Downsizing keeps you Sharp!

[NewClearSports 0]

Ok, I know this statement will offend and upset many people and I'm really not trying to give the wrong message but I have to say what I believe. I want to here everybodys opinion on this, and I know most likely my opinion is the minority.
I believe downsizing is good to prevent bordom. I believe bordom under canopy makes for poor decision making and the taking of un-nessesary risks. The right amount of downsizing within the right amount of jumps keeps you sharp and on your toes. It makes you respect the wing above your head. I know this to be true for me, but everyone is different.
What do you all say out there??

[DutchSkyCam 0]

Even if you jump a familiar canopy for the 501st time, you have to be sharp...
I even dare saying @2000+ jumps, 700 of em loaded over 2 lbs/sq ft, I am sharper on my Velocity now than when I jumped a Manta 11 years ago.

The faster your canopy the more reflexive your response -to ANY situation- has to be, faster and more accurate. How do you train those reflexes if you don't give yourself the time to train 'em?
To respect your canopy you need a near accident (or a real one). You can also try to learn from mistakes others made.

OK, agree, there is a second killer... Complacency...
That mainly happens (my personal opinion) to people who have not had an accident for a while and start thinking they master the situation and nothing can happen to them anymore (in other words: They are not sharp anymore)...

Have you ever wondered why so many unexperienced skydivers were killed or injured while landing their parachutes?

Back to your statement:
While reducing your chance of complacency, your canopy piloting skills are likely not improving with the performance of your canopy. You may be sharp as a knife, but stil respond too slow or just respond in the wrong way.

Hope you agree.

Barry

Edit:
Just read your profile; It just seemed like a 100-"jump-wonder" question...
You jump a Velocity @600 jumps?
What is your wingload?
How did you downsize?
Ever had near misses?

Sorry, don't want to sound like a canopy nazi.

[alain 0]

when i downsized to 1.3+ at 80ish jumps i felt sharp like any other '100jumpswonder' but i was truely overhelmed (that was not a smart move i reckon). Now that i've put 450 jumps on that same canopy, i feel sharper than ever but now I am the pilote of that thing

I'll consider downsizing when I'll have all the items of the legendary billvon's tasklist mastered. let's be realistic. I don't wana be a whateverjumpswonder anymore

i agree with the 'close call' point: definately keeps your mind in place...

[skymick 0]

When I downsized to a 150 (WL 1.35) at 150 jumps it certainly helped me stay sharp, I put a lot of effort into being careful etc....then I started to get complacent, not that I was doing anything stupid, just wanted to have fun and didnt really think about what could go wrong. Now fast forward to jump 249...going good until i did an unintentional hook into the ground and frapped in hard and ended up with a broken back. Now that wasnt caused by trying to do a swoop or anything like that it was just a stupid split second dumb mistake which ended up causing me a lot of grief.

So are you saying once i started to get complacent I should of downsized further? What if I still frapped in? I would be a lot worse of right now!

I agree with you to an extent, I dont think downsizing with the right experience and training is a bad thing and it wlll keep you sharp but complacency will always creep back eventually if you allow it. Also even if you are pretty much on the ball under canopy with a high WL it still only takes that spilt second dumb mistake close to the ground which you would think you'd never do in a life time to seriously fuck you up.

Anyway back to jumping again VERY soon so it's all good hehe

[grega 0]

I think there are far less dangerous things that you can do under canopy to prevent boredom. Sure if you downsize you won't be bored, because you'll have to use all your concentration only to land that thing, but imo that is very dangerous, and not only for youserlf for the others too

Why don't you rather try doing all the things from billvon's list instead. or try swooping farther and farther by perfecting your technique. you can work on technique for much more then only 100 jumps. so it should keep you out of the boredom for a while.

it's same in the air. when you start learning everything is new and fun and you are far from bored. but when you master the basic skills of freeflying for example. it takes hundrends of jumps only to perfect one single move. You can call that boring or not but that's the way it goes.

The more you know (under canopy or anywhere else) the more it takes to learn something new.

You just have to have a goal and you won't get bored. But it's your call whether you want to get to that goal "fast and dangerous" or "slow and safe"...


p.s. I chose more like "fast and dangerous" in the past so don't really listen to me

"George just lucky i guess!"

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Downsizing to "keep on your toes?" That sounds pretty reckless to me. Someone just stated the obvious: unless you have fully mastered every aspect of your current canopy's flight potential, then it's pretty pointless to downsize. If you are already jumping a Velo, then you had better have your head on a swivel during your descent; I know mine is. I come out of the sky like a bomb as compared to "regular" traffic and it takes all my concentration to find my way to my perfect line without endangering myself or others in my path. I have never experienced complacency under a swoop main; I couldn't afford to.

Peace,
Chuck

[yarik 0]

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all the items of the legendary billvon's tasklist mastered.

