A theory about "finding the right guy"

[Heatmiser 0]

Not a jab at you at all, just an observation, I knew you had posted this thread before I even saw your name! If it's a complaint about work, or a complication in relationships, or friction with roommates or landlords, I know it's Nataly!

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[shah269 0]

I think you're looking at the problem incorrectly.
You are asking about the set odds of the game of mating where by the amount of energy expended by the guys and girls is similar in comparing the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing one.
Yeah I know you can throw but I bet shooting does more.

So let's look at this from a macro level and not from a micro level. On aggregate yes attractive girls do get more attention than non attractive women. Thus the good looking girl appears to have more opportunities to bump into Mr. Right.

In this case, me trying to read your mind, Mr. Right has his act together, is really deeply a very kind person and just so happens to fit the physical mold that you are looking for.

But let' face if Mr. Right fell out of the sky and did a downwind landing screaming your name.....if you are a good looking girl use to getting a good bit of attention you just aren't going to see him or hear him. And why? Simple. Look at the attention that the girl is getting as static, noise. And Mr. Right is a signal.

When the signal to noise ratio is such that you can't hear or see Mr. Right well you'll never notice him. You are a satellite dish and you just have too much noise coming in. And every now and again a bit of noise of high enough strength comes in and you suddenly think "AH HA!" only to find out after a few months...."Ah CRAP just another tool!"

This is the "game" of dating. The woman sits there as if she were some sort of satellite dish aimed at the night sky just receiving anything and everything hoping to find some semblance of intelligent life.
Her energy expenditure, throwing a bullet, while the guys having crossed the cosmos...shooting the bullet.

OK so how do we "fix" your antenna so that you actually notice Mr. Right flying past you on that downwind landing screaming like Ned Flanders. Well how about the good looking girl stops being so fracking passive. Passivity means getting what the tide brings in. Which can be safe and secure and well let's face it the tide can sometimes bring in some good stuff! But then again it may be covered in god knows what and smelling of death and be Mr. OK and not Mr. Right.

So if a good looking girl wants to meet Mr. Right she can sit and hope.....which has worked for thousands of years. And could still work...it's just a numbers game. Or she can become an active seeker. That is to say step away from the comfortable safety of the shore and take the risk of approaching Mr. Right and seeing if he is ok rather than waiting for him to come to you wondering why you didn't come to help him when he did an epic PLF into a parked car.
And sure approaching Mr. Right has some very real risks, he may not be interested. He may be married or you may not be his Ms. Right. So you can get rejected and thus the good looking girl may expend all that energy and still loose. But her odds of finding Mr. Right go up due to her reducing the total amount of static she has to deal with. She becomes an active participant rather than just a passive one. And who knows, maybe the next guy she says hi to....he may be Mr. Right.

(sorry about the long post but there is no way in simplying such a complicated topic)

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

This topic has circulated a number of times and keeps rearing its ugly head every time a single gal talks about the difficulties of "finding the right guy"...

So here is the myth: attractive girls can find a man without even batting an eyelash.

Ok, that is obviously exaggerated, but you get the idea...

Now, I'm sure that a beautiful woman probably *would* find more men interested in her, but ultimately, given each person is unique and has unique tastes, there should still be the same percentage of "suitable" soul-mates for attractive people as the uglies. The fact that an attractive person may have more suitors doesn't mean that those suitors are "suitable"...

You know, it's a bit like having satellite TV... Sure, there are more options, but what good is having 350 channels of crap telly when all you want is a really good movie?!!

So here is my theory... More choice does not equal more "Mr. Rights".

Any thoughts?

"So here is the myth: attractive girls can find a man without even batting an eyelash."

Not a myth. It is seen everywhere. Guys will find an excuse to talk to attractive women. It happens all the time, everywhere.

"So here is my theory... More choice does not equal more "Mr. Rights"."

It certainly stands a better chance.
Here again, if an attractive woman has 30 guys ask her out, she can set minimum standards.
She has a personal definition of Mr. Right.
There will be 4 of the 30 who meet the minimum to get in the game. She has a better chance of finding what she wants because the initial choices are closer to the goal.

[Nataly 38]

Quote

Not a jab at you at all, just an observation, I knew you had posted this thread before I even saw your name! If it's a complaint about work, or a complication in relationships, or friction with roommates or landlords, I know it's Nataly!

