fcajump

good point Derek, the problem is, if the rig is considered "legal" to jump, someone (possibly other than the owner) could incorrectly assume that all components are currently airworthy using the aircraft analogy, if there were a means to tag the CYPRES "out of service", such that it could be ensured that the CYPRES would not be switched on and that the user was properly informed that the AAD was out of service, it would probably be OK to jump the rig - common practice with certain non-essential aircraft instruments, not sure if it is practical with a rig.... I suspect your point is one of the reasons that a lot of riggers feel uneasy about packing a rig when the CYPRES is not good for the entire repack cycle Cliff (Thanks Cliff) Maybe SSK could develope a removable "inop" sticker with date field that would go over the control unit sleave? Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Ditto: Sparky. If the old batteries won't last 120 days, they come out. If the unit won't last 120 days, it comes out. In my mind, the unit dies at 12 years. The +/- 3 mo. is simply to let you have all of the 12 years. DO NOT rely on a modified pack data card to make up for shortcomings of the gear. And for us in the US at least on tandem rigs this is spelled out as a no-no in the newest FAR's. Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I have had this occur when picking up my canopy (standard large rings on Vector II w/ factory risers). I would suggest that it can happen on ANY rig with ANY size/type ring. This can be caught when: Packing, Before putting it on After putting it on (self-gear check) Pre-boarding pin^H^H^H gear check Pre-exit gear check (not directed at you specifically as you did catch it, but ...) PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE!!! To your own rig, and to the rigs around you. I am constantly checking my gear and scanning rigs around me. Yea, I might miss something, but its harder for a problem to go unnoticed when there are 20 pairs of eyes scanning around. Lets be careful out there! PS - and you young'ins out there... If you see something strange on my rig, ASK!! (the earlier, the better) We'll check it together and if all is well, we'll discuss it in depth once we are back on the ground... but maybe you're seeing something that IS wrong. And I for one want to hear about it! Blue ones, Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Strong puts clear shrink-tube on theirs... which is great for avoiding side-load... Unfortunately to check the link torque, you have to cut them off. J Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Been there, seen it. BTW - in discussing a very old Javelin with Sunpath and (if I remember correctly) it was mentioned that the factory DOES NOT PERMIT the removal of RSLs from Javelins. They consider the RSL to be part of the TSO'ed system and is required on all systems on which they were originally installed. (Though they are not required to be connected to the Main risers... jumper's choice at that point...) Just what I remember, but if you see it, call them... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

This is why (I understand) PD requires their reserves to be recertified after a certain number of deployments (less than the repack/recert count)... Because each flight takes a (small) toll on the fabric. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

General thoughts... from your description it sounds like you kept your head, delt with what you were given and fought it all the way down... Good for you!! (I've had gravel dug out of a knee after a similar landing... heal well/soon.) Several thoughts: Main - even with your remaining brake unstowed it can place more drag than one completely broken. However, when you get it back in the air check to see if the "full flight" is really "full". Generally, the brake line should just slightly bow back in the wind and the canopy tail should not be distorted. See what you see and discuss it with your rigger as it applies to your particular canopy. Reserve - First thought is an uneven leg strap can cause this behaviour. If you have an unexplained turn and have the opportunity, check to ensure your leg straps are even and that you are sitting square in the harness. Secondly, it could have a trim issue (which a rigger can check when he verifies that your Dash-M had the service bulletin work done.) Lastly, used canopies can be GREAT. But they also could have previously been wet or over stressed. Either of these could change the flight charactoristics of the canopy. I would suggest a complete checkout of the entire gear (more than might be done on a routine AIR). Just my $.02, worth exactly what you pair for it Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

A H&P is deploying just as you pass the tail. Any longer and it would be a stable delay.