I'm quite new here, could anyone please drop me a link to the above mentioned tasklist? Thanks.
==================

As to the main thread - downsizing will keep you sharp (or scared) for sure, but I personally disagry that downsizing can contribute to safety by any means... Not for me at least. Although NewClearSport was referring to

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The right amount of downsizing within the right amount of jumps

And this may help one to keep good progression in learning and consistently have a room for improvement. The only question now is to define what is that right amount?

[quade 3]

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I believe downsizing is good to prevent bordom.

So is adding extra bullets when playing Russian Roulette.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[hkf 0]

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and I know most likely my opinion is the minority.

Probably A Minority Of 1 !

[skydiveelis 0]

I don't know what are you trying to get to, but here is my case, started jumping in 95 I have 1000 + I went from a sabre 230 to a 190 to a 170 all this since 95 and now is when I'm downsizing to a 150 so lets see it took me 8 years to get to it, call me conservative, but I'm still in one piece and with a lot of knowledge on this canopies and what to do and not to do, been sharp or in your toes comes with experience no with the canopy.

________________________________________

[Treejumps 0]

You are right about one thing, that you are in the minority with you thinking. If you can't swoop to a stand up landing in a 5' circle, 10 out of 10 times, you still have plenty to learn and downsizing won't help you a bit. I'm a 2.4 on a 120 VX, and will never need to downsize again. Am I getting complacent? No. With only 700 jumps on that canopy I'm just now starting to really get everything out of it. Another couple thousand jumps and I'll still be getting more and more out of it. My next canopy will be a 135 Xaos 27 (if they ever respond to my requests for a demo). Will I be complacent under such a modestly loaded (2.0) canopy? Not chance, as it takes hundreds (at least 500) before you really know a caopy well. Your logic and reasoning are flawed, and will earn you a trip in the pretty van with flashing lights.

[murps2000 86]

***Your logic and reasoning are flawed, and will earn you a trip in the pretty van with flashing lights.

Nicely put, Mark. Forcing the wing loading issue to alleviate boredom? That's as logical as doing it to get that really cool, tiny container. Wait, this has to be a troll....

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Ok, I know this statement will offend and upset many people and I'm really not trying to give the wrong message but I have to say what I believe. I want to here everybodys opinion on this, and I know most likely my opinion is the minority.
I believe downsizing is good to prevent bordom. I believe bordom under canopy makes for poor decision making and the taking of un-nessesary risks. The right amount of downsizing within the right amount of jumps keeps you sharp and on your toes. It makes you respect the wing above your head. I know this to be true for me, but everyone is different.
What do you all say out there??

By your theory, I should be bored (600+ on current canopy) and therefore no longer sharp and should downsize. I don't think that is such a good idea.

Derek

[skygod7777 0]

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By your theory, I should be bored (600+ on current canopy) and therefore no longer sharp and should downsize. I don't think that is such a good idea.

come on, don't you want to get like a 50 by now.

and i don't know, i have over 300 or so jumps on my vx, and i'm thinking of upsizing (not thinking, just waiting to get the cash), i guess i must be crazy. haha.

later

[aneblett 0]

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As to the main thread - downsizing will keep you sharp (or scared) for sure, but I personally disagry that downsizing can contribute to safety by any means...

Unless I misunderstood his meaning he didn't say that it would contribute to safety. He did say that it would keep you sharp. I believe that they are not necessarily inclusive ideas.

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The only question now is to define what is that right amount?

ah grasshopper.. when you can answer that question then you will be readyto land the Cobalt 25

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[aneblett 0]

nice

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[NewClearSports 0]

Hi, I'm the guy that started this thread.
Let me explain why I think the way I do.
Let me talk about a different sport for a minute.
My Progression with Motorcycles.
At 3 yrs I got a Honda Z50
At 5 yrs I got a Suzuki RM 80 (Huge jump)
At 7 yrs I was riding my fathers RM 250. I couldn't even touch the ground, needed to start and stop in the ditch in front of my house. Not too many 7yr kids can ride a RM250
At 10 - 11 yrs I had a CR 125
From ages 12-16 I had the fastes Moto-X bike and ATV going. I think I got my 125 hp LT-500 when I was 14.
At 15 I got my 1st Street Bike Honda VR 500, didn't ride it leagal untill I was 16
At 17 I got a Suzuki GSXR 750 (Another Big Jump)
At 25 I got a Yamaha R1 Race Ready Superbike (I believe it to be about the fastest production bike ever)
I am now 29 and have never had a serious injury or accident on any bike, I have never broken a bone (Knock on Wood). I am proud father and I recently sold my R1 because I found myself getting board of it. Every ride seemed to end up in being chased by the police and I know at 250 - 300kms/hr if I am getting board, its time to give it up. I felt I was indangering myself because I cought myself getting distracted too often. Also my love for skydiving is now greater then even motorcycles.

Now the thing I don't agree with is that almost every skydiver says don't downsize untill you have utilized your current canopy to its full potential.

