rhino 0 #1 October 22, 2004 What would you consider to be the best sniper rifle? Other than the Barret 50 cal obviously. I have a 30-06 that I've placed tight groups with at 1500 yards... Most of the teams use 7.62 nato round... http://www.snipercountry.com/links.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,075 #2 October 22, 2004 4.2 mortar. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #3 October 22, 2004 Do you remember in Afghanistan the snipers that set a record of about 2800 yards taking out a guy. 50 cal. That is real sniping.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 October 22, 2004 The Remington 700 based .308 rifle is a favorite of mine. Classic beauty...although a .50 cal puts large holes in things.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #5 October 22, 2004 http://magazine.novaserve.ns.ca/article361.html It was Canadian soldiers that did it. Very impressive.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
InflightSupv 0 #6 October 22, 2004 QuoteWhat would you consider to be the best sniper rifle? Other than the Barret 50 cal obviously. I have a 30-06 that I've placed tight groups with at 1500 yards... Most of the teams use 7.62 nato round... http://www.snipercountry.com/links.htm Best all around out of the box rifle has to be the Remington 700 in 30.06. Most of the SWAT teams carry the Remington 700. It had a few problems with accidental misfirings a few years back, early 80's, but the modern version is great. Best all around round is the 30.06, although depending on all the variables, another caliber may be best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #7 October 22, 2004 Hey Rhino, That's a very broad spectrum, requiring a split into at least anti-personel and anti-material classes, which the Barret stradles somewhat uneasily, being too heavy for a true anti-personel rifle, and short of zoom as a true anti-material rifle. A further split in anti-personel weapons could be "Squad support" vs dedicated snipers rifles. Cost would also be a major issue, as most sniper weapons are bought on a Mil or Dept budget. My choice for anti material rifle here. My choice for Mil/Dept cost limit anti-personel rifle would be a Remington 700, probably in 7mm Rem Mag. No link here, these are all over the place and I trust anyone reading this thread is familiar with them. No cost limit anti-personel here. Squad support or general issue anti personel here, although in all fairness the Dragunov SVD should be mentioned as it was developed primarily for this role. These are opinions based on personal experience. I guess the best weapon for you will always be the one you have with you when you need to use it. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #8 October 22, 2004 Several people are of the opinion that the .338 Lapua Magnum is currently the best anti-personnel sniper caliber. (here and here). I have never shot the .338 myself, so I cannot comment any more than what I've read. The Sako TRG-42 and ERMA SR100 are said to have outstanding accuracy with this caliber, but with a weight of around 5.5kg I would expect the recoil would be very brisk. Sadly, I haven't heard any recent news about the Barrett M98 since the early version, but if Barrett do eventualy release a production version that is fine-tuned to optimize the best qualities of the caliber, then that rifle would be my choice. -No 'mericans were harmed during the making of this post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #9 October 22, 2004 QuoteWhat would you consider to be the best sniper rifle? Other than the Barret 50 cal obviously. I have a 30-06 that I've placed tight groups with at 1500 yards... Most of the teams use 7.62 nato round... http://www.snipercountry.com/links.htm Since the mission of a sniper is surgical shot placement at extended distances, typically >600 metres, the ideal sniper rifle is one that is supremely accurate and uses a cartridge that is lethal at the intended range. Once those criteria are met, the "best" becomes, to a large extent, a matter of opinion. The 7.62x51mm (.308 Win.) cartridge is one of the most successful benchrest cartridges in existence. It has the advantage of placing a large percentage of the powder charge in the flash pattern of the primer, and thus has very uniform ignition characteristics. Absolutely brilliant bullets are available from a variety of manufacturers of .308" diameter, many of which are tailored specifically for <1/4 moa shooting in the .308. The .50 BMG is kinda nice for very long range shooting. Where the .308 is nicely suited to ranges up to 1,000 metres or so, the .50 BMG really comes into its own at that range. A good .50 BMG rifle with match ammo is capable of <1/4 moa any day of the week. My .308 Benchrest rifle is a Model 40X from the Remington Custom Shop. In an "Egg Match," shooting grade-A