Well, that's probably kind of fair..! I'm single and I spend all my time at work or in my flat, so yeah.. Those topics are going to be prevalent in my mind!! Although in fairness the roommate / landlord theme isn't recurring - it just seems to have stuck in people's minds!! And I don't think I complain about work (although I have complained about exams!).. I believe the last topic that was work-related was either how I've had some really great colleagues, or how someone asked me on a coffee-date!! (WHOA - mixing *both* topics - how sad!!)

As for relationships.. Well, I'm interested in finding out what makes them work (or not), since I haven't figured it out myself yet!!

He he.. Guess the "predictability" of my lame posts supports my theory that I need to change what I'm doing with my life!!

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[shah269 0]

Quote

As for relationships.. Well, I'm interested in finding out what makes them work (or not), since I haven't figured it out myself yet!!

Welcome to my life since I was.....10.
Don't think about it too much.
As Depechmode once said "People are people..."
The laws that govern out social behavior are set in stone and not many if any are willing to challange them.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Bolas 5]

Looking for new activities?

I hear skydiving is kinda fun...

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[shah269 0]

Quote

Looking for new activities?

I hear skydiving is kinda fun...

Yeah bro but this is worse.
In this sport it's much like Engineering.
Where a girl who is OK looking in the outside world suddenly becomes "the hot one".

Want to see things go nutty, watch a girl who gets no attention in her life on the outside suddenly get more attention then she knows what to do with.

The results are not good. Not for Mr. Right nor for Ms. Right.

The same for a guy who goes into say education or the medical field. Dork to Tool in 0.25 seconds.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[DFWAJG 4]

Actually, attractive women have more difficulty with men. When men see pretty women, they often assume that the woman is taken, or that they just aren't good enough for a good looking woman.

[quade 3]

Quote

So here is my theory... More choice does not equal more "Mr. Rights".

Any thoughts?

Yes and no. If the pool is zero, the the chance of finding any "Mr. Rights" also drops to zero. Above a certain number, it's impossible for the female to sample every potential candidate and decide before time runs out. Even if you just did five minute speed dates, it would be impossible to sample every available male in the US.

Somewhere in between there is an ideal number of contacts.

Dunbar's number suggests the optimum number of contacts for a person's social network is in the range of 100 and 230. With that in mind, anybody looking to maximize their chances of finding "Mr. Right" would limit their female friends and maximize their number of available male friends towards that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shah269 0]

Yeah but then look at my cousins. Both very attractive women.

One was on a billboard for Budlight for a number of years in NJ and the other pulls in $45k bartending.

Now that I'm single they both can't comprehend the thought of having to "work" for a date. Infact while I was talking to one while she was at Starbucks she got hit on 5 times. I'm sure of the 5 one had to be a nice guy?

But having too many choices can muddy the watters.
Thus....they are both what I lovingly call "Tool Food" that is to say the strong static, the Tool, gets a hit as if he is Mr. Right. At which point I get a phone call where one or the other is crying for he dumped her for a girl who is 21, both are 30ish.

I've told them time and time again, maybe your stratagy of sitting and receiving isn't the best possible method of finding Mr. Right. And they both have indicated that they just don't want to "risk" being rejected and but are prefectly happy rejecting guys.

Don't think about it too much. It's the social order. And things are not going to change. Why? Because 1 in 10 does find Mr. Somewhat which is better than being single for the rest of your life.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[k-dubjumps 0]

Quote

This topic has circulated a number of times and keeps rearing its ugly head every time a single gal talks about the difficulties of "finding the right guy"...

So here is the myth: attractive girls can find a man without even batting an eyelash.

Ok, that is obviously exaggerated, but you get the idea...

Now, I'm sure that a beautiful woman probably *would* find more men interested in her, but ultimately, given each person is unique and has unique tastes, there should still be the same percentage of "suitable" soul-mates for attractive people as the uglies. The fact that an attractive person may have more suitors doesn't mean that those suitors are "suitable"...

You know, it's a bit like having satellite TV... Sure, there are more options, but what good is having 350 channels of crap telly when all you want is a really good movie?!!

So here is my theory... More choice does not equal more "Mr. Rights".

Any thoughts?

