crutch

Tammie, her flying around us while we are doing tandems is pretty impressive! I missed Wayne Saturday as I was jumping out in Williston that day. I will have to catch up with him next week. blue skies, art

But you let her leave me in that suit way too long, I think I lost three or four pounds! blue skies, art

The difference is you are a woman, human nature (men thinking with the wrong head) will get you invited on more jumps than your male counterpart. Everyone can argue it but it is true. Now, back to the question at hand, which is basically, who is going to step up to the plate and tell this guy he needs help! Can't tell you how many times I have been through this one. The best solution is the one Dave suggested, but someone needs to make sure they actually work with him. I have seen over the years how people get ostrichized after a couple of screw-ups, sometimes it is the person fault (too mouthy, no one wants to deal with it) or the person just really isn't that good and doesn't jump enough to resolve it. So make sure we as up jumpers work with some of the other jumpers, and be honest during the debreifs. Low time jumpers take heed and realize, sometimes up jumpers want to do jumps that are above your skill level and don't take it personal. blue skies, art

Let them help you fly it around down to maybe 300' to 500', then you finish the job. The only person thta i have hurt doing a tandem, got the toggles flared too early, we floated and I couldn't get under her enough to save her. The problem with some of the newer canopies and the landing technique, is that is is not a s simple as flre, flare, flare anymore. So do you want to risk hurting the passenger and/or yourself so you may get that 0ne-in-twenty student to come back? I think a few broken limbs does more damage than a couple extra "fulfilled" students! blue skies, art

Remster got this one right all the way. There seems to me that there was no plan here. If there was a plan, it seems you were never comfortable with it anyhow. You needed to take some control over the situation! If you are uncomfortable with breaking off at 3000' (you should be with 60 jumps) you should have said so. If you just wanted to do a solo jump. instead of jumping with this person, you should have said so. This goes for all skydivers, in all disciplines, if you are uncomfortable with the plan, speak up before someone gets hurt. You were lucky this time, don't get yourself into a situation like this again, could be your last! blue skies, art

We have a similar effect when jumping into the stadium if there are any winds at all. I personally like to front riser down through it so I have a little extra speed, but as you have found out, the toggles don't have the desired effect through the windshear. Then again, we jump larger canopies into the stadium (the grass is a lot softer too) to try and protect ourselves as much as possible (loading 1:1 or less). I do agree with Dave though, my Sigma canopy tends to fly through the shears better than the other canopies I jump. Why, hell beats me, it just does. blue skies, art

Skydive Palatka, best small DZ in Florida! Two cessnas during the summer months, otter or a caravan during the winter. Winnie always provides lunch, (even been known to send the plane up with just two people). Almost every discipline is represented. And mom keeps the cleanest bathrooms I have ever seen at a DZ. Oh yeah, we always have a cold beer at the end of the day or you can jump into the local bar and the owner will give you one. blue skies, art

Wayne, have Gary and Dave said anything to you about what you are doing wrong? The other thing is during the summer landing amongst the trees there all kinds of little eddies are being created by the thermals. Landing there when there is a definite breeze is much easier than no wind days with lots of thermal activity. Ask big Dave about the canopy course he took in Deland, his landings drasticly improved when he got done with it, heck I haven't seen him crash since. blue skies, art

With the way the Coast Guard lands canopies, are you sure they will let you jump out there? Hey we are going to miss you! Keep in touch, next time I do a tri out that way, I will try and look you up! Blue Skies, Art blue skies, art

Very good set of rules! Years ago, I do believe yes, beer drinking and skydiving went hand in hand. Hell, where I started jumping the jumpmasters were graded not by their abililities, but by how many beers were in the fridge at the end of the day. We have evolved though and there is a lot less drinking and skydiving (at the same time) which has severly curtailed the amount of beer consumed at the DZ. I can remember a $100 bar bill (and a bottle of Captain Morgan's for the rigger) 19 years ago after my first reserve ride, first total, first main/reserve entanglement (all on one jump). I really think the tradition started as a way to celebrate the fact that the man upstairs wasn't ready for us! That being said, I am all for the case of sodas, the root beer floats sound even better. blue skies, art

Yea, my stupid brother got us into a fight with a guy weilding a knife. We were lucky, couple minor cuts on our arms before we got the situation under control. Lesson learned, don't go out drinking with a stupid brother! blue skies, art