large eggs at 300 metres until only one shooter hasn't missed, the 40X in caliber .308 Winchester typically takes the top 2 or 3 places. My .50 BMG is an LAR Grizzly Big Boar with the match chamber and big muzzle brake. It's about as accurate as the 40X, but tends to kick the snot out of scopes (they get bent) so I keep the expensive ones off it. When shooting at extended ranges, I really don't need a fast follow-up shot. The .338 Lapua seems like the best of both worlds; not as ponderous as the .50 BMG, yet it carries a hell of a lot more retained energy than the .308 if you really want to reach out and touch someone. The fact that it's proprietary limits its utility to some extent, but a sniper rifle is a specialized tool so that argument is moot. It must be noted that the 7.62x53Rmm Russian round in either the Mosin-Nagant or SVO sniper rifles has been supremely successful, so it is more a matter of who is doing the shooting than what is being shot, once the requisite level of accuracy and reliability is met. We Americans tend to be equipment freaks, but the truth is that the point of diminishing returns was hit rather early. Given Billy Dixon's offhand shot with open sights, dropping a Comanche warrior at 1,538 yards with a 50/70 Sharps, the technology necessary to make a successful long range shot by a skilled marksman has been available since before the advent of smokeless powder. Sometimes skill and training make up for a lot of gee-whiz technology. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #10 October 22, 2004 QuoteSometimes skill and training make up for a lot of gee-whiz technology. And sometimes dumb luck out weighs all three of those.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #11 October 22, 2004 QuoteQuoteSometimes skill and training make up for a lot of gee-whiz technology. And sometimes dumb luck out weighs all three of those. I'd rather be lucky than good.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,147 #12 October 22, 2004 QuoteIt was Canadian soldiers that did it. Very impressive. It was. What is very, very, very sad is that these snipers are being outcast by their fellow soldiers because they worked so close with Americans.....what a fucked up world we live in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #13 October 22, 2004 QuoteQuoteSometimes skill and training make up for a lot of gee-whiz technology. And sometimes dumb luck out weighs all three of those. In my line of work, doing a sniping mission for real, nothing is left to luck. I will take knowledge and skill over luck any day when my ass is on the line. Especially when it's my friends down on the objective along with the bad guys."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,149 #14 October 22, 2004 I'll admit that the only sniping I've done is verbal. But when it comes to driving, skydiving, motorcycling, or anything else dangerous that I do, skill I can plan for -- it hugely increases the chance that a. I'll recognize luck when it slaps me in the face b. I'll know what to do with it. c. I can make the best from bad luck too. So I'll take skill too. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #15 October 22, 2004 If I remember right, Carlos made his record shot with an M-2 (Browning .50 cal.) set up with a scope. His day to day rifle was a Wnchester model 70 in 30.06. His teammate carried an M-14 in, of course, .308. A lot of nice sniper rifles out there. Wish I had a little more room in the gun safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #16 October 22, 2004 QuoteIf I remember right, Carlos made his record shot with an M-2 (Browning .50 cal.) set up with a scope. His day to day rifle was a Wnchester model 70 in 30.06. His teammate carried an M-14 in, of course, .308. A lot of nice sniper rifles out there. Wish I had a little more room in the gun safe. It was a Ma Deuce using a Leupold with a custom mount. I didn't know the Gunny personally, but I visited him at his home once and we chatted for some hours. I've met very few professional killers who are as down-home, humble, and outgoing as the Gunny was...RIP, Carlos. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 94 #17 October 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt was Canadian soldiers that did it. Very impressive. It was. What is very, very, very sad is that these snipers are being outcast by their fellow soldiers because they worked so close with Americans.....what a fucked up world we live in. They are treated badly, even though it happened in Afghanistan? Goes to show that many peace-at-all-cost types would not have invaded Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban. Perhaps send a cruise missle or two, but not anything close to getting them out of power. I don't mean to hijack the thread.