Letting people borrow your gear?

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Personally, I left my rig for someone to borrow because he's the brother of a guy I know and respect out at the DZ, and he needed my size canopy to get to jump and the only rentals were in for re-pack...and I figured what the heck, I'm not jumping it! Someone else can have some fun!
I've seen some vastly different attitudes towards loaning/borrowing gear, and I was just wondering what everyone else thinks?

Me, I have no problem sharing, as long as my stuff is ready for me when it's my turn!

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[jmfreefly 0]

I am a pretty generous person with my gear, as long as people abide by the 'you break it, you buy it' rule.

However, be careful who you lend your gear to. Here is an example, which cost me parts and a repack.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=627233#627233

Lesson learned with that one: A friend of a friend may not really be your friend.

j

[fool 0]

definately depends on the person, but mostly just canopy skills... I have borrowed and lent gear quite a few times, and probably will in the future, in fact the first jump on my brand new canopy was by another jumper who is more experienced than I, to see if it was good to go or not.

S.E.X. party #1

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride".

[ChrisL 2]

Nope.

Call me stingy if you like. If they want to put up a damage deposit equal to the value of the equipment, then I would lend it out.
Otherwise, no way.

You see, I purchased my gear with a one time windfall.
If it were lost or damaged I would not be able to afford a replacement for a long time.

If I loaned it out and someone damaged it or destroyed it and couldnt replace it I would pretty much have to quit jumping.

Then theres the other thing. What if I loaned it out to someone and they bounced?
Of course it was on them but even so I would feel partially responsible anyway. I dont want to have to live with something like that.

I'm not ever going to borrow someone elses gear and I'm not lending mine out. Nope.

__

My mighty steed

[Zenister 0]

I'd be alittle sketchy about letting anyone else have my infinity (unless i knew them really well and wasnt jumping) but for 'spare' equipment if someone can put it use and i'm not its all yours.. My sabre is in Biscuit's rig and Cajones has my mirage and reserve in Elsinore...

its all about helping out when you can...if other's hadnt done the same i'd still be looking for a wingsuit to try....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[d604 0]

No way, I look at if what if something goes wrong. I don't want that liability.

Sean

CSPA ratings C1, C2, IA, IB, QE, RA, and EJR

[freakflyer9999 1]

I've been on both sides of the lending/borrowing situation.

I once loaned my rig to a rigger who wanted to jump it for a demo. He returned it packed with a spinning malfunction. Obviously I didn't trust him to then repack my reserve, but of course neither did he offer. I was due for a repack within a week anyway, so no big deal. My regular rigger had it repacked within an hour and had me back to jumping.

Within the past few weeks I asked someone I had met through an internet classified if I could test jump a rig he was selling. Turns out that we both work at the same place, but had never met before. He let me borrow the rig while I get recurrent after a long layoff. Due to weather it took several weeks for me to even get a jump on it, then the reserve was due so I paid to have it repacked and asked if I could keep it for a few more weeks. I have decided not to buy the rig, so yesterday while putting the last jump I intended to on the rig I damaged (dime sized hole) the reserve pin flap. I immediately called the owner and I've already made arrangements to have it repaired to the owners satisfaction.

I wouldn't hesitate to loan my gear to someone that I know would make things right, but it is hard to tell who that may be nowadays.

KG

[sunshine 2]

I've loaned my rig to so many people. I guess i'm just nice that way.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Amazon 7]

I have loaned the BIG RED Infinity out to some of the locals who wanted to test jump thier BASE canopys in it.. since my first one will handle really HUGE canopys. BUT.. after the steering toggle came loose from the steering line while I was at the MArdiGras boogie... ( they had used my risers and took the Triathalon off to put them on the Base Canopy.. I dont think I would do it again. The steering line was not put back on properly.. it was over the small part of the toggle not the long portion and when I unstowed it.. ( after 20 jumps or so since I loaned the rig...) it just came loose.. Rear riser landing in no wind was not fun. On inspection the OTHER steering line was also put on wrong.
I have a few older Wonderhogs now.. and if they want to test out those canopys they can use those.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Quote

No way, I look at if what if something goes wrong. I don't want that liability.

