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mpd510

Stiletto question

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I'm currently jumping a Sabre 2 150 1.4WL with 100 jumps. 100 or so jumps on a Sabre 2 170 and 200 jumps on a Sabre 2 190 before that. I've had professional advanced canopy coaching for swooping and I'm very current with 400 jumps in the last year.

I'm thinking of a Stiletto 150 for my next canopy. Thoughts? Concerns?

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it's not really the best choice if you want to go down the swooping path... short recovery arc and all...

probably better off trying a Crossfire2 or Nitron if you're looking for a performance increase from a Sabre2 without going completely bonkers
NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

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Seems by the book, only changing one variable. Wing loading and canopy choice seem appropriate for jump numbers and are in line with Brian Germain's commandments. As always, test jump if you can.

Albeit never having jumped a stiletto, I'd like to regurgitate the opinion that Stilettos allegedly have short recovery arcs.

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I went from a Safire2 to a same sized Stiletto for about 100 jumps. Two cutaways and an opening so bad it put me in the ER. I'm on a Fusion now (same size again) and am much happier and having better luck getting performance out with canopy coaching. Also, no cutaways or chest tubes.

The Stiletto serves its purpose (toggle whipping) but it's not the best canopy to really learn to fly. It glides well, is fun to fly, and has a ton of flare but you pay for it with the openings and ultra high front riser pressure/short recovery arc. The Nitron/Nitro is similar in responsiveness but with a longer recovery arc, similar flare, and much better openings. I've never jumped a Crossfire2 but I can't find anyone who doesn't think it's awesome.

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I've put a few jumps on a Stiletto 135 and I didn't have any bad openings on it, I found it pretty responsive but the front risers were pretty heavy.

I have no doubt that you could swoop it but in my humble opinion the only reason for getting a Stiletto over a Crossfire 2 is that you can pick one up second hand for half the price.

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HUPRA

I've put a few jumps on a Stiletto 135 and I didn't have any bad openings on it, I found it pretty responsive but the front risers were pretty heavy.

I have no doubt that you could swoop it but in my humble opinion the only reason for getting a Stiletto over a Crossfire 2 is that you can pick one up second hand for half the price.



I have over 1000 jumps on a 135 Stiletto. it's a great canopy never had a hard opening, and only once has it spun up and that was me not the canopy.
However if your plan is to continue down the path of High Performance. I would NOT buy a Stiletto.

I would stay on the canopy you now have and put A LOT more jumps on it. and jump it until you can get nothing more from it. then put on some weights and do a few more.
Then go buy a Katana:)
But be the swooper you want to be on the Sabre 2 before you get the Kat. Kat should not be used to learn how to swoop.



Seriously 100 jumps on the Sabre2 at 1.4 WL is fuck all, there is no way in the world you have flown the shit out of it.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Have you talked to your Canopy Piloting Coach about your next canopy? I would do that first, because he knows how you fly and land your canopy. Here in the forums we have no idea.

Did you use your current canopy in your Canopy Piloting Course?

What kind of approach do you use (e.g. front riser 90)?
Arrive Safely

John

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Quote

I'm thinking of a Stiletto 150 for my next canopy



Why? That's the question you need to answer first, before we can really comment. What was your reasoning behind that choice?

The Stiletto is a great canopy provided your goals are in line with the capabilities of the canopy.

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Stick with the Sabre2. I started learning how to swoop on a SA150 and have progressively getting smaller. I'm on a SA120 now and it's night and day from the 150. So much more power, so much more of a swooper, and just more fun to fly overall. Like everyone else has chimed in, of you're looking to learn to swoop, the stiletto isn't the right tool for the job.

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Stiletto is an awesome canopy for *casual* swooping, a nice smooth carving turn can produce very nice swoops and a mad giggle at the end of the swoop where it produces tons of shut down in no wind.

it is NOT for ripping a hard 270 and out swooping all your friends.
The recovery arc is really short compared to the more modern swooping canopy's and your just too close to the ground for my idea of a safe swoop - heh, like swooping Is safe.... dumbest thing I have ever loved doing :)
I have app 1500 jumps on stiletto's from 1.3 - 1.8 wingload and still love them - they are insanely responsive - I only found one model of canopy that was even more responsive.
the openings are very dependent on your body position, drop a shoulder and spend a while kicking out of the line twists you produce... any canopy will do this however I found the stiletto to be ... more inclined to make you pay for getting lazy.

bad spots - no problem, even at a higher wingload you can go a looooong way.

On a hot day you can ride the thermals till your legs go numb - did it once, landing sucked as my legs didn't listen to what I was telling them to do...


even after singing some of its praises if your looking to learn swooping the stiletto isn't the canopy you want.

don't get in a hurry, demo, get different canopy's - there are a ton of fantastic choices these days.

the canopy Nazi in me wants to say your going too fast, but your current, you've had a nice progression so far without any huge changes and you have had coaching.

of course - I am biased :P I am going back to a stiletto as I don't ever anticipate hard core swooping ever again - 48 yrs old and slowing down a touch

Roy
They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

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The Stiletto is a great wing. The fact that they are still making them new says something. I have ~1200 jumps on Stielttos, and I loved it for what it was.

However, if you are wanting to learn to swoop, there are better tools for the job. The Stiletto came out at a time when swooping technique was very different than today. The flat glide/shallow recovery characteristics of that wing are not ideal for what you looking to do and can get you in trouble. Depending on why you are wanting another canopy, a downsize on the same wing (sabre 2) or eventually looking at something like a Katana might be a better path.

If you aren't looking to learn the modern swooping style and want something that is extremely responsive and fun to just tool around in...it's a great wing.

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This is a great thread. People are talking about the positives and negatives of the canopy, and offering advice about going down the right path based on personal goals....... instead of just pissing all over one canopy or another. Something must be in the water.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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The frame work of the stilleto is different then the sabre, I tought once I student flight technique, load up a few extra pounds on the canopy your
Jumping, not much,, a stilleto is faster by design, swept wing shape, as saber is a saber,, your flight profile if flying a smaller saber would still lean back on things you already know ,, giving yourself a setback in the parachute pilot mind,,, allowing a bigger jump, smaller saber to larger stilleto, you, ll feel what you've learned between the two,, while staying safe. If thats all spelled right.

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D22369


bad spots - no problem, even at a higher wingload you can go a looooong way

Roy



X2. I took a ST107 out the door from just over 8k(high as we could go in that airspace for a h&p) 23 miles from the DZ when we found a pilot willing to fly us up in very high winds. The other two took big student gear. 320 man-o-war's or whatever they are. And me on a 107. It was an interesting demonstration to say the least.

I learned to swoop on one before getting more competitive canopies but I had a completly different technique on it than later canopies. Didn't have as many options back then and I picked up the 107 cheap. Served me well getting to xbraced. Better options if that is the goal though.
That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

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Personally i would stick with your Sabre2 for now, maybe get a smaller one in the near future.
It's amazing what you'll learn skills wise by staying under the same canopy.
Patience pays off.

In addition i've Jumped Crossfire2's for 10 years and yes, i think they are awesome but with that said they also perform at their best when well loaded and from personal experience 1.8-2.1 IMO was the sweet spot.

As a experiment maybe demo a 149XF2 for 20 or so jumps.
.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

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Can you fly rears? Carve sideways? Use fronts? Really know your current canopy in and out? If not, learn everything then downsize. No reason to change canopies if you have not gotten everything out of your current one. Believe me , it will make you a better canopy pilot. Just my thoughts. Be safe .

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