I think it all depends on where a woman has set her standards. If she has predefined expectations and has thus built a mold for a man to fill, her odds of finding someone to fill that mold are going to be small regardless of how many men she is meeting. I think that if a woman thinks about what she doesn't want in a man rather than what she does want in "the right guy" her odds will be better.

I also think that women (and men) make the mistake of not distinguishing what they want from what they need. Those wants then become part of the mold they are looking to fill. If just the needs were the basis for the mold, then the wants would come as an added bonus.

Adrenaline is my crack

DPH #3
D.S. #16 FAG #12 Muff Brother #4406

[k-dubjumps 0]

Quote

Actually, attractive women have more difficulty with men. When men see pretty women, they often assume that the woman is taken, or that they just aren't good enough for a good looking woman.

I think only insecure men assume that they aren't good enough for a good looking woman.

Adrenaline is my crack

DPH #3
D.S. #16 FAG #12 Muff Brother #4406

[OlympiaStoica 0]

I can't believe I'm saying this ... ... a shah post that actually made sense.

I liked the "signal to noise ratio" analogy and the advice to stop being passive actually makes sense (yeah, I'm still talking about something shah said ). One problem: since for "tousands of years" (as you put it) men got used to us women "sitting around" and wait to be courted, when some of us take the lead men rarely interpret it correctly ... or favorably.

I stopped the "sitting around waiting" a few years ago - it hasn't helped me find "Mr. Right" (so far) and I've had many guys label me as "agressive".

O

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Quote

Actually, attractive women have more difficulty with men. When men see pretty women, they often assume that the woman is taken, or that they just aren't good enough for a good looking woman.

I think only insecure men assume that they aren't good enough for a good looking woman.

There's also a third possibility: They may think she gets hit on all the time, and unless can come up with some sort of unique way to introduce themselves will seem just like everyone else.

Of course if she sees someone she's interested in and makes the first move, all this is moot.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

I've had many guys label me as "agressive".

O

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[shah269 0]

Quote

I think only insecure men assume that they aren't good enough for a good looking woman.

It has nothing to do with insecurity or security or ego.
It's a quick calculation in our heads. Ok I'm going to spend energy walking over talking to that girl. OK it's a binomial distribution, she smiles or she tells me to piss off.

Ok what do i loose? time...ok I can deal with that. But if she shoots me down hard how much time to recover? OK do i have enough energy and will to recover from that with in a given ammount of time I have? Yes? Ok let's go talk to her. No, well let's enjoy another drink.

It's all a very quick risk calculation. All the risk is on us guys. What risk does a girl take? Saying yes and having a bad time. So it's in your favor to say no.
Thus why I indicated early on, the difference is similar to throwing a bullet, a womans risk in the game, to shooting a bullet, the risks and energy a guy has to expend.

And the only way to win this game if you don't like your odds is to either step away or to change the rules.
For a guy, the options are limited. For a girl the option is simple. Stop being passive and be more active in looking for Mr. Right.
Be it online dating or just walking up to a guy and say hi. Sorry ladies, the bar is dark and we can't read you little signals.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[shah269 0]

Quote

I stopped the "sitting around waiting" a few years ago - it hasn't helped me find "Mr. Right" (so far) and I've had many guys label me as "agressive".

O

Agressive.....I think that's how you girls see most of us guys. Thank you for taking the risk and choosing not to play this game and taking charge of your life. it takes huge guts to do what you did not many if any have the guts to do what you are doing. Bravo!
And now you know know how we guys feel on average.

In my short 33 years here on this earth I've been hit on by a woman once. And I have to say she did it with great skill and i did not find her aggressive at all. It was a simple "Hi my name is Adriana...." and off it went. It was one of the best and most honest relationships I ever had because we started off on the level with each other.

She is now a lawyer in Brazil married to a doctor and just had her first kid.

I on the other hand risked huge sums of money and time to be with my soon to be X wife. And I'll be honest I always resented that I had to put up such huge ammounts of energy to be with her and her not understanding the risks I took.

Who knows maybe I'll get lucky and find another Adriana and live a long happy life with her. who knows....but odds are....no.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[ManagingPrime 0]

Quote

So here is my theory... More choice does not equal more "Mr. Rights".

Any thoughts?