I suppose that could end up being an issue too...but really, if my rig is ready to go, it's packed and ready for me...if someone borrowed it, and they ended up with line twists, a hard opening, or a mal, it would have happened to me if I had jumped it on that occasion as well...I'm not packing for anyone else, I'm packing for myself (or paying the packer to do it ) And I guess I see it that if someone doesn't trust my pack jobs on my own gear, or the packer that's been packing it for me since I got my stuff, then people don't have to borrow my stuff, simple as that.

-I can see this being a bigger issue on some of those slick-fast fancy-pants canopies some of y'all jump, but mine is just an excellent size and type (Triathlon 190, brand new!) for those of us with A and B skills and our 50-200 jumps or thereabouts, and there is a HUGE population at our DZ of these jumpers. Many of us can't afford a rig at this time in our jumping career, and thanks to Aerodyne's contest, I didn't have to!! I know my set-up is safe for our group to play with, and I do like to share my good fortune.

PS, I didn't find out how it went though with the guy who borrowed it on Saturday after I left...couldn't have been too bad or I know I would have heard about it!

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

I'd agree with you as far as damage on a rig is concerned. If I borrowed someone's gear and damaged it, I'd pay to have it repaired. I'd appreciate the same on my gear, but sometimes stuff happens, and if it happens to be on someone else's back when it gets ripped or something, well I'm not going to march up to them and demand payment in full. We'd work something out.

HOWEVER that won't ever be an issue anyhoo...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[skygod7777 0]

i'll let anyone borrow my gear if they can fly it, and that is a limited number of people that can safely fly an 85 vx.

the only thing i ask is if you use it, pack it back up. if you damage it, pay for the repairs. if you have a cut away, i'll help you find my parts, and if they can't be found, then they need to be replaced (like if you throw a handle or we can't find the freebag or something).

and that's how i've always been with my gear, and always will be, because like i said there is only a limited number of people that can fly my stuff, so not many people ask

later

[VectorBoy 0]

Since my skydiving gear is really nothing spectacular I haven't had to loan it. But I own a few wing suits, one of them being one of a kind. I don't mind loaning some of them. And one of them has a tremendous amount of jumps that I didn't put on it, that one gets passed around quite a bit, even for extended periods. Stains are not a problem as I own a bitchen washing machine. I only get tweaked if someone does an ass grind landing in my suits. If you can't stand up a landing in your present garb work on it BEFORE you do something on the little extra side of skydiving, more so if the gear is borrowed. These suits are 10 times as expensive as any jump suit and unlike any jumpsuit they cannot be repaired by just anybody.
I've been lucky, my suits get good treatment and good enjoyment , for the most part( why I share ) I've only had one bad incident. Other wing suit loaning peers of mine are not quite so lucky.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Yeah, I'll lend out my rig to someone as long as I know them and am reasonably certain they would fix a problem should one occur. I think it's only fair, because I've borrowed a LOT of gear from others to try out different canopies. My only restricition is that I tend not to let other people pack it, even if they are jumping it. Call me paranoid, but I know my gear, I'm my own rigger, and have been packing more and longer than most people with five times my jumps. My theory is that if I pack it, I won't have to worry about a malfunction, and in the unlikely event that it happens anyway, it's not their fault, so there won't be any arguments.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[Unstable 8]

I am a generous person when It comes to other people using my Gear - The only reason I would hesitate to let a friend borrow it for a jump is if I felt that they would not be ready for the size of canopy I have in my container......
If a person is getting ready to Downsize and wants to spend a few jumps with my 150, then I have no problem letting them use it, as long as they respect my property and show consideration - Kinda like returning a friends car with a full tank of gas kinda thing....