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #18 October 23, 2004 Actually.... the scope used by Carlos Hathcock was a 8XUnertl long tube scope, USMC. Not a Leupold. and I would probably choose a M40A1 (30 cal) due to it's multi position stock and then a unertl 10x scope or and Accuracy International L96A1 just my preference..... Edit to add: I wouldn't complain if someone wanted to give me one of George's rifles from GA precision ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #19 October 23, 2004 I am in awe you got to speak with him, how amazing that would be. Regarding the Canadians, I think the real sadness was publishing the names of the people involved during wartime. That used to be verboten. At least their American counterpart was named, and I think in one article they were as well. Atrocious.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #20 October 23, 2004 I wonder what the max effective range of a 30-06 is? 1,500 meters isn't much of a problem.. I wonder how much further it can reach effectively... ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #21 October 23, 2004 QuoteI wonder what the max effective range of a 30-06 is? 1,500 meters isn't much of a problem.. I wonder how much further it can reach effectively... My 30-06 with a Swarovski AV6-18x50P is perfect for flat area, not more than about 800 m. In do not trust in any longer distance to be really effective on first shot. In mountains, it's completely different, sure. Viewing is No. 4, I really do not know that word in your language. 2 horizontal, 1 vertical 'beam' below the others. You surely know what I mean. That's my perfect aiming and nearly always worked so perfect. But perhaps, you do not talk about deer hunting. That small fly shit spot in your eyes? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #22 October 24, 2004 QuoteActually.... the scope used by Carlos Hathcock was a 8XUnertl long tube scope, USMC. Not a Leupold. and I would probably choose a M40A1 (30 cal) due to it's multi position stock and then a unertl 10x scope or and Accuracy International L96A1 just my preference..... Edit to add: I wouldn't complain if someone wanted to give me one of George's rifles from GA precision ... Hmmm...that sounds correct- it's been a LONG time (>15 years!) since I talked w/ the Gunny about it. I think you are right. Don't know why I thought it was a Leupold. I probably confused some stuff that Hathcock told me with the actual stuff. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #23 October 24, 2004 For what area of responsibility? What terrain? Installation protection in a hostile area? Urban policing? Paired forward anti-personnel? It matters. Either way, effective range of a cartridge is hardly a consideration. The effective range of a marksman in the real world is considerably less than that of a .308. That's why snipers must be masters of their environment. Correct placement of the shooter must happen before placement of the shot can be considered. Any rifle for the .50 BMG is hardly a perfect sniper's rifle. It'll be a monster to move and is more muscle than you need on humans. I'd say the most versatile rifle is a Rem. 700 .308 or a Win. Model 70 chambered for the same. I would not say that either is the best choice for all occasions.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #24 October 24, 2004 ***"By the grace of God, it was a dud," Bill said. "It landed 15 metres from the B company [U.S. 101st Airborne Division] trenches. A guy got up, walked out of the trench and kicked the thing."*** I'd like to nominate this idiot for the Darwin awards! If I was in his unit I'd have kicked HIM black and blue!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #25 October 24, 2004 Quote For what area of responsibility? What terrain? Installation protection in a hostile area? Urban policing? Paired forward anti-personnel? It matters. I'm talking pure range and stopping power... Excluding the barrett 50 cal... The 7.62mm is simply a smaller 30-06 cartridge right? By smaller I mean shorter... Optimal shot I am looking for is between 1200-1700 yards. More on the longer end. 2000+ yards would be even better. I'm looking for extreme range... 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Guest #16 October 22, 2004 QuoteIf I remember right, Carlos made his record shot with an M-2 (Browning .50 cal.) set up with a scope. His day to day rifle was a Wnchester model 70 in 30.06. His teammate carried an M-14 in, of course, .308. A lot of nice sniper rifles out there. Wish I had a little more room in the gun safe. It was a Ma Deuce using a Leupold with a custom mount. I didn't know the Gunny personally, but I visited him at his home once and we chatted for some hours. I've met very few professional killers who are as down-home, humble, and outgoing as the Gunny was...RIP, Carlos. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #17 October 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt was Canadian soldiers that did it. Very impressive. It was. What is very, very, very sad is that these snipers are being outcast by their fellow soldiers because they worked so close with Americans.....what a fucked up world we live in. They are treated badly, even though it happened in Afghanistan? Goes to show that many peace-at-all-cost types would not have invaded Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban. Perhaps send a cruise missle or two, but not anything close to getting them out of power. I don't mean to hijack the thread.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #18 October 23, 2004 Actually.... the scope used by Carlos Hathcock was a 8XUnertl long tube scope, USMC. Not a Leupold. and I would probably choose a M40A1 (30 cal) due to it's multi position stock and then a unertl 10x scope or and Accuracy International L96A1 just my preference..... Edit to add: I wouldn't complain if someone wanted to give me one of George's rifles from GA precision ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #19 October 23, 2004 I am in awe you got to speak with him, how amazing that would be. Regarding the Canadians, I think the real sadness was publishing the names of the people involved during wartime. That used to be verboten. At least their American counterpart was named, and I think in one article they were as well. Atrocious.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #20 October 23, 2004 I wonder what the max effective range of a 30-06 is? 1,500 meters isn't much of a problem.. I wonder how much further it can reach effectively... ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #21 October 23, 2004 QuoteI wonder what the max effective range of a 30-06 is? 1,500 meters isn't much of a problem.. I wonder how much further it can reach effectively... My 30-06 with a Swarovski AV6-18x50P is perfect for flat area, not more than about 800 m. In do not trust in any longer distance to be really effective on first shot. In mountains, it's completely different, sure. Viewing is No. 4, I really do not know that word in your language. 2 horizontal, 1 vertical 'beam' below the others. You surely know what I mean. That's my perfect aiming and nearly always worked so perfect. But perhaps, you do not talk about deer hunting. That small fly shit spot in your eyes? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #22 October 24, 2004 QuoteActually.... the scope used by Carlos Hathcock was a 8XUnertl long tube scope, USMC. Not a Leupold. and I would probably choose a M40A1 (30 cal) due to it's multi position stock and then a unertl 10x scope or and Accuracy International L96A1 just my preference..... Edit to add: I wouldn't complain if someone wanted to give me one of George's rifles from GA precision ... Hmmm...that sounds correct- it's been a LONG time (>15 years!) since I talked w/ the Gunny about it. I think you are right. Don't know why I thought it was a Leupold. I probably confused some stuff that Hathcock told me with the actual stuff. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #23 October 24, 2004 For what area of responsibility? What terrain? Installation protection in a hostile area? Urban policing? Paired forward anti-personnel? It matters. Either way, effective range of a cartridge is hardly a consideration. The effective range of a marksman in the real world is considerably less than that of a .308. That's why snipers must be masters of their environment. Correct placement of the shooter must happen before placement of the shot can be considered. Any rifle for the .50 BMG is hardly a perfect sniper's rifle. It'll be a monster to move and is more muscle than you need on humans. I'd say the most versatile rifle is a Rem. 700 .308 or a Win. Model 70 chambered for the same. I would not say that either is the best choice for all occasions.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #24 October 24, 2004 ***"By the grace of God, it was a dud," Bill said. "It landed 15 metres from the B company [U.S. 101st Airborne Division] trenches. A guy got up, walked out of the trench and kicked the thing."*** I'd like to nominate this idiot for the Darwin awards! If I was in his unit I'd have kicked HIM black and blue!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #25 October 24, 2004 Quote For what area of responsibility? What terrain? Installation protection in a hostile area? Urban policing? Paired forward anti-personnel? It matters. I'm talking pure range and stopping power... Excluding the barrett 50 cal... The 7.62mm is simply a smaller 30-06 cartridge right? By smaller I mean shorter... Optimal shot I am looking for is between 1200-1700 yards. More on the longer end. 2000+ yards would be even better. I'm looking for extreme range... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