Well of all those bikes I have driven over the years I think maybe 2 or 3 I kept long enough to ride to its full potential. (The Z-50 and CR-125 and maybe the GSXR) But here is the thing. Now with the experience I have I can take any motorcycle, of any size, with any amount of power and ride it to mine and its potential. I have driven bikes 200 hp and still wanted more out of it.

So why is downsizing a canopy such a bad thing? I have been downsizing the last couple of years and have just fallen in love with canopy flight. I just dream about flying day after day. I can't wait to try a VX or Xaos. If I had the chance I would try a bunch of different canopys at various wing loadings and such. I'm sorry but I havn't found a canopy that I would be happy with for 500 or 1000 jumps. Even going back is sometime good for a change. It amazes me how I use to think my 135 heatwave was fast, but I go back to it after flying the Velocity 96 and it feels so docile.

Now here is the thing you must also understand. When I get one of these little rockets I make sure I open high on several jumps, do many hop and pops, plan my landing before getting in the plane. I jump at a small DZ compared to many of you. I often jump out of the Cessna so I know there won't be any traffic. If I were at a large busy US DZ like many of you, I would probably do things differently.

Anyway, again everyone is different. For me change helps me learn. I think change is good.

[jimoke 0]

hey dude,
your progression on motorcycles seems to span 22+ years.
your progression in canopies = when I was 7yo. I was on a suzuki Hyabusa.
you "only" have 600 jumps.....yeah yeah, I know , I have heard it before, people learn at different speeds. your margin for error is very small and the ground is just as hard as it ever was. Hopefully you will find some satisfaction in your present canopy, before you downsize yourself into the incidents forum.

The ground always, remembers where you are!

[Erroll 52]

Billvon's tasklist

[LouDiamond 1]

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For me change helps me learn. I think change is good

You would be smart to take the advise that was given here several times already. We're not talking motorcycles, we're talking about parachutes falling out of the sky, big difference. If change is what helps you learn then I think that an inevitable injury is what will help you learn...... the hard way. Be safe, not sorry. Use Bill's list to challenge yourself before you start going smaller.I think you will find yourself challenged if you do.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[ccowden 0]

Staying sharp is a mental choice. Be it with motorcycles or playing chess. If you let yourself become bored or complacent, then the problem is with you, and not with the size of the canopy. I agree that when you downsize you are forced to be sharp, but that should NEVER be a reason to STAY sharp. I can just hear someone saying-

"Man, I have really become bored with this canopy and I feel like I have lost my edge. I guess I will get a smaller, faster one to get me back up to speed."

If that doesn't sound like flawed thinking, you have issues.

When you downsize, you better be at the absolute top of your game and be the furthest from complacent you have ever been! And you better feel SHARP!! YOU are talking about doing the exact opposite.

This is a terrible idea to post and to even bring to light. You need to re-think the way you view high performance flight.

[Mixoligist 0]

NCS-

If your going to keep throwing those dice, I hope your tough. Everyone craps out.



Think ahead
B

..................................
Better you than me
..................................

[AndyMan 7]

I think there's a fundamental difference with motorcycles, which is simply that you don't need to use the power. You've got this thing called a throttle control, which you don't under a canopy.

Most advanced canopy pilots who go in do it in less then ideal circumstances, they go in while landing off, usually attemtping to land "straight in", with no turns to boost performance. They end up doing low turns out of what they think is necesity, rather then a desire to intentionally boost performance.

I think if your bikes automatically opened the throttle wide open each time you threw yourself into a corner, you would have a better understanding of why adding "power" under a canopy is so much riskier then adding "power" on a bike. On your bike, using that power is optional. Under a canopy, that "power" can come on when you least want it.

Under canopies, you need to be able to fly at full "power" in every circumstance, because often that "power" is added unintentionally in very tight situations.

Imagine riding your bike straight at a brick wall at high speed, but knowing you will only accelerate even faster if you try to turn. That's what flying a high performance canopy is like. You shouldn't get a high performance canopy until you've proven to yourself and others that a: you won't get yourself in the position of driving at the brick wall, and b: if you do find yourself there, you can turn out under power.

I think I've taken that analogy as far as it'll go.... about 3 paragraphs ago.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Treejumps 0]

What up Sean? Did I read correctly that you got an FX? Nice. Swoop on brotha!

[Treejumps 0]

Why bother posting and asking questions since you already know everything. I mean, wow, you can ride a motorcycle! BFD!. It won't help you a bit when you get in a corner, have to land off, get cut off, or hook it too low on a day that the air is hotter, colder, or more or less humid than you are used to. You've asked and you've been told that your logic and reasoning are flawed, but now that you've been told and you still won't listen, well that is just plain old stupid. When you bite it just, remember that you were told. BTW, I woulld be interested in seeing if you can even fly your canopy to even 50% of its potential. I doubt it.