Very nice Michael! blue skies, art

We have had the same experience with this guy. My wife got very upset with him as their web site had said fun jumpers were welcome. When we tried to go there, he had already changed mind. blue skies, art

What Ron says.....and to add to that, these owners need to get a life. If drop zone A has no financial ties to you (you work full time for them, you would leave them in a bind, etc.) I would definitely opt for drop zone B. We have this same situation down here in Florida with videomen, instructors and pilots. The drop zone owners though are much more forgivng about people going to other dz's when your "home" dz may not be the "happeng" place on a particular weekend. blue skies, art

When I was doing some promo work with a large costume on this happened to me. I ended up very lucky, because of the costume I had to do everything by feel, with some large gloves on. Even after the reserve deployed, I had to undo the three rings by hand because of the angles. blue skies, art

I have got so many that I believe the man upstairs just doesn't want me! The guy downstairs just thinks I am too stupid to take the time and come and get me! If some of ya'll are in Palatka for the Hog Flop, just let Bobby start celebrating my birthday, a few drinks later ya'll will hear some really good ones! blue skies, art

Your not the guy I chewed out in front of his girlfriend, are you? blue skies, art

They don't have to; they do if they can do it safely. But I'm not talking about saving someone by putting yourself at risk. This is what I am talking about....if you try to convince him it is a bad idea and he goes and does it anyway, is your conscience clear? The worse problem happens when he survives and comes back with a lot of fish. Our broken skydiver, I would venture to bet wasn't on his first jump with that canopy and the 20# of lead and on top of that was being advised by an "expert". The problem is the inherent nature of the sport causes it to attract people with large egos that are willing to push the envelope. Sometimes, somes good things come out of it (square parachutes,freeflying, skysurfing, tandems etc.). Other times people get hurt and even die. Drawing the line becomes more and more difficult all the time as the sport becomes more and more mainstream. We start to lose respect for how dangerous it really is. We need to spread the word when a drop zone is letting people hurt themselves and make sure we steer potential customers elsewhere, that is how you change things. We are seeing more and more drop zones that don't want to deal with experienced jumpers for this very reason. They are being advised not to go out, but do it anyway. Who pays, you and I. To tell you the truth, if I were to ever start a drop zone, I would be hard pressed to let any skydiver I didn't personally know or teach jump there. So through my ranting and raving we are right back to where we started, what do you do? I can see both sides, but that fine line between morally right and wrong is tough. Being able to sleep at night when someone I taught does something stupid is hard. It is hard because I failed to teach my student respect for the sport while having fun! blue skies, art

I think the problem with the swooping thing is that we only glamorize the "good" swoops. It is like the guys doing the stunts with motorcycles on TV. The no-hand landings, backflips and whatever. What never gets put out there is that very few of those guys can pass through a metal detector. We make a big point of all the inexperienced jumpers getting hurt swooping, but very little of the "known" swoopers and their injuries. I know that when I finally broke a bone, it definitely had an effect at our small drop zone. People began to realize that you can get hurt landing the way he/she does even at that experience level. blue skies, art

But this is different, the woman in this scenario needs help and problably from her screams and body language is asking for help. When someone jumps a canopy that may be near the edge of their skill level, if they don't heed your advice, are you responsibile. They are not asking for help? To me the mugging scenario campared to the jumping scene is more like this...A person goes out fishing in a small boat when small craft advisories have been posted. They get themselves in over their head and into a dangerous situation, why does the Coast Guard have to risk themselves to save this person from their on stupidity? And in this country, if the family finds out that the Coast Guard was somehow delayed in going to the rescue, some lawyer will actually sue the boat manufacturer, the engine manufacturer and somehow tie in a half-dozen other people with money. But, somehow the stupid idiot that went out in small-craft advisory weather is not at fault? I know some people are going to be mad about this, but as a S&TA, we are the Coast Guard in the above scenario. We can put out all the warnings, the jumpers still do stupid things, then we end up risking ourselves to save them afterwards. There is a point where you say, the warnings are there, if you want to go out that bad, well we are not going to save you! blue skies, art

