Is higher education still worth it??

[Krip 2]

Hi N

Some institute's of higher learning are a industry. They overestimate the potential earnings and the available jobs.

A admissions counselor was being interviewed and admitted he was nothing but a glorified salesperson, as long as the student could qualify for a loan they were admitted.

The education industry knows that due to the cost/income ratio even if their students graduate, and get a job their cocks up, and doomed to a life of poverty.

This crap has been going on forever. Now with the current student loan program in the US, that student loan debt will even follow you after you die, if anyone has cosigned for you.

I did my duty for god and country, went to college on the G.I. bill and graduated debt free with a Engineering degree. My boss got her second job thru an apprenticeship program. And also graduated debt free.

The peeps that come from the right family's can get into the right schools graduate without debt and know they have a nice job waiting for them when they graduate either with the family or the families friends.

No one said life is fair, or if you work hard enough you will be able to earn a comfortable income to support your family.

$90k/yr yikes inflation is a bitch.



Have a happy

One Jump Wonder

[NWFlyer 2]

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Well the other thing is we never really look at where the degree's from. It just gets you to the interview. Once you get there, El Cheapo U is as good as Harvard, at least for a technical trade.

The farther along someone is in their career, the less I care about where they went to school. If I'm hiring for a position that requires a degree, then I just care that they went to school, but if they also bring 10+ years of experience, I'm much more interested in that work experience and what they bring to the table than I am about what school they managed to get into when they were 18 (or, for that matter, if they even followed a traditional college path and started at 18).

That said, "name" schools can and do open doors, either directly (one of the intangibles you get with a prestige school is access to a broad and often very well-placed alumni network), or indirectly (people see a "name" school on the resume and you get an interview where someone else might not).

But your "El Cheapo" vs. "Harvard" comparison isn't necessarily the best one. There are some top-notch public universities whose names carry a lot of weight in the marketplace (at least among employers who care where their employees went to school) and there are some schools that cost a fortune (as much or more than the top-notch private schools like Harvard) that have a horrible reputation in the market. Cost is not necessarily a measure of quality or prestige of the degree.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[ryoder 1,384]

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However here in West OZ, many many people are leaving their degree required job to work in the mining industry as untrained labour or truck drivers.
The money here in Mining is ridiculously good. 100K+ for driving a truck

Yeah, but have you seen how they drive those trucks???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4TdPxOXuYw&t=1m

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Oh sure! You probably don't want a brain surgeon or a lawyer from El Cheapo U. For a programming position in your average company, it doesn't really matter. I'd give a lot more respect to an portfolio of code up on github. I have yet to run across a candidate who has claimed to have one, though.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[Squeak 17]

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However here in West OZ, many many people are leaving their degree required job to work in the mining industry as untrained labour or truck drivers.
The money here in Mining is ridiculously good. 100K+ for driving a truck

Yeah, but have you seen how they drive those trucks???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4TdPxOXuYw&t=1m

Wrong sort of truck

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Hi N

Some institute's of higher learning are a industry. They overestimate the potential earnings and the available jobs.

I see ATC institutes training way more people in a 2 year program than the FAA will ever hire. Of course you pay your $$$ but they won't tell you that.

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A admissions counselor was being interviewed and admitted he was nothing but a glorified salesperson, as long as the student could qualify for a loan they were admitted.

Some of these schools are borderline scams. I visited a couple of training institutes with one of my kids. Some seemed pretty light weight.

The cost of college has risen much faster than the rate of inflation. I used to be able to pay tuition and books working part time, just about impossible now. Where's all the money going??

[kallend 1,623]

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The cost of college has risen much faster than the rate of inflation. I used to be able to pay tuition and books working part time, just about impossible now. Where's all the money going??

Well!

18 years ago when I was dean, my college office oversaw 14 undergraduate programs. Our current dean's office has 3 more staff and oversees 8 programs.

When you were in college you probably didn't have required offices to ensure compliance with FERPA, ADA, OSHA, "diversity" and a myriad other regulations. You probably didn't have a counseling service with professional psychologists to tender to disturbed students. You probably didn't have to cater to students leaving high school who couldn't read or do math at grade level. You probably had department secretaries where now there are "administrative associates". You probably didn't have to equip all buildings with WiFi so students could surf the net while in class. Your dorm room was probably quite spartan, whereas now students (and their parents) expect dorms like hotels with gyms in the basement. The faculty probably wrote on blackboards rather than using interactive computerized projection systems that communicate with the iPads supplied by the school.

I could continue, but I expect you get it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[oldwomanc6 38]

So, if I'm hearing you correctly, the university system. is broken.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[nigel99 144]

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job dependent a "higher education" will facilitate more employment opportunities.

Assuming you are not just isolating out University Education, but including Diplomas and higher level certificates,

However here in West OZ, many many people are leaving their degree required job to work in the mining industry as untrained labour or truck drivers.
The money here in Mining is ridiculously good. 100K+ for driving a truck

I did an apprenticeship originally and got a trade certificate as an electrical technician, before 'moving up' the system. The screwed up salary structure here in WA has got me seriously thinking about working on the mines - to the extent that I converted my original trade cert to an Ozzie cert. Whether I follow through with the change or not is another matter - I quite like using my brain

I want my boys to do apprenticeships, neither of them are very academic and the way I see it there is always time to do a degree when you REALLY know what you want to do.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Krip 2]

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Hi John

Borderline scams is a understatement

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The cost of college has risen much faster than the rate of inflation. I used to be able to pay tuition and books working part time, just about impossible now. Where's all the money going??

To cover expenses of course
http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/26/news/economy/veterans-schools/index.htm

In the small town we live in, there was a high roller that got caught in the Education bussiness scam by the feds. Bunch of pissed off students blew the whistle about his cock-up business.

After that we read in the press That the nice man had started a charity to raise money for the needy kids in africa

It is what it is.

One Jump Wonder

[Amazon 7]

Yes, That is all

[NWFlyer 2]

Interesting take on student loan debt and its impact on financial health:

http://www.wisebread.com/student-loans-the-third-way-to-ruin-your-finances

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Well the other thing is we never really look at where the degree's from. It just gets you to the interview. Once you get there, El Cheapo U is as good as Harvard, at least for a technical trade.

Maybe for trades, but not for the professions.

For some professions too.

I've never noticed a correlation between where software engineers went to school and on the job performance amongst those who pass a hiring bar which doesn't take into account candidates' educational credentials.

A larger fraction of some schools' graduates fail to pass that bar; although I don't hold that against others who can or get my hopes up for candidates from "better" schools because too many still fail. The groups I've worked for (including some at Amazon, Microsoft, and Qualcomm) have done the same for people with experience in industry.

In one case that was most likely attributable to the computer science department's grab for more tuition dollars. The professor teaching a core sophomore class failed a lot of people (allegedly 1/3) because most of the students' grade came from how well their projects performed against automated test suites generated by teaching assistants (not too different than in industry). She was replaced by some one who didn't do that and allowed more people to remain in the department for their junior year and beyond. Few (if any) of the graduates we interviewed before the change were turned down because they lacked programming aptitude; perhaps half were after.

Schools could theoretically help differentiate between new graduates whose resumes stop at

"BS CS degree"

although there are enough differentiated (via personal projects, internships, and even project classes) new graduates with experience to suggest they'll do better than others in industry it's not an issue.

[Krip 2]

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Interesting take on student loan debt and its impact on financial health:

http://www.wisebread.com/student-loans-the-third-way-to-ruin-your-finances

One Jump Wonder

[Muffie 0]

I think it's very much about the individual and how they approach things. I still have significant student loan debt because I paid for my second degree myself when my company backed out of sponsoring me. And I had to borrow for my first degree, too.

BUT. Both came from schools that were worth borrowing to go to.

My first job out of college I didn't have the right major but because I'd gone to "a really good school" they hired me and trusted me to go knock out the six units of accounting that were required.

And while I had years of work experience that qualified me to actually do the job that I was hired for after my MBA program, I don't doubt that the school I got that degree from mattered very much to the company that hired me.

On the other hand, I know a number of people, some skydivers included, who skipped college and busted their asses and are doing just fine.

If you want a corporate/professional-type position, I think you pretty much need that degree. If you're entrepreneurial, creative, or looking to get into something like skydiving, then I say you work hard and get there without the degree.

What you don't do is what my mother did when she finally decided to go to college and borrow the most they'll let you borrow and spend it on stupid shit. That's the path to doom.

[wmw999 2,122]

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What you don't do is what my mother did when she finally decided to go to college and borrow the most they'll let you borrow and spend it on stupid shit.

So all those people who ask if they should use some of their student loan money to buy gear -- bad idea?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Krip 2]

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What you don't do is what my mother did when she finally decided to go to college and borrow the most they'll let you borrow and spend it on stupid shit.

So all those people who ask if they should use some of their student loan money to buy gear -- bad idea?

Wendy P.

A instructor on dz.com actually suggested that to help a nice lady in college to help her pay for Aff, and maybe even gear she should use her student loan money

The situation is so bad for a cosigner some people suggest taking out a life insurance policy on the student for the value of the loan. Just in case the student dies before the loan is paid off.The student loan debt is worse than cradle to the grave.

Not all student loans are the same ymmv.

If anyone care they can Google it. Student loan debt may exceed CC debt

One Jump Wonder

[Rule000 0]

Is higher education still worth it??
For the bongs, thongs and schlongs! Hell yeah!
Where else can women freely explore their dormant bisexual nature?
And men experience their first threesome?

Yeah can’t do none of that shit at work unless your work happens to be a DJ at a strip club!

[beowulf 1]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-19/presenting-college-whose-graduates-have-62-student-loan-default-rate

Which college you go to does matter.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Muffie,

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On the other hand, I know a number of people, some skydivers included, who skipped college and busted their asses and are doing just fine.

It is my understanding that Bill Booth has a degree in music.

JerryBaumchen

PS) We insisted that both of our children go to college. They both now have quite good paying jobs.

[wmw999 2,122]

There's a lot more room in many companies for someone with a (preferably relevant) degree, than for the really stellar guy who never finished it.

If you are dead set on being an entrepreneur or tradesman, it probably doesn't matter nearly as much. Of course, if you plan on being an entrepreneur, it helps to have a realistic plan and knowledge of your business.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,623]

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So, if I'm hearing you correctly, the university system. is broken.

If you wish to think of the problem as being due to the universities.

I think the problem is due to society's expectations that universities can correct 13 years of K-12 mistakes, 18 years of TV and video game addiction, and the expectation that everyone can benefit if only the college would do x, y and z (at great expense). As one example, it actually costs us more money to provide a signer in every class for a deaf student than the student pays in tuition. We are obliged to do this by the ADA. Whose tuition payments do you think go up to cover the loss?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 622]

What about engineers?

[Krip 2]

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What about engineers?

Please tell me you don, t believe what #2 aka shah was saying.

Or do you.?

One Jump Wonder

[quade 3]

The B.A. is the new High School Diploma. Even for some pretty freakin' unskilled labor a lot of employers now require it. Why? Same reason a dog licks its ball, because they can.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/college-degree-required-by-increasing-number-of-companies.html?hp&_r=0

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver