Why would a skydiver not get a gear check?

[Brian425 0]

Ok, so I'm a low jump number guy. I completely understand if you don't want a gear check from me; but, get someone you trust to give you a check. Hell, there are usually 22 people on our loads.

I just don't get it. It's so simple and it can save you tons of trouble. Also it set a bad example for us new guys. I'm not ranting, not pissed, just concerned for people who I consider friends.

Please just do it.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[metalslug 31]

Most folks do get a gear check from someone they trust... themselves.
Most licenced jumpers I know like to check their own gear before they even reach the boarding point and join the load. Some experienced jumpers with small rigs can even check their own pins when the rig is already on their back.

As for gear checks before jump run, it can often become akward in a small aircraft like a Cessna, with people shifting or turning around to open and close rig flaps, and the person(s) you trust may not alway be seated close enough to you to do a check.

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No 'mericans were harmed during the making of this post.

[wingnut 0]

it all depends... for me it is imposible to check my reserve pins one i have my rig on andmy main pin is so hidden that it would take some one familiar with my rig to check it easily... most arnt, heck most people havn't ever seen my kind of rig at the dz untll i showed up.... i will agree a pin check is a good thing but not always nesisary... i would want a pin check more on a rig that had a main flap opening up on me in the plane and such. On my curent rig, it s damn near imposible to get my main flap opened in the plain from normal movment.... it's on there good when it's closed!!


as for a "gear check" of checking straps and rings that's something you should do yourself before you get on the plane and something i glance at on everybody within sight but i'm not getting a specific gear check from some one on those things......

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[Faber 0]

i rather chek it myself,i trust my self is that wrong?

Personaly i dont like people opening my flaps or what ever they do..

If people want a gear chek i gladly do it,but as i put on my rig i trust my packjob and gear 100%

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I'm not ranting, not pissed, just concerned for people who I consider friends.

and thats nice of you,thanks

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[riggerrob 558]

Depends whether you trust the other guy.
The last time I asked a guy to check the pins on my Swift container, he did not fasten the Velcro correctly, so every time I did a backloop, the reserve pin cover slapped me in the back of the head!
Ouch!

[Gravitymaster 0]

The reason a skydiver will not get a gear check is usually complacency. Complacency kills.
Complacency manifests itself in many forms. The most common form is being too cool.

[skycat 0]

I think It's the fact that when someone does a pin check they get a little too excited about opening and closing things. I've had people completely open my reserve flap because as a student the reserve flap was velcro, easy open and close. My reserve is packed super tight is a bitch to get closed on the ground and if hook hadn't been on the plane, I would have been riding it down, no one near me could reclose the reserve flap tabs. Now when someone asked if I need a pin check I state main only and ask them to not hit the rig when done. Tapping on the shoulder is perfectly acceptable.
But what is it with people who grab my hackey and give it a tug? Do they have a death wish? Repeat after me, "tugging the hackey does not make it more secure".

Fly it like you stole it!

[AirMail 0]

I always get a complete gear check by someone else before my first jump of the day, and a main pin check every time before I get out of the plane. It is so easy, takes so little time, and might save my life.

Most of the people I jump with do the same.

P-

--
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
Postal Rodriguez, Muff 3342

[Brian425 0]

Hooknswoop pm'ed me a few reasons why some people do not get gear checks. I respect his position and his knowledge. I do not 100% agree; but, as I said I respect his knowledge and experience.

I think one of the the key words some people over looked is someone YOU TRUST. A second set of eyes always helps. Where I jump, we usually have 20 or so people on the load. Most of the time there is someone you trust near by. If I am asked to give a gear check, I let people know my jump numbers and ask if they still want it. I will NEVER touch someone's rig if I am not asked to do so. I firmly believe that if I am not asked, I should do my best not to touch your rig.

This post was not to rant or criticize. It was to ask why some people apparently skip a relatively simple safety procedure. Also as an experienced jumper, you have to remember, a low jump number guy may feel a little shy to ask you for one if you skip yours. We look to you for guidance.

The post was not to criticize. It was to get some knowledge and understand why.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[Guest]

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Hooknswoop pm'ed me a few reasons why some people do not get gear checks. I respect his position and his knowledge. I do not 100% agree; but, as I said I respect his knowledge and experience.

I think one of the the key words some people over looked is someone YOU TRUST. A second set of eyes always helps. Where I jump, we usually have 20 or so people on the load. Most of the time there is someone you trust near by. If I am asked to give a gear check, I let people know my jump numbers and ask if they still want it. I will NEVER touch someone's rig if I am not asked to do so. I firmly believe that if I am not asked, I should do my best not to touch your rig.

This post was not to rant or criticize. It was to ask why some people apparently skip a relatively simple safety procedure. Also as an experienced jumper, you have to remember, a low jump number guy may feel a little shy to ask you for one if you skip yours. We look to you for guidance.

The post was not to criticize. It was to get some knowledge and understand why.

Something I never see brought up in these threads is the means of building trust when it comes to gear checks. I always find it unsettling when there's tugging going on back there and I don't know what it is that's being done, so I decided to set an example.

Anytime someone asks for a gear check, I tell them exactly what I'm doing...

"Your 'Three Threes' look good. Opening reserve flap. Your reserve pin and loop look good. Seal is good. Your Cypres is set to zero. Closing reserve flap on all sides. Your reserve flap is completely closed. Opening main flap. Bridle looks good. Pin is set. Closing main flap."

Tap on shoulder.

mh

.

[billvon 2,434]

I'll tell you why I usually don't:

1. My reserve pin is not inspectable and I can check my own main pin. I can touch everything else on the rig that's important, and if I feel a problem I can ask for assistance (like with my right riser cover that pops open on occasion.)

2. I do not know the competence of many people on the loads I am on; during Rantoul, for example, I do a lot of low-timer organizing. I'd rather just have one procedure that always works (i.e. self-inspection.)

3. I have rigs (Racer, Reflex) that are unfamiliar to many people.

A few comments on gear checks:

1. NEVER do them when the door is open. If you manage to pop a pin while tugging open the main protector cover, having the door open makes it a much bigger deal.

2. Do them such that you have enough time to fix problems, which means do not wait until jump run. You don't want to be fussing when it's time to open the door (see above.)

3. Do not 'fix' things. Do not seat the pin deeper or pull it out without asking the jumper about it. He may have considerations you do not understand (like a recent PC-in-tow from an overly enthusiastic pin-seater.)

[jonstark 8]

Don't touch my stuff. If you see something you want to bring to my attention then do so. Just don't start grabbing flaps and poking around. I have a routine and it works.

I caught a guy wearing a twisted belly band once. All I did was point at it and he about shat. Didn't have to say a word.

jon

"Any of you homos touch my stuff; I'll kill ya."
"Any of you homos calls me Francis; I'll kill ya."

"Lighten up Francis."

[Airman1270 0]

Sometimes I get one, sometimes I don't, for the same reasons already mentioned here.

In 1985, fresh off instruction at a new DZ I asked a very experienced guy (with an instructor rating) for a pin check. He helped me out, but added that I should "learn to take care of myself." I'm sure he was just trying to help me become more self-sufficient, but I was very inexperienced and this attitude made me nervous.

Not wanting to cause any problems I wrote a note to USPA (without identifying anybody) asking advice as to how to deal with this unusual situation. They never replied to me personally, but published my letter in PARACHUTIST. The good news was that my instincts were right. The bad news is that they kicked me off the DZ.

The moral: Get a gear check, and know that anything you send to headquarters can end up in the magazine if you don't specifically ask them not to print it.

Cheers,
Jon

[pullhigh 0]

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone would not want a pin check before exiting the aircraft. At my home DZ, everyone is pretty anal about getting them checked and I like that. At another DZ that I frequent, most of the jumpers there do not want anyone else checking their gear. I personally feel strongly about a simple pin check just prior to exit.

If someone else climbs out with a pin that is not seated properly they put everyone on that plane in danger. There are just too many things that can go wrong, get bumped, wahtever, to not make my life not worth you getting a pin check....

Ganja "Off the soapbox" Rodriguez

[happythoughts 0]

Yesterday, while walking to the plane, I noticed that a jumper had a loop of bridle sticking out. You could put 2 or 3 fingers in it. It was wrapped around the hackey.

2 possible problems. The loop could have caught enough air to tug the hackey out. Or, it could have snagged on something/someone in the a/c.

I mentioned it to the person and they reached back and agreed that it was a problem. They requested that I fix it. Never start "fixing" stuff without the permission of the owner.

I do a visual of everyone that I can see. Anyone who has met me, has had this discussion. I expect everyone I know to do visuals also.
Chest strap routing.
Cutaway pillow should not be under webbing.
Bridle routing and fitting.

[quatorze 1]

gotta agree with Ganja here

especially in situations like these

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As for gear checks before jump run, it can often become akward in a small aircraft like a Cessna,

were the probablity of the pin changing position is even higher

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[HeatherB 0]

This could probably be moved to safety and training...

