An Email from a Captain in Iraq

[tcnelson 1]

i agree, i'd much rather have a smooth-talking, liar who learned his politics in a hardback book than a genuine man who is doing the best job that can be done to protect us. you impress me.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[tcnelson 1]

you deserve as much respect as charlie manson.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Kramer 0]

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you deserve as much respect as charlie manson.

That comment was uncalled for. Even I disagree with Quade, and his views, but I respect him enough not to make comments like that.

Grow up a little bit.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[n2skdvn 0]

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you deserve as much respect as charlie manson.

My feelings are the same as kramer's. I also think you should read this it's the forum rules. In it there is one very important rule.

1) No personal attacks. None.

thats all i have to say.

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site

[sangiro 4]

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you deserve as much respect as charlie manson.

My feelings are the same as kramer's. I also think you should read this it's the forum rules. In it there is one very important rule.

1) No personal attacks. None.

thats all i have to say.

What he said.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[SkydiverRick 0]

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Geeeeez. Is there ONE SINGLE (American) MODERATOR on this site that likes G.W. Bush?

I mean, geez. You can put up with some of it some of the time, but the constant bashing by the select few gets tiring, very quickly.

The liberal rhetoric is so shrill it's comes across as very loud white noise to me.

never pull low......unless you are

[SkydiverRick 0]

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I'm thankful that I have never had to fear our leaders.. regardless of what I thought of them personally or politically.

I felt that way too, until the patriot act.

How has the patriot act affected your life?

never pull low......unless you are

[quade 3]

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. . . but this sticks in my craw about snopes, if memory serves, don't you normally use snope as a tool to debunk post throughout this forum, and now that it says something in support of the current administration and thusly deemed questionable?

Normally Snopes backs up its assertions of what is and is not believable. In this particular case, if you actually read what Snopes wrote, they agree that the basic events depicted in the email are true, but do not address whether the email itself is authentic. That is to say, actually came from one of the G.I.s that attended the event.

I don't doubt that some of the people that attended the event felt this way, I would like to know who actually wrote the email.

I do not think this is an unreasonable question to ask based on the "letters to the editors" fiasco I mentioned earlier.

I realize this point has been missed by a lot of folks who think I'm only out to bash GWB, but if you read my first responces to this thread, the question of who actually wrote the email is the issue here. I simply want to know the truth.

Do I think GWB himself wrote the email so as to "trick" the American public -- no, obviously not. Do I think GWB directed someone to write the email -- again, no. Do I think it's possible some over zealous staffer did it on his own accord -- well, I really don't know and there's no real way to find out, but based on history, it's certainly possible.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 3]

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If you have this big of a problem with Bush visiting troops in Iraq, how did Clinton make you feel when he cheated on his wife with someone his daughter's age in the oval office?

I wasn't particularly proud of the man if that's what you're asking, but more importantly, that part of the story, the part about him having an affair -- it's something between him, his mistress and his family. It was never -any- of our business.

If you want to talk about lying to Congress, well, we -could- bring that up. Yes, he told a lie to Congress. A lie about something that was none of their business. A lie about something that was private business between . . . him, his mistress and his family. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that if -most- people were asked about an affair and the person asking the question were not directly involved in it, in other words, not the mistress or one of the family members, they'd tell the other person to fuck off and die. Go ahead, the next time you think one of your business associates is screwing the receptionist, ask him about it in front of his wife and see what his responce is. Exactly what the hell did you -want- President Clinton to say at the time?

Now, let's take this lying to Congress a step further . . . let's talk about GWB and the speeches he gave to Congress.

Wanna comment about that?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'm thankful that I have never had to fear our leaders.. regardless of what I thought of them personally or politically.

I felt that way too, until the patriot act.

How has the patriot act affected your life?

Thats a question you are unlikely to get an answer to even though it's been asked many times on these forums.

I think it comes from spending too much time on ACLU or other left-wing agenda driven sites that present only one side in an attempt to frighten people.

I suggest those who are afraid of the Patriot Act educate themselves and quit worrying about "what if" senarios.

http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/index.html

[Kramer 0]

Our fundamental disagreement is the privacy issue. You say that Clinton's affiar was none of our business, but I happen to think that a public office position does make something as serious as an affiar our business.

If the President's wife can't even trust him, why should I? That's my whole theory on Clinton's issue. Sure, the affair in and of itself (such as the details...the cigar, etc), that was none of our business. But the fact that he had an affair, I deem that to be all of our business. We have the right to know what kind of person our President is to some degree.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[quade 3]

Public office? Any public office or just the POTUS? What about say, Under Secretary to the Interior or maybe Mayor of Orlando, Florida?

Mmmm . . . so, lemme see, he does nothing actually illegal in his private life but somehow you feel it's your right to know about it?

So, if, hypothetically, the President were into say, BDSM or sodomy with his wife (in fact, until recent sodomy was illegal in some states), you'd also feel you have the right to know about that?

Some people find these behaviors as morally irreprehensible as having an affair, should we satisfy their moral standing with a Congressional inquiry?

No. The Government has no freekin' business in -my- bedroom and in return, I have no freekin' business in the President's personal affairs.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kramer 0]

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No. The Government has no freekin' business in -my- bedroom and in return, I have no freekin' business in the President's personal affairs.

I can respect that opinion.

I just hope that you can say to yourself "if a Republican had been caught in office doing what Clinton did, I would be defending him just as feverishly as I am Clinton", and know that you're not lying to yourself.

If you really feel the way you feel, and it's not just a partisan issue, then I can respect/see where you're coming from.