I have had some of the best yell at me, Tom Piras in particular, it was harsh, but I knew I deserved it! The thing to remember is 99% of the time they are just frustrated at seeing someone they cared for having been killed by doing something really stupid! Then to see someone else repeat the same scenario, not a good mixture. blue skies, art

Yes, I workout. If you jump in Paltaka on Sunday mornings you can usaully see me riding up on my bike around 10:00. Then of course I am training for an Ironman length triathlon in the fall, so most of my spare time is spent doing some type of exercise. It does help after doing five to ten tandems (packing them all myself), at the end of the day I can make it home without fallinf asleep at the wheel. blue skies, art

I love reading threads like this! So many differing opinons on something that is so cut and dry! I of course voted no, not that morally I do have a problem selling a small canopy to someone who shouldn't be jumping it. I have one sitting on the shelf in my closet. But, when did we in this sport decide we were not going to accept responsibilty for our actions. This of course includes all of us from DZO's, instructors and all the fun jumpers out there. We have let people jump smaller canopies here, what I mean is smaller than a lot of these threads believed possible. Some of theses people got hurt somewhere down the line also. When did it become someone besides the operator's responsibilty to take credit for their own actions. We all see an accident and know the person who got hurt was at fault, do we go out and form a lynch mob hunting done anyone remotely involved in the jump (other than the jumper of course, that is what is going on here). Or do we call a spade a spade and say hey dude you really screwed up and learn from it. Yes, young skydivers (jump # young) are getting hurt jumping high-performance canopies, but there are a lot of experienced people getting hury under them also. Where do you draw the line? Ultimately, the person under the parachute has to decide. We have finally gotten to the point in skydiving where people are in the sport that are in over their heads by making the equipment so safe, yet we keep hurting ourselves. Where are you going to draw the line? We have jumped at Jax Beach (moved the dropzone there for the day) on the Fourth the last few years. It is always a concern about who gets to jump and who doesn't. Is it the younger jumpers endangering the crowds of people at the beach. Nope, it has been an AFF instuctor, two very expereinced cameramen (not wearing cameras at the time) and another jumper with over a thousand jumps. So how are we suppose to weed out the potential hazards? I know I am ranting and the people who know me are laughing, but the responsibility of what to jump, where to jump and how to conduct yourself on the jumper relies with the jumper, not the rest of us! blue skies, art

I think he is talking about vectors...you can deploy the reserve by simply grabbing the RSL and pulling it up and away from you. (I have done this on the ground and it does work!) blue skies, art

I am going to throw my two-cents into this argument and being an S&TA some of all of this really sinks home. One, is it seems this "kid" (not physical age, but skydiving age) was being tutored by one of the local "gods". It seems that even through all of this instruction, he made some bad decisions and hurt himself. Here is the problem, these "gods" are bringing an exceptional amount of added business to the DZO (which in California and Florida means the other DZ is just as easily accessible fifteen minutes away). The "god" is also respected by the DZO to be doing the right thing, he is also vouching for the guy to the DZO. So, blaming the DZO for this without thinking about all the other factors is wrong. The one the blame and wrong doing should be directed towards is the "god". How do you change this? Not allowing someone to jump becomes a very sticky situation, one I personally hate to deal with, but sometimes have to. We as skydivers need to spread the word in the community that this "god" is not all he is cut out to be. The damage in reputation needs to be put on his shoulders, not the S&TA's or the DZO's. There are plenty of people in the sport that this has happened to, look around you will see them living in the tents or old school buses at the DZ. They use to be king, but word got out that they were full of BS. Finally and for God's sake most importantly, if you are a "god" you need to respect the status that has been given to you. If you see someone who is a self-annointed "god" you need to steer people away from them. The real "gods" of this sport, never call themselves that, they are just lucky!(and they will tell you that). But, the "gods" need to shoulder their responsibility and dispense their knowledge and experience wisely! One more thing, we really need to think about what all these smaller canopies are for and realize there is a time and place for them, it is not on every jump. I personally have a 135, why, because we don't have an unlimited amount of outs at our DZ. Squeezing anything smaller into a clearing on a bad spot is an accident waiting to happen. This needs to be explained to the jumpers wanting to "downsize." Just some food for thought! By the way, if you have ever seen me land, a 135 can put on a helluva a swoop and still land crossways on the street in Jax Beach! blue skies, art