Worst ankle twist I ever had happened when I was getting my TI rating. Oh... the jumps went fine, every landing was spot-on and gentle... Twisted the sh!t out of my left ankle when I missed the last step while carrying my cooler down the steps from my room at the hotel. "See folks, he can nail a drougeless triple back flip, drouge-track and open on time after having his goggles pull off during the exit, and he kills himself on those high-risk stairs." Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

While I have installed them, I have not actually seen them fail, so this is my speculation on how they fail... It is my guess that they would fail all at once and leave little room for any lines in the group to remain attached to the riser. It is possible that they could suffer a strand break that would be visible as a slight lengthening of the loop (think about the rope your hero is swinging on during the escape schene of your favorate adventure) but I doubt it would be that forgiving. Anyone actually experience this wish to speak up? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

My recollection is that they are more difficult to loosen in all situations. All things have their good and bad points... you might try them, but be VERY aware of your EP's and how this (or any equipment change) affects them. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I have seen one individual with a friction "aide" available as a retrofit to most leg strap hardware. Called "RECTANGULAR FRICTION LOCK" (Paragear Item: H345) I tried them on my last rig for a while and they did keep things from sliding. While I have not heard anything against them, I would be curious if the old timers here have anything negative to say about them... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

And who said he was overweight? I know several people that are very fit and over 200... I say everyone should wear weights and larger rigs until they have the same exit weight as the largest, just like they do with jockies!! JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

You do, a complete redundent parachute... its called the reserve. Beyond that, there are still some single points of failure in the system... such as the harness. This is why many of us are a bit anal when it comes to the condition of the harness. I strongly recommend that everyone learn how to inspect their gear. And stop depending on the packers to do it when the pack your main... because (generally) they don't (no offence). This particular problem could be (as others have said) either too loose or too tight (broken barrel). The trick is to check them, mark them, cover them with a protector that also keeps the barrel from turning and then use some supertack to keep the protector from running up the lines. Additionaly, PD's reserve manual instructs a specific torque and the use of both thread lock and a tell-tale on hard links. PS - BTW - old problem that we should not forget... when we discuss hard links, most of us mean Rapide (French) brand links ONLY. Other brands have let down their owners in the past. Politically some in the US might have "freedom fries" but I will continue to trust the French when it comes to good connector links!! As to softlinks - I use a set on my main and like them, but they have their own failure and maintenance issues... LEARN YOUR GEAR!!! JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

All belts on and helmets secured until 1500' Now, with the slack I have seen in the belts, I am unsure how much protection they will provide, but at least the last person in the plane won't be likely to fly to the front (Otter). And when we had a smaller plane were weight was a serious concern EVERYONE weighed in with full gear. Of course this as a DZ that had a twin go off the end of the runway and burn. With belts on, the worst long-term injury was a severed back (I think this is correct), and that individual helps set the safety standards to this day (from his wheel-chair) . The alternate outcome could have been MUCH worse... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

When I was a student (1990-1) and did not know better, I wondered this myself... I especially wondered about this as I was expected to return it packed... and as I had been "signed off to pack my own rig" the supervision included the notion that there was a Rigger around somewhere (in the air?). Since then, the US rules on what "under direct supervision" means have been clarified, but I don't know how well YOUR DZ supervises the last person (people?) who packed the rig you are using... So this comes down to assessing your local DZ's practices and doing what makes you comfortable. I still occasionally drag out a packjob if I am not sure about it, even if I packed it! Blue Skies and clean deployments, Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Yeah. I'd rather choose a pilot who has crash some planes before. Its like landing with retractable gear up... there are those that have and those that will. Those thinking jumpers that have had the sh!t scared out of them are less likely to do that again and tend to look at everything more carefully. I know very few long-time jumpers that have not come down at least once shaking in their boots trying to figure out how they screwed up. Of course, there are those who blindly have close calls and don't think about all aspects of the situation... but it does not sound like this gent is one of them. BLUE ONES, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

The lessons you've picked up are harsh... but so are mistakes in this sport. Remember to have fun too! The first long-term lesson you've learned is the most important: Review what happened, Ask questions from (hopefully) knowledgeable jumpers, Listen to their advice and think about the different answers to better prepare for next time. I would rather jump with a thinking partner than one who has never before made any mistakes... Blue Skies, Jim