For me, if a President is doing stuff like that, I want to know about it, if George Bush is cheating on his wife, I want to know about it...I wouldn't be so quick to vote for his re-election if I knew he lacked the integrity to stay faithful to his wife. That's just me....you have your opinion...we're two different people. That's life...I'm not going to try to force you to believe the things I believe, and I can tell you're not going to do the same in return. That's the beautiful part of this country, we can both think whatever the hell we want, and there's not a damn thing the other person can do about it.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[quade 3]

I can assure you I truly believe that what goes on between two consenting adults behind closed doors is truly their own business and not the business of anyone not directly involved.

For me, this is definately not a partisan issue at all.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[aprilcat 0]

Arrrrrrrg! I HAVE to respond to this post because I think it is VERY important that we forget about the politics and office and think of those involved. I KNOW it had to be a wonderful boost to those fighting. I support them wholeheartedly. BUT...what danger did he leave us civilians in? As a civilian, I was very concerned about how he left us more or less 'unsupervised' if that could be a proper term.

I love him for supporting the troops, but we are in really troubled times and the 'dad' of the house should mind it. Or maybe I just have 'separation' issues. (I'm listening to 'Let it be...naked...as if that matters) Peace and blue skies

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I can assure you I truly believe that what goes on between two consenting adults behind closed doors is truly their own business and not the business of anyone not directly involved.

For me, this is definately not a partisan issue at all.

***

Errr.......... Methinks you forget that Clinton was testifying in a civil case brought against him for Sexual Harassment.

You may also have forgotten the Judge in the case found him guilty of lying under oath and he was disbarred by the State of Arkansas. Hardly a simple case of bedroom privacy.

When you put your hand on the Bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you gotta do it. Not split hairs with the meaning of the word "is".

[Luv2Fall 0]

I'm not a mod....but for what it's worth.......Clinton's infidelity and lying about the same speaks volumes about his character, period.....our business or not...that's what you get.

I do not agree with everything that President Bush is doing. Having said that, I wish he had been my Commander-In-Chief instead of Clinton during my last years of being a soldier - the military was damn near "destroyed" in that funds were no longer available for the amount of training that we were once accustomed to. Let's not forget the downsizing of authorized personnel. When retiring, I felt for those who remained.....increased deployments, less people to accomplish the mission.

President Bush isn't an ear soothing orator "ms?" by any means.......although a much desired trait in politics, I don't think it to be absolutely necessary.

Would I have voted for a "better qualified" canditate for the Office of the Presidency? You bet..........but, given who was running at the time, I voted for him.

The Patriot Act has neither affected me nor anyone else I know.

EDITED TO ADD: Upon retirement from the Army, I received a certificate of some type (Retirement I guess) signed by Clinton - I tore it up. Although I liked his personality and charm, it was an insult.

[airdweller 0]

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, and there tends to be a little crap in all of them.

------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[flyhi 24]

I asked myself why I even open threads like this. Then I determined that although I would jump with everyone here, these threads help me decide with whom I would want to quaff a cold one afterwards. So far I bought beer for three moderators and I think I am pretty much at my limit.

I will be retiring from the military in the next five years. I will be very happy it says Bush on my certificate and not Clinton.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[skybytch 259]

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Is there ONE SINGLE (American) MODERATOR on this site that likes G.W. Bush?

I didn't vote for him. I don't agree with much of what he's done and is doing.

But I'm sure if I met him personally I'd like him just fine.

Why does it matter what moderators on a skydiving forum think about (non skydiving related) politics?

[gmanpilot 0]

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I don't doubt that some of the people that attended the event felt this way, I would like to know who actually wrote the email. I simply want to know the truth.

Damn, you sound like Tom Cruise interrogating Jack Nicholson. When you smell flowers, do you look around for a coffin?? BTW, nice hijack job on this thread.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[quade 3]

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BTW, nice hijack job on this thread.

Excuse me?

How is questioning the authenticity of the original subject any sort of diversion?

If somebody posted "2+2=5" and I questioned it, would that be a hyjack?

Gimme a break.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 3]

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Methinks you forget that Clinton was testifying in a civil case brought against him for Sexual Harassment.

And exactly what was the outcome of that case?

By all accounts, Ms. Lewinski was not sexually harrassed and her actions had no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the case you mention.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 1,623]

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If respect for the office is present, then this trivial name calling would not exist.

I believe you would change your tune in a face to face with him.

I met him when he was Governor of Texas. I was 22 years old, and played a significant role in securing 10 million dollars in investments/venture capital for the firm I worked for. My boss gave a speech on large frame network security at a breakfast at the Governors mansion. Both Governor Bush and President Bush were present, and I met them both face to face.
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Hitler was said to be charming in person. Personal charm is IMO a disadvantage in a politician (but not for a politician), because many people confuse this with being good for the country.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Methinks you forget that Clinton was testifying in a civil case brought against him for Sexual Harassment.

And exactly what was the outcome of that case?

By all accounts, Ms. Lewinski was not sexually harrassed and her actions had no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the case you mention.

***

The point isn't whether the case went anywhere or not. The point is when the court orders you to respond to a question, it isn't up to you to decide whether the order is germaine.

Suppose a defendant in a murder case was compelled to explain his/her whereabouts at the time of the murder and they lied, resulting in the case going nowhere, does that justify their actions? Like it or not Quade, thats how our judicial system works and it isn't up to any defendant to decide which questions to be truthful about and which ones to lie about.
Sorry if you are unable to understand this and what would happen if all defendants were able to lie at will.