=========Shaun ==========

[nacmacfeegle 0]

To a stranger that I've never met, or don't know, I might, but only if I was sure they were suited to it. Harness size, deployment method (main and reserve), and wing loading being the primary factors
Otherwise, if I'm not using it and as long as they ask, its all good with me. Of course, if they bend it they mend it.

As you say, its a Karma thing, I've borrowed enough gear in my time to pay some back/forward.
Ask Slappie who still has a spare sabre of mine, or Aggiedave who took a face plant a couple of years ago rather than get Texan mud on my brand new Javelin.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[damion75 0]

Quote

If a person is getting ready to Downsize ... then I have no problem letting them use it, as long as they respect my property and show consideration - Kinda like returning a friends car with a full tank of gas kinda thing....

Pretty much the same - I wouldn't lend it out to a stranger and it has to be someone I trust. Example? there is one guy on my DZ I know could happily manage my canopy but I have seen the way he treats his own gear and there is no way I would let him get his hands on mine!

But friends in need? Who are safe on it? (its not exactly small!) no problem...

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[skydiverton 0]

Depends on the person.
I fly a stiletto 107

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Quote

Depends on the person.
I fly a stiletto 107

A-ha...I won't be knockin' on your door anytime soon...

And Kelly's is just 'right out', to quote Monty Python...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[riggerrob 558]

What about AADs?
My attitude towards loaning gear changed radically when Square One installed Cypri in all their rental gear, back in the mid 1990s.For liability reasons, I don't loan gear unless it contains an AAD. For example, I sometimes loan my rig (containing a Stiletto 135 and a Cypres) to videographers when we are doing drop-and-run tandem loads.
However, I don't loan my other rig (containing a docile 150) because it does not contain an AAD.

[Conundrum 1]

Chances of someone needing/wanting/asking to borrow my gear are slim, I think Rosa is the only person who could could fit into my stuff its so small, but if someone were to ask, if I knew and trusted them, I'd have no problem letting them jump my gear.

[d604 0]

Quote

And I guess I see it that if someone doesn't trust my pack jobs on my own gear, or the packer that's been packing it for me since I got my stuff, then people don't have to borrow my stuff, simple as that.

It's got nothing to do with parachutes malfunctioning, etc. It has to do with the pilot auguring into the ground with it and the possible back lash of crap that can come from family, etc. letting whoever jump my gear.

Plus CSPA BSR number one states:
No parachutist shall engage in parachuting activities or use parachuting equipment unless trained and endorsed, if required, for the same.

There are endorsements and training in the CSPA program but I do not have a program for my gear.

It's not worth the chance that the borrower or their family could sue me if they get hurt. It's a long shot but why would I want the possibility to have to go to court to defend myself; win or lose it costs me money.

Sean

CSPA ratings C1, C2, IA, IB, QE, RA, and EJR

[ACMESkydiver 0]

You're right...and maybe someday I'll be proven a fool for being trusting, but for now, I will loan my gear when the opportunity arises.

Who knows, some day we may have to come out with signed waivers to let people borrow a rig. That'd be a shame.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[tbrown 26]

I'm sitting the summer out with an injury, so I'm not using my rig at all. I offered to lend it to a good friend, but my harness is built for an extra tall person, so no matter how he tightened the leg straps they still hung halfway to his knees. So I loaned him my main canopy instead, which he packs in his older rig. It's just a Spectre, but he's just returned to the sport after many years and had never jumped a ZP canopy, so he's pretty excited about it.

The gear nowadays is a lot more standardized than it used to be. Regardless of the brand name, the BOC, cutaway and reserve handles are in basically the same places. It wasn't always so. Back in the seventies, when there was a lot of experimentation going on, different makes and models of rigs could be VERY different. I once loaned my rig to a guy who couldn't have screwed up worse if he tried. He finally got the reserve opened below 100 ft. I had worst feeling in my gut as I watched him. I was sure he was going in. After that I stopped lending my rig out to anyone. But now, with the new rigs - and Cypres - I'll lend it to people I know & trust, if they're tall enough.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !