Help with small girls!!

[garywainwright 0]

Hi,
A girl at my home DZ wants a new canopy. She currently jumps an original Sabre 97 and her exit weight is 115lbs (wl 1.2). She has just over a 1000 jumps with her last 500 on the 97 and is a conservative, safe canopy pilot. She probably makes about 100 jumps per year.
She very often makes no headway and even goes backwards on only moderatley windy days.
Do people think the Katana 83 would be too big a jump from a Sabre 97? This would put her at a 1.38 loading but on a much more high performance canopy (she does not swoop and has no intentions of swooping)
I thought of a custom Crossfire2 but there minimum recommended loading is 1.4 so she would have to get an 80 - also i don't think she would like the long openings?

Anyone out there in a similar position or know really light people?

cheers guys!

gary

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[Skyolker 0]

Quote

I thought of a custom Crossfire2 but there minimum recommended loading is 1.4 so she would have to get an 80 - also i don't think she would like the long openings?

Same with Katana. This is not a canopy for small wl. Best wl for these 2 canopies,I thing, 1.6-1.8. Crossfire 2 is a good choise because of it's openings and flying characteristics. Can,t say nothing about Katana, I didn't try this canopy.
You said, that she did about 100 jumps per jear. But high perfomance canopies piloting means regular jumps. Maybe, best choise for your friend would be Safire 2 with 1.4wl? Anyway, it depends on her adequacy.

[piisfish 135]

why not a custom Safire2 around 89 sq ft ??

Quote

Do people think the Katana 83 would be too big a jump from a Sabre 97? This would put her at a 1.38 loading but on a much more high performance canopy (she does not swoop and has no intentions of swooping)

why a Katana then ??

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Tonto 1]

That's more than a 15% downsize...

The PD site also has a very good article on why smaller canopies are higher performing, even at lower wingloads than larger canopies.

Many senior small jumpers (usually women) find themselves in this position where the only canopies available at the size they need are high performance canopies that recomend higher wingloadings. It's a gap in the market no one is prepaired to fill it seems. Try looking for 70 sq ft pilots, Sabre 2's or Safire 2's and you'll see what I mean...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[bob.dino 0]

Icarus claim to make a Safire2 in any size you desire. That said, I've never specifically asked them to make a 80sqft canopy...

Oh, and the Performance Designs article on wingloading is here.

[garywainwright 0]

As Tonto says an 80 canopy is more than a 15% downsize - the katana 83 is just within that. Also i've never been completely comfortable about 'custom' size canopies - how do they test each and every size?

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[bob.dino 0]

To the best of my knowledge, they don't. The way the reasoning was explained to me was that if a 140 and a 146 perform nicely, it's extremely unlikely that a 143 will misbehave.

However, I do know they're hesitant about going off either the high or low end of the tested scale for a given canopy type, as the effects are not as predictable. Which is why I don't know if they'll produce a Safire2 under 99sqft...

[gus 1]

Hi Gary,

If we're talking about who I think we are then she's very welcome to try my Crossfire2 99, I really don't think the light loading will create any actual safety issues. Maybe jump it with some lead to simulate the loading of a slightly smaller one?

Plus, if she got a smaller one, I could borrow it!

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[speedy 0]

Have you considered a Nitro/Nitron ? They certainly make them in small sizes and although they claim they are HP canopies, I don't think they are that HP.

I guess really light people are like feathers, it does not matter how small the canopy is, a feather will still go backwards in the wind

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[Mark4 0]

Gary, it might be worth giving Maddy @ Hinton/DZ Sports a call.

I know she has jumped various Crossfires and I think has experience on jumping them at under 1.4 wingloading.

[davelepka 4]

OK, how about a Stiletto 89? She'll like the openings, after jumping the original Sabre, the turns should be more fun, and she'll be able to float all afternoon if she wants to. It seems like it would be a reasonable downsize and planform switch. I might even know where there's a used one for sale.

[dharma1976 0]

just to be a jerk...I will help you with all the small girls you want help with just send em my way....

;)

katana = fast as hell turns from what I have seen form doing some light contact crew with one. (end cell to end cell 129 xfire vs 120 katana)

having flown crossfire2s at 1.4 and now 1.6 I notice they are very resposive and could definately still be twitchy, remember to tell her that she will also have to at least open her chest strap wide once she opened on either of these canopies to make it less twitchy to harness input (i have noticed this more heavily on my current one as the wingloading is more extreme, but it works on both)

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Skyflyer1 0]

seconded.

Jonathan

[garywainwright 0]

i did actually suggest a stiletto 89 to her but its very difficult to get one - occasionally see them on PDs website

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[grosfion 0]

I would have a look at the Nitro too. They built sizes from 150 - 78 sqft. I jumped a 135, 120 and 108, they have very nice openings and a great flare.

Hiper is also very helpful with demo canopies, I tested a Blade last year in Perris. The Nitro is not as aggressive as a Stiletto and a bit more fun than a Safire.

I think it is a very innovative canopy.

Maybe you can give it a try..

blues
Marcus

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Do people think the Katana 83 would be too big a jump from a Sabre 97?

Yes. Not because if size, but because of the way it flies.

Based on the fact she does just 100 skydives a a year the way it dives and opens are probably reasons she'd not like it.

Try an 89 Stiletto, or perhapse try another manufactuer.

Hiper makes an 88 Nitro
Precision makes smaller Fusions and other canopies.
Icarus makes the Safire.

Please not that it's just my opinion that the Katana is NOT the canopy for the casual sport jumper.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skyjuggler 0]

Lynn.....always causing trouble hey!!

Gary, guess your original comments are not on your knowledge of what to recommend but peoples opinions.

The smaller canopies are supposed to handle a little differently, so wingloads are not comparitive.

Lynn has alot of jumps and has been around jumping a while, so she should be aware of the different characteristics. Reckon explanations of most canopies and asking her what she wants from her wing might be best direction.

Let me know what yuo tell her, then I will tell her that it is all rubbish.
And for gods sakes don't involve Reynolds with her decision!!!!!!! She will be contacting Lugi for his 39 otherwise.

[crazydiver 0]

Quote

remember to tell her that she will also have to at least open her chest strap wide once she opened on either of these canopies to make it less twitchy to harness input (i have noticed this more heavily on my current one as the wingloading is more extreme, but it works on both)

Opening the chest strap will not make the canopy less suceptable to harness input. It will actually make it moreso. I think what you are thinking is that if the chest strap is opened wider on opening, the canopy is less likely to spin up and you have MORE control of hte canopy because the risers are spread further apart.

When the canopy is open, by spreading the risers apart, you are actually decreasing the distance between your laterals and your canopy because its a straighter line. when the chest rings are closer together, the main lift webs, the risers, and the lines create a more angled vector rather than a straighter line.

Anyway. Long story short, opening the chest strap helps the canopy fly freeer, more responsively, and if wider on opening, more control of your openings.

Cheers,
Travis

[headoverheels 291]

1.2 is not such a low wing loading that penetration should be a problem. If it is, then spotting or canopy control must be contributing, or maybe you have a smaller landing area with no "outs."

Is increased forward speed her main desire in a new canopy? The Katana is trimmed much steeper, so an 89 would give a lot more speed than she has now. It will also come out of the sky much faster, unless she rides rear risers or brakes. I've found the Katana openings to be less consistently on heading than my previous Stiletto. Nitro/nitron canopies are available in an 88, and are more on-heading. The Nitron flare is better than that of the Stiletto, but the Katana flare is better than either of those.

[RMURRAY 1]

I have a 92 sq ft Jonathan which was custom made for a sub-100 pound female back in the day. not the latest technology but higher performance than a Sabre1...

rm

[RMURRAY 1]

Quote

I have a 92 sq ft Jonathan which was custom made for a sub-100 pound female back in the day. not the latest technology but higher performance than a Sabre1...

rm

it is not mine but is available for her to try out...

rm

[diveout 0]

I vote 89 stiletto also, they're proven and there's a few of them out the for demo and/ or purchase

[Beverly 1]

I think there is a lot more to consider than just wingloading.

Is it a very windy DZ? Is that the reason she does not get much penetration into the wind?

I spent the most part of my first 1000 jumps at a wingloading of 1.0 or less. To me, discussing someone who does 100 jumps a year to be on a canopy the sizes you are discussing (80/85) is just looking for trouble.

If there is no desire to do high performance landings, then there is no real reason to be downsizing.
The need for a canopy will be to bring her safely to the ground.

A tiny canopy like that takes her into the danger zone.
Dunno, maybe I am just aware that girls are so much more conservative than guys under canopy.
I just don't want more girls to get hurt.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa

[DJL 232]

I second trying out a Nitro/Nitron. I've put my last 200 jumps on either a 150 or a 135 and am very happy with their performance both at high speed, landing in 1/2 brakes, and in turbulance.

Also, I think that light people should look at the hand they're dealt and just realize that maybe they should lower her wind limit.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[LoudDan 0]

You might think about keeping her under her current wing and having her wear a weight belt to gradually increase her wingloading to eventually equal what it would be under the smaller canopy she desires. This will let her adjust to a higher wing loading at a rate that she is comfortable with. (Emphasis on gradually here, start with maybe 10 lbs. and increase in 5 lbs increments every 50 jumps or as her comfort level allows)

I'm in the process of buying a velo 120 and have used this approach every time I've downsized since I was on a Sabre 2 190.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!