On behalf of all the "uglies" I'm going to have to say that this is the exact kind of theory that one would expect from a "pretty".

...Shah (I'm a little suprised) has been spot on several times in this post.

[ryoder 1,393]

Quote

I stopped the "sitting around waiting" a few years ago - it hasn't helped me find "Mr. Right" (so far) and I've had many guys label me as "agressive".

Well, as long as you still respect us in the morning...

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[TriGirl 277]

Quote

Why? Because 1 in 10 does find Mr. Somewhat which is better than being single for the rest of your life.

-1. No way. I'd rather be single, living life as I choose.

My most common comment, esp from older women: "I don't understand why you're not married!" The mistake in this premise is the same as the premise some take from Nataly's OP. It's not as if I couldn't find SOMEONE to marry. It's that the options presented thus far have been inadequate.

No, not inadequate looking, or financially inadequate -- I mean the whole picture. I'm not afraid to ask a guy out. Sometimes that means rejection, sometimes it just doesn't work out. Sometimes the object of my interest is otherwise unavailable (married, gay, committed relationship, not looking for long-term, won't move for my military career, whatever), and sometimes we're just not compatible. Sometimes, I'm sure, I just don't see that someone might be interested, which is why it definitely goes both ways. Lots of pieces to fit together, and at least until now, they haven't fit together to make me and someone else into Ms and Mr Right.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[Nataly 38]

Quote

Quote

So here is my theory... More choice does not equal more "Mr. Rights".

Any thoughts?

On behalf of all the "uglies" I'm going to have to say that this is the exact kind of theory that one would expect from a "pretty".

...Shah (I'm a little suprised) has been spot on several times in this post.

I agree - I've been surprised by many of Shah's comments in this thread!

But I don't think I fall in the "beautiful" category. Nor would I describe myself as an "ugly".. Those two are extremes for the sake of argument, and I am very much in the "average".

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[ManagingPrime 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

So here is my theory... More choice does not equal more "Mr. Rights".

Any thoughts?

On behalf of all the "uglies" I'm going to have to say that this is the exact kind of theory that one would expect from a "pretty".

...Shah (I'm a little suprised) has been spot on several times in this post.

I agree - I've been surprised by many of Shah's comments in this thread!

But I don't think I fall in the "beautiful" category. Nor would I describe myself as an "ugly".. Those two are extremes for the sake of argument, and I am very much in the "average".

Baaaa haa haa ha ha.... Ok.

[Nataly 38]

Quote

Quote

But I don't think I fall in the "beautiful" category. Nor would I describe myself as an "ugly".. Those two are extremes for the sake of argument, and I am very much in the "average".

Baaaa haa haa ha ha.... Ok.

Dude, that avatar is the *best* picture I have of me. I assure you I'm ordinary (although I will admit to having great abs, but that it just one feature and not the whole picture)!!

To me beautiful is the exception (and so it ugly). And I just don't fit into either category. I think the average woman is pretty, but not beautiful. And although it's hard to tell from just your little picture, I don't think you look like a very good definition of "ugly"!

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[ManagingPrime 0]

Just giving you a hard time. That's my best picture too...it's small for a reason. Even in my best pic I'm still hideous.

Sorry....Should have just given Shah a +1.

[shah269 0]

Quote

It's that the options presented thus far have been inadequate.

I'm sorry but I'm going to pick on you for a second.
But I get this often from the old ladies at my Yoga class.

OK, what do you think that Mr. Right is going to fall from the sky and music will start playing? This is life not some sort of Bollywood movie.
As my grandmother use to say "Fish don't just jump into your boat."

Now that being said, I'm sorry I don't know you and I'm sorry for making this assumption that you are not more active in your search. If you are I'm sorry and I don't mean to offend and I wish you the best of luck.

As for Nat, darling, gorgeous.
You are a girl in a mostly male sport. As we say in the field of engineering, "If her eyebrows are not connected and she's not wearing sweat pants she's hot."

OK maybe in your chosen field you are not all that and a bag of chips but I would be at the DZ....yeah you are.
Further more looking at the latest data regarding the US. If you are under a size 8 and have a minimum of a 4 year education and are not prone to screaming fits.....YOU ARE A HELL OF A CATCH!

I know! I've been on dates and let me tell you I HATE IT! So sadly you do qualify as the hot girl.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!