An Email from a Captain in Iraq

[PhillyKev 0]

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I'm thankful that I have never had to fear our leaders.. regardless of what I thought of them personally or politically.

I felt that way too, until the patriot act.

[usedtajump 1]

I still don't see how skulking in and out of Bagdad under the cover of darkness to take pictures giving turkey legs to a bunch of REMFs is supposed to be all that impressive.

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[PhillyKev 0]

I respect that guy for going into an active combat zone. It's more than any pres has done in, how long? It at least shows he believes in what he's doing, no matter how distorted I think his beliefs are.

[billvon 2,400]

>I still don't see how skulking in and out of Bagdad under the cover of
> darkness to take pictures giving turkey legs to a bunch of REMFs is
> supposed to be all that impressive.

Not impressive, just nice to do for the people there. They are, after all, the ones getting maimed and killed; I am glad they both saw him supporting them and he got a chance to see firsthand the results of his policies.

Was it a publicity stunt? Of course. Did it do some good for the morale of the people over there? Most likely yes. And that's worth something.

[quade 3]

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I believe you would change your tune in a face to face with him.

I don't think you know me very well.

You are correct in one respect, I would call him "Mr. President" as required by protocol. On-line I refer to him as: This Administration, GW Bush, GWB and occasionally 43. I do not refer to him directly as a poser, but rather simply asked the question.

However, as to demeanor, I have no problem, whatsoever, with telling truth to power. It has gotten me into trouble more times than you can possibly imagine.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RevJim 0]

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>Is there ONE SINGLE (American) MODERATOR on this site that likes
>G.W. Bush?

Scott seems to like him - at least, he doesn't dislike him.

>You can put up with some of it some of the time, but the constant
>bashing by the select few gets tiring, very quickly.

Fortunately you can choose to not read the threads if you so choose, an option we don't really have.

Point taken, and very true Bill. I was going to say maybe Scott (LouDiamond) should post replies to the rest on occasion, but what would this site be like if the moderators were bickering among each other? Yea, pretty worthless.

It's too bad I'm against censorship, or I'd join the bandwagon against political, and yes, religous threads. I can't ask you or Quade to not post your beliefs either, as that would not be a fair trade.

The perfect solution is rec. style. A killfile for those threads. Oh, yea, we don't have that option, or ability......yet.

I enjoy reading all the forums, though there are only a select few I post to. I do learn alot from the others though. I read talkback for the same reason as everyone else (that is not required to, due to a certain green tint), and that is for its entertainment value.

This thread, by it's subject, was an enjoyable read for me. It's the replies that were not so enjoyable.

Why is it so easy for certain people, both green and black in color, to take a post down in value so quickly? All in all, it's just opinion. I have one, you have one, EVERYONE has one. It's just that, for the most part, a great deal of us keep that opinion to ourselves. A select few out there, once again both green and black in color, takes posts such as this to further their agenda. That agenda, it seems, is to point out as many flaws in a person, place, idea, ect, as they can find, in their opinion of course.

They get a kick out of it. It obviously makes them feel superior when so many reply to counter the position. This is great! They get to post more!

Well, enough rambling for me for a bit, my fingers are tired and I'm thirsty.

Just remember;
***Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. This fine, just step outside of the box on occasion and try to not be one.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[quade 3]

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Why is it so easy for certain people, both green and black in color, to take a post down in value so quickly? All in all, it's just opinion. I have one, you have one, EVERYONE has one. It's just that, for the most part, a great deal of us keep that opinion to ourselves. A select few out there, once again both green and black in color, takes posts such as this to further their agenda. That agenda, it seems, is to point out as many flaws in a person, place, idea, ect, as they can find, in their opinion of course.

So, if a person is suspicious of the information contained in the post they shouldn't question it? Go back and look at my first reply. That's all I did.

I have a real problem with people simply accepting some of the stories that get circulated as the truth without being at least a little bit skeptical of the information.

If everybody blindly accepted whatever was posted here we'd live in a much more dangrous world -- wouldn't we?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RevJim 0]

Whoa whoa whoa Q!

Simmah dahn nah!

I tried to keep that last post as generic as possible, since it's not just this thread, and it's not just you or bill. I have a great respect for what you and the other mods do for this site. It's just that on certain subjects, the replies from certain individuals seems to almost be scripted. You know who is going to reply, and what the replies will be while you are still reading the original posts!

Prove me wrong Quade. Point me to a post where you honestly praised GW. Seriously.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[usedtajump 1]

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I respect that guy for going into an active combat zone. It's more than any pres has done in, how long? It at least shows he believes in what he's doing, no matter how distorted I think his beliefs are.

OK, granted it was a nice gesture for the guys in the CZ, but politically I don't think very many were that impressed.

Of course had there been no invasion of Iraq in the first place and there shouldn't have been, there would have been no reason to have "turkey" in Bagdad.

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[quade 3]

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Prove me wrong Quade. Point me to a post where you honestly praised GW. Seriously.

I'll admit they are few and far between, but that's only because I do disagree with so much of the stuff that people support Predisent GW Bush on.

That said, a simple search came up with THIS THREAD in which I praised him for trying to dispell the myth that Iraq had something to do with the attacks of September 11th. I thought that was an honorable thing to do in light of so many of his subordinates that had tried to pump up the rhetoric. Generally speaking, a Press Secratary would have had to fall on his sword for something like this, but instead, GWB took the lead to attempt to dispell the myth.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RevJim 0]

Nice one Quade! I actually missed that one before. Probably because it's labeled as a political thread so it was easy to skip, unlike this one.

Wow, post one and 2 you and bill, but offering praise.

I noticed that's the only post you made in the thread, but you did make it, and speaks volumes for you integrity.

Thanks for the reply, Paul. I'm leaving the thread now, like I like to do will all political threads. Enjoy yourself, but try to not get this deleted, ok?

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[LouDiamond 1]

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Point taken, and very true Bill. I was going to say maybe Scott (LouDiamond) should post replies to the rest on occasion, but what would this site be like if the moderators were bickering among each other? Yea, pretty worthless

I only post to these types of threads every once in awhile for a reason. Arguing politics over the internet or any form of anti/pro Gov't/ Gun/ Abortion etc. is useless and a waste of time IMO. You are not going to change any ones point of view or opinion and it always ends up with school yard name calling and "he did this", "he did that". I whole heartedly support the President of the United States and have sworn to uphold and carry out the orders he issues...regardless of his political affiliation. With that said, I like some Presidents more than others and I guess you can figure out which ones I tend to like more than others. The other side of this coin that keeps me from getting too involved with some of these issues is I have access that the common man does not and know facts that most do not or will never know or have actively participated in related events. Besides, I have come to the conclusion after on occasion trying to convince some people that the Gov't isn't lying to them or that a certain event did happen is pointless since they are caught up in their rhetoric and refuse to listen to fact and some times first hand accounts. Hence, I peek at ,but refrain from getting involved because I tend to be polite to people to a point then I tell it to them bluntly in a military fashion and then they get bent out of shape and I become the bad guy. It's not worth my time or energy to argue since most read about it, I live it. The above e-mails authenticity is anyones guess but the facts therein are accurate. I am sure Quade, Bill and others will still disagree and think it's a plot by GWB or a publicity event. Either way , I don't care. I have skydived with both of them and we got along fine. I'm here to chew bubble gum and skydive and I'm all out of bubble gum.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[gmanpilot 0]

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Was it a publicity stunt? Of course. Did it do some good for the morale of the people over there? Most likely yes. And that's worth something.

That is EXACTLY the salient point. I could not give a flying fuck about the political motives of the strategists who orchestrated this gig.

I have friends who have died over there, and GW's actions and tears emoted his inner-most, heart felt thanks for the sacrifices they are making on a daily basis. That is huge for them.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[RevJim 0]

I understand Scott, which is why I added the bickering part. We all need to get along, and a big part of that is putting yourself in the other persons shoes for a bit, something that it seems fewer and fewer people are capable of doing.

Now, really, i'm off this thread asI said, but I do have one last political question, since that's what this thread turned into.....

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I have access that the common man does not and know facts that most do not or will never know

Sooooooo then, just who was it on the grassy knoll?

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[LouDiamond 1]

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Sooooooo then, just who was it on the grassy knoll?

Well, if I told ya, I'd have to kill you, cut off your head and put it in a safe

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[skreamer 1]

Have you ever noticed how Chuck stays completely out of these threads? Maybe not many people notice it, but it gives me more respect for the man.

I have been rather outspoken about my intense dislike and distrust for the current president of the USA, however I think I'll just have to do my best to avoid starting or getting involved in any political discussions at Eloy.

• Quote

[Shark 0]

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Have you ever noticed how Chuck stays completely out of these threads? Maybe not many people notice it, but it gives me more respect for the man.

I have been rather outspoken about my intense dislike and distrust for the current president of the USA, however I think I'll just have to do my best to avoid starting or getting involved in any political discussions at Eloy.

I concur. I have better things to do at the DZ than talk about politics, etc.
(Unless, of course, it turns on chicks.)

[newshooter12 0]

Respect for the office or not... the men and women over there deserve our whole hearted support because they are the ones risking it ALL.
I've only seen 1/100th the amount of planning and security it took to pull that off... no doubt. Whether GW was there of his own or his staff or whomever it was still the men and women present, as well as those represented, that were the guests of honor. GW's presence, I hope, Made them all proud.
matt

[GroundZero 0]

Paul,

When you respond like this...politically, you need to ask Sangiro to remove the "greenie" jacket. Even though this may be the talkback forum, you represent the forum in an official fashion...

This can have implications on revenue from advertisers. I think that this forum is primarily funded by advertising.