9 out of 10 times I'll get a pin check, from a friend I trust. I check my own three rings, my handles, my chest strap, etc...but I like to have someone check my main pin, JUST IN CASE. (the hypothetical 10th time being if I don't know anyone on the load)

The whole load could be in danger if I have a premature in the door, so I consider it a small thing to make sure my pin is where it should be.

I will happily check another person's pin if they ask for it. I also visually check the chest straps and handles of those around me.

[wmw999 2,148]

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In 1985, fresh off instruction at a new DZ I asked a very experienced guy (with an instructor rating) for a pin check. He helped me out, but added that I should "learn to take care of myself." I'm sure he was just trying to help me become more self-sufficient, but I was very inexperienced and this attitude made me nervous.

Interesting; I was slowing down in 1985, not to re-start jumping until 2001. My memory of the 70's and 80's was that pin checks happened before you got on the airplane. ALWAYS. The only reason you'd ask for one in the airplane was if you suspected a problem (early Vectors had pins come partly unseated a few times because they were the first ones to be unseatable quite that easily by being caught on something).

So I was very surprised when no one did pin checks outside the airplane when I started again. And even more surprised that they were opening flaps, moving around, and everything else inside the airplane.

I generally give myself a pin check when I put my rig on. If I'm sitting against the seat, I might get a pin check on the plane while the door's shut.

But my preference would be to go back to ones on the ground, in front of the airplane, so that we know that people are ready to go before they even get started.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[HeatherB 0]

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Also as an experienced jumper, you have to remember, a low jump number guy may feel a little shy to ask you for one if you skip yours. We look to you for guidance.

Agreed, good point! I remember when I first started, I sometimes felt like I'd be "bothering" someone if I asked for a pin check.

This past weekend there was a guy right behind me in the otter who was just off student status and doing a high solo. I waited a bit after we all stood up to see if he was going to ask someone for a pin check. He didn't. So, I asked him if he wanted one and he smiled and said yes. I checked both his pins, his 3-rings, his handles, and his chest strap.

We need to watch out for our newer jumpers and help them feel comfortable and welcomed.

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[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Ok, so I'm a low jump number guy. I completely understand if you don't want a gear check from me; but, get someone you trust to give you a check. Hell, there are usually 22 people on our loads.

I just don't get it. It's so simple and it can save you tons of trouble. Also it set a bad example for us new guys. I'm not ranting, not pissed, just concerned for people who I consider friends.

Please just do it.

I stopped having open main-pin covers (probably not a good idea with wind blowing accross the bridle at 140-180 MPH) when I stopped letting other people check my main pin (I have no idea how you can fail to close the flap correctly - it's a standard shark-fin shaped tab that gets tucked under all the other flaps)

The reserve pin and Cypres on my Reflexes are burried against the back pad and can't be checked with the rig on.

[Faber 0]

Hey Francis
hope we meet one day just dont chek my gear as i know you already wants to kill me

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[gjhdiver 0]

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Ok, so I'm a low jump number guy. I completely understand if you don't want a gear check from me; but, get someone you trust to give you a check. Hell, there are usually 22 people on our loads.

I just don't get it. It's so simple and it can save you tons of trouble. Also it set a bad example for us new guys. I'm not ranting, not pissed, just concerned for people who I consider friends.

Please just do it.

Put simply. Don't touch me or my gear unless I personally request you to do so. I don't need eager hands fumbling around with my equipment.

I'll give you a gear check if you ask, but I'm not going to offer.

[BlindBrick 0]

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But what is it with people who grab my hackey and give it a tug?

They are likely checking to see if your pc is going to monkey fist, creating a total on the main.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[dgskydive 0]

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As for gear checks before jump run, it can often become akward in a small aircraft like a Cessna, with people shifting or turning around to open and close rig flaps, and the person(s) you trust may not alway be seated close enough to you to do a check.

At least inmy mind, whenb in a plane like a 182 you should always make sure to get a gear check. Chances are if you are on a 182 with someone. You are jumping with them. YOu better trust them or you shouldn't jump with them. Those planes can cause all kinds of havok on your gear. Such a small tiny space. The chances of getting something pulled on accident is way higher then say an Otter. Just because of the lack of space.

Dom

[skyjules 0]

Gear checks are always good. Just a couple weeks ago, a skydiver climbed out before noticing his chest strap wasn't attached properly. He climbed back in before jumping, but how much closer can you get when your already outside the door.

***Free bird Forever