The BEST thing you can do to be safe is learn from it (why you are here). From my read of things, yes you made a couple mistakes (that we've ALL made): 1. Complacent - there are stages where it is common, and you are there my friend. It is better to sharpen you skills and reset your focus than have something scare you straight. Hopefully this will be the thing to do it. 2. Jumping while not 100% - (comes from #1) Its like packing... 100% is not necessary, but knowing whether or not you should be jumping on a given day will come from experience... Sounds like you just found out what is "too tired" 3. Unobservant about LZ conditions (comes from #1 & #2) - Ok, been there - done that... don't forget next time. 4. 1,2&3 lead to 3 poor options... you made the call based on things we can't see and it worked, so it worked. Hard to second-guess you, but... given what you described, I would suggest that the corn field holds the least danger... Corn field - embarising, paper-type cuts, don't flare too high, muddy soil, disentangling the canopy and finding your way out... anoying, but no more. Opposing traffic - IFF you know how many other canopies, you know where they are, you know what they are going to do, you know how to keep from meeting until after landing... ok... maybe. If ANY of this is in doubt, this runs the risk of 100' entaglement and two folks decending without any open canopy... bad juju. Next to path / road - With 1000 jumps, my mid-performance canopy, PERSONAL knowledge of the path, road, ditches, fences and possible power/phone lines... maybe I would (and maybe I would regret it). Without KNOWING what was there, next to roads is generally a bad idea for the above concerns.* Not knowing your LZ, "parallel to the runway" might be a very good idea given obsticles, LZ shape and student's propensity to be low over runways when trying to come in at an angle. This is how we learn the difference between which way I am facing vs which way I am going. Crabbing is fun. However I would also review crosswind plf's. *Inadvertantly landing on the road can be very bad... I recall one student fatality that occured after a safe landing... the truck did not stop in time. Good luck in learning and jumping safe. Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Well of course, but OUR DZ practiced this while the pickup was going 20mph down the taxiway to simulate a bad downwind landing. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

--------------------------------------- F=m * a is one side of the equation. Here is the other side: F = c * A * v^2 where A is the area of the canopy V is the speed c is a coefficient m * a = c * A * v ^ 2 As you see lager acceleration/deceleration belongs to bigger mass,because forces in this system does not depend on the mass of the system. c is deppending on the shape, air desity.... A the area of the canopy is constant V is the deployment speed --------------------------------- I will agree with your initial equations, however... 1. c and A will be constantly changing during the deployment 2. v (velocity at deployment) is a function of: m (mass) c2 (shape, air density of freefalling body prior to deployment), and A2 (the freefalling body's area) Finally, it is common practice in modern science to take the theoretical equations and place them in the lab for validation. As we have both test results and actual experiences that seem to show that (in some combinations) overloaded and/or overspeeded canopes (and harnesses) have/will fail due to excessive stress, it seems that the mathmatical model is itself flawed. As a heavier jumpers, who is a self-proclaimed chicken-sh!t, I will heed the warnings of the manufacturers and testers who have more practical experience with this stuff than I. (Matter of fact, this is why I retired a reserve...) To me, failure of a reserve system (including harness) because someone wanted to second guess the test results is unacceptable. If you want to be a test jumper or designer, go for it, but understand that is what you are doing when you go outside the placarded limits. Just my rant. Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

As Bill Booth is a known member here, and one who tests things extensively... I wonder if he would care to comment on this issue and whether he would approve the addition of webbing to the leg straps on a Vector? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I teach for free (when/as time permits). Last time I taught it was at the jumper's house with both my gear and his, instructing both him and his roommate... Again free, but when he offered me a nice tip for the 3-4 hours I had spent, I quickly promised him that it his money would disappear into thin air asap... and it did that weekend in the form of a couple lifts to 13,500' (PS - just in case anyone thinks I pulled a fast one to get my gear packed... my rig started packed and ended the night unpacked... I like to use it for packing demo's as every cell and stab are different a color from their neighbors and the center is a unique color... much easier to demo on than a mono-color.) Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Only two actuals I know of beyond the PD and Golden Knight reports... Glenn Bangs report to the PIA Symposium of his two-out / instant downplane a last year (happened to him at the local DZ while the rest of us were in a seminar on what to do if you have two out... guess he shouldn't have been playing hookie... ) My own two-out during an airshow... long story short had a bumpy bi-plane (big canopies) that were going to get me into power-line trouble. Chose to chop (main in front), and in my case it cleared just fine. I recommend reading BOTH reports, consider the relative and absolute sizes of canopies used in the testing and think through your options with your specific canopies. Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

So what does USPA say about very low experience jumpers? Very Low Experience jumpers would fall under a section called "students". See everything is a matter of perspective and where you place the emphisas. Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...