful chap. And he'd probably delegate most of that torture and murder anyway and only get involved with the "Grave sins" of abortion and euthenasia. I'm sure that his nicknames "God's Rottweiler" and "The Pope's Enforcer" were simply due to him running the Inquisition, nothing more. Ahh. Congratulations to all you happy Catholics. You must be SO proud!tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #93 April 20, 2005 Quote Do you think the church should adapt to society when it against the writtings of the Church? Ron, do you think that Mass should be still celebrated in Latin despite the fact that that language has not been spoken by any people for more than a thousand years? When the Catholic Church allowed all religious ceremonies to be celebrated in the current language it did nothing but adapt to current society, albeit somewhat late Even moral issues are not as immune from change as one may think. While it is true that taking someone's life is still agaisnt the basic principles of Christian morality, on the other hand the Catholic Church used to condemn the lending of money at an interest as immoral. As a result all financing used to be done by non Christian people, mostly the Jews. Ironically, asking for a loan was not considered immoral as long as the person lending the money was not Catholic! Otherwise one would have committed the sin of leading a fellow Christian into temptation. Nowadays the Catholic Church even has a bank of its own!! Religions and Churches do change, those that don't sooner or later become extinct. Cheers, Vale Edited for spelling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #94 April 20, 2005 QuoteYeah exactly, nothing like claiming to be moral and treating women like second class citizens all at the same time........... Nice, lots of noise, no content...Just like normal for you."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #95 April 20, 2005 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You would rather the Church try to be "popular" than moral? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. I don't want anyone telling me what is moral and what is not.Once again, i do not believe that claiming that blacks did not have a soul was morally right. But that's me. And if the church is for the people, it should be popular. Not elitist. Once again, the Catholic Church has changed its stance on certain matters many times before. The Church is supposed to teach the gospel, not be a "club". By bending to be "popular" they will destroy themselves. Religion is (Other than a crutch) a beacon for people to follow and try and be better people. If they become less of a guide, and more of an organization that just supports without morals... they become even more usless than it already is."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #96 April 20, 2005 QuoteThat isn't, his alleged membership to the Hitler Youth may raise some questions though. If you knew history, young men HAD to join. The Pope actually fled from the young Nazi's and risked being killed for his actions.. There you go again, talking before you know something."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #97 April 20, 2005 you forgot... 12 yr old boys for everyone!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #98 April 20, 2005 QuoteIf you knew history, young men HAD to join. Well, same was true for young white men joining the army in the days of apartheid, but it hasn't stopped people from attacking me in this forum. So the new Pope was a member of the Hitler youth, the Weermaght, and a deserter to boot, along with being a member of the inquisition. You can cut that any way you like, but those are the facts. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #99 April 20, 2005 QuoteRon, do you think that Mass should be still celebrated in Latin despite the fact that that language has not been spoken by any people for more than a thousand years? When the Catholic Church allowed all religious ceremonies to be celebrated in the current language it did nothing but adapt to current society, albeit somewhat late I don't care what language they use...I don't go to Church...But language does not effect the Moral message. QuoteEven moral issues are not as immune from change as one may think. While it is true that taking someone's life is still agaisnt the basic principles of Christian morality, on the other hand the Catholic Church used to condemn the lending of money at an interest as immoral. As a result all financing used to be done by non Christian people, mostly the Jews. Ironically, asking for a loan was not considered immoral as long as the person lending the money was not Catholic! Otherwise one would have committed the sin of leading a fellow Christian into temptation. Nowadays the Catholic Church even has a bank of its own!! Religions and Churches do change, those that don't sooner or later become extinct. True, but to adapt a religion to make peole happy is the sign of a weak religion. People should go to Church to aspire to be better people, not try to drag the Church down to the common moral level. If a Church allows itself to lower its morals to increase its coffers....Well its not a religion anymore."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #100 April 20, 2005 QuoteWell, same was true for young white men joining the army in the days of apartheid, but it hasn't stopped people from attacking me in this forum. Do you see ME attacking you for it? People who have small minds attack before they know the whole story....I don't know your case, but in the case of the Pope he tried to not join, didn't participate, and eventually fled risking death. Yep, its a fact he joined, deserted, was captured...ect. But I don't find fault in him for being made to join. I find great respect in the fact he was willing to risk death but leaving. BTW I am not Religious, and I think the Catholic Church is about as close to Anti-Christian as they come. But I find it funny that people with small minds will attack without knowing anything other than a small snipit of information."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