I do not agree with any posts made. I am a manufacturer that spends money here to advertise. Because I try to sell my products to everyone here, I refrain from responding in controversial topics... (I don't want to piss off anyone.)

I simply ask that you (and Sangiro) remove your "green" badge when you make comments that are not supporting your status as "moderator".


As an aside, I completely disagree with your thoughts on this topic.

Chris Martin
Precision Aerodynamics
[email protected]
423-949-4688

[sangiro 4]

Chris,

I think everyone on here knows that the political, sexual or religious views of moderators are their own, and not that of Dropzone.com.

These people are volunteers, I don't even necessarily endorse their views on skydiving, training, canopy down-sizing...

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[quatorze 1]

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Snopes says the events portrayed in the email are true (well maybe) but says nothing about the actual source of the email.

I think Snopes is maybe a little premature on this one.

My suspicions come from the fact that this is, "An Email from a Captain in Iraq". Not from any particular Captain that signed the email and could be tracked down to confirm or deny he wrote it but from a nameless "Captain".

This email now resides on several extreme right-wing web sites and the entire things just looks odd. Why isn't this signed?

I really could care less about the political beleifs of everyone on this board and I agree with the Rev about staying out, but this sticks in my craw about snopes, if memory serves, don't you normally use snope as a tool to debunk post throughout this forum, and now that it says something in support of the current administration and thusly deemed questionable? That just doesn't seem very unbiased to me

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[labrys 0]

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I still don't see how skulking in and out of Bagdad under the cover of darkness to take pictures giving turkey legs to a bunch of REMFs is supposed to be all that impressive.

I'm just flat amazed that nobody has challenged your assertion that the 1st AD, 2nd ACR, and 82nd Airborne soldiers in Bagdhad are REMFs. Amazed. Talk about lack of respect. Have you seen who's dying and where?

Owned by Remi #?

[Kramer 0]

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Sorry, he may have done some things worthwhile, but I have about as much respect for his Iraq visit as I do for his carrier landing. To my way of thinking, both were highly orchestrated stunts that actually took advantage of the troops rather than doing anything substantial.

Quade, although I disagree, I respect your opinion, and would hope you respect mine.

This question is nothing but curiosity-driven. I'm not trying to start anything up here.

If you have this big of a problem with Bush visiting troops in Iraq, how did Clinton make you feel when he cheated on his wife with someone his daughter's age in the oval office?

Just curious, that's all...

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[LoudDan 0]

I agree withcha girl... Everyone screams of the injustice imposed by evil George Bush, but no one seems to care about the mass graves, or the torture prissons, or gassings, ar all of the other human rights violations imposed on the Iraqi people by Saddams regime. Most of you bash him and say he wasted money by landing on the carrier (whatever), but Saddam should have been left alone, did you guys see his palace...he had a gold shitter, and his country lived in poverty.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[vonSanta 0]

Just a general comment, or question rather...

It seems to me that there's a LOT of dislike/disrespect with regards to whoever is currently the president - if it's a Republican he is "hated" by lots (most?) of the loyal democrats - if it's a democrat it's the same story, except now the republicans do the "hating".

A devaluation of the individual's skill as a politician, his intelligence, moral fibre and whatnot - based for the most part on his political stance rather than anything factual.

It's a bad thing IMHO, as it hinders objectivity and promotes lazyness. It essentially promotes ad hominem and appeal to authority logical errors. Now it's worth noting that an ad hominem isn't (as most think) a direct attack on the person instead of the argument - rather it is taking some fact related to the person making the argument that's irrelevant as far as the argument goes and use it to "prove" the argument as false. No good.

I'm a European liberal, which translated to the US system would make me a libertarian I gather (since we use an earlier definition of the word "liberal" in Europe). Even so, I respect the statemansship, know how and oratory skills of, say, our former social democratic prime minister.'

I hope I just get the wrong impression from American online forums. In the sense that it is much more polarized than what the "general population" is.

Oh: I dislike Bush's policies, but do find him to be one charming (if scary, due to his personal beliefs)bugger. He's really using the "hardworking, simple yet decisive blue jeans Texan" stereotype very well.

As an orator he is not very good though. I saw his recent speech in GB. While it may be OK to talk really slow to people in the US, I think that at least in Denmark we feel a bit patronized if that happens. Like being a kid while a parent tells something about the big world out there. "Get on with it dammit, I ain't a retard" sorta reaction. He lacks Tony Blair's ability to improvise and his vocabulary isn't too good. I think his ability to talk "off the transcript" on complicated matters is his worst PR flaw, so to speak. However, he comes off as "just another guy from the street" to a large degree which compensates very well for his other deficiencies.

Nope, I don't hate the guy even though I find myself disagreeing with his views more often than not. I reserve my hatred for pure bred DDR style socialists (just saw a documentary on DDR and the propaganda shite they had going, along with an old Marxist who got interviewed afterwards and was rationalizing everything). Oh and for the extreme right people; they can have a dose of my hatred too

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst