Emmie 0 #1 January 10, 2002 I drove down to buy a used Tempo from a local rigger. We started talking about the rest of my gear. He asked me what I had for a container, so I told him that I just ordered a Wings.You should have seen the expression on his face. He looked at me like I had two heads. After his initial shock and disgust he said, "oooh we don't touch those". What's the deal? I've never heard anything but good things about Wings. That comment really pissed me off. If he never touched the container, how would he know that it was that it was as horrible as he said it was? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jayhfx 0 #2 January 10, 2002 don't freakin worry about it. Lots of people have opinions and thats all they are. You'll love the wings and almost every other rigger out there won't mind packing them at all. In fact my rigger loves em so much he went and got one too.peacejay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #3 January 10, 2002 Hee hee!Welcome to the wonderful world of skydivers and their opinions! Ask three skydivers a question about damn near anything, get three different answers and at least one assertion that everyone else is full of shit.Ignore him and take the lesson - obviously this guy doesn't want your business.pull and flare,lisa--life's a bitch.. and so am I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadDog 0 #4 January 10, 2002 I jump one, and I'm a rigger. I love mine.CorporateLawyerDave aka BadDog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #5 January 10, 2002 My next rig will be one and I'm almost a rigger. The split freebag scares some riggers and others like me fall in love with it. He might have also been afraid of the spring on the PC. The early Wings were weak, but the new ones have a much stronger spring that is probally the strongest I've packed.As for the packing, if he packs a Javelin he should beable to pack a Wings.PS.... Take your business else where if he is unwilling to help you.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #6 January 10, 2002 find a new rigger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallinWoman 1 #7 January 10, 2002 Emmie,There are way too many people out there who speak highly of the Wings container for you to be worried. Please find yourself a rigger who is knowledgeable about the Wings and other containers who is as happy about your choice as you are. He/She is out there somewhere!Blue skies, and congrats on the Wings,Anne"It's not the heights that I am afraid of, it is the impact that bothers me." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #8 January 10, 2002 Yep, time for a new rigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #9 January 10, 2002 Where is this guy coming from?Did a weak pilotchute on an early Wing scare him off?From what I understand, they solved that quality control problem years ago.I found packing Wings to be similar to a Javelin pack job, just slightly easier. If your rigger does not know how to pack a Javelin, tell him to get with the '80s! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rogue108 0 #10 January 10, 2002 I would find a new rigger. If a rigger is that closed minded how would he keep up with all the new information and gear. Its probably time for a change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #11 January 12, 2002 welcome to the politics of skydiving....i get letters from people all the time with comments like:>i never even thought of trying one of your canopies because "we are a pd dropzone"... but as circumstance would allow...i jumped a cobalt last week ...i was blown away, this is the best canopy i have ever jumped....imo the best way to overcome programmed brand discrimination is simply to educate. if people have the knowledge to judge a product for themselves they wont need to rely on bs opinions.ie. i am willing to bet there is not a better constructed canopy on the market than our cobalt. yet some people with one right infront of them will dismiss it as 'ah probably no good, ill stick with pd'. yet if they knew anything about canopies, a quick inspection should tell them at the very least they are looking at one perfect piece of sewing, if it flies as good as its constructed look out...same thing with wings. if you know what you are looking at, you should be intrigued.when you get someones opinion, make sure to get their logic behind it. do not be happy with 'i wont touch a wings'...that is a valueless opnion, find out why specifically, and see if their exlaination stands up to scrutiny.sincerely,dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #12 January 12, 2002 Great reply on the politics of rigging Dan. And of course everyone should always make their own decisions but "find out why specifically, and see if their exlaination stands up to scrutiny" is a great way to see what is good or bad about something.And I do agree with an, the Cobalt is one finely put together canopy. I've got holes in the bottom skin of mine and they have not grown, or anything in over 75 jumps since they were put there.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #13 January 12, 2002 QuoteI've got holes in the bottom skin of mine and they have not grown, or anything in over 75 jumps since they were put there.This is getting off the topic of this thread, but how did you get holes in the bottom of your canopy? Or maybe you put them there as 'packing vents'. -Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #14 January 13, 2002 Quotei jumped a cobalt last week ...i was blown away, this is the best canopy i have ever jumped....i am willing to bet there is not a better constructed canopy on the market than our cobalt.Sorry Dan, but just about every post of yours I read sounds like a sales pitch... Quoteprogrammed brand discrimination This is exactly what you provide!!! Biased company rhetoric for YOUR product ... I'm sure the Cobalt is a fine canopy, but I am growing weary of your never-ending drive to make us your next customers. It's all about free advertising, isn't it... IMHO... Frank Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #15 January 13, 2002 The holes were put there by the previous owner... He snagged a tree as he finished his swoop and it put 5-6 holes in the bottom skin that are the size of the ball point pin.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #16 January 13, 2002 Not to say that Cobalts are not put together well but in response to your statement:"And I do agree with an, the Cobalt is one finely put together canopy. I've got holes in the bottom skin of mine and they have not grown, or anything in over 75 jumps since they were put there."I think the fact that the holes have not spread would be more of a statement towards the quality of the raw material than the build quality.WilliamP.S. If atair ever comes out with a cross-braced canopy I would love to try it...........Dan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #17 January 13, 2002 hey frank,i answer posts sometimes personally as a skydiver and most times a canopy designer & principal of atair.i believe that my posts on a whole have a strong educational content.the knowledge i present was learned from actually practice, which is my work & passion, i cant separatethat. you are wrong in that i am not trying to make sales on this forum. i enjoy the educational aspects of this forum, that is challenge enough for me. i leave marketing to our sales force.sincerely,danatair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #18 January 14, 2002 I've just been watching from the sidelines...Dan, how do I get a demo Cobalt sent to me? How does the canopy differ from the Alpha?Thanks!Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #19 January 14, 2002 Well.... How I've got my last 2 demos is to complete the Demo form on Atair -USA's websire and Fax it in. From everything I've heard/read the main diff is the Cobalt is 18 panels of the topskin instean of the 9 on the Alphas. This allows for less distortion of the Airfoil.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #20 January 14, 2002 >This is exactly what you provide!!! Biased company rhetoric for YOUR product ...> I'm sure the Cobalt is a fine canopy, but I am growing weary of your never-ending> drive to make us your next customers. It's all about free advertising, isn't it... I have not seen Dan do too much of that - post ads that contain misleading or self-promoting material. Most of his posts contain statements like "i am willing to bet there is not a better constructed canopy on the market than our cobalt" - which he makes clear is his opinion, and he has a right to it. I think most people here understand that much of what appears here _is_ opinion, and understand that someone who manufactures or sells a certain brand of canopy is a) going to think it's a pretty good canopy, b) know a lot about it, and c) want them to buy it.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #21 January 14, 2002 Quote i enjoy the educational aspects of this forum, that is challenge enough for me. Dan I would never think of challenging your position as someone who is FAR more knowledgable than myself about the mechanics of canopy flight ... I enjoy the educational information I find here, too, but if it is tainted with "my product is best" then it loses some of it's value. I apologize if I read you wrong, but that is the way many of your posts come across to me... btw, I always suggest your canopies when skydivers at my DZ talk about getting new canopies/downsizing...Frank Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #22 January 14, 2002 One other thing....Dan probably wouldn't be doing the Attair thing if he DIDN'T think it was the best. When you have a lot of your time and energy wrapped up in something you usually don't think..."Well...that's good enough" "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milo 0 #23 January 15, 2002 Frank,This thread was about a rigger who was averse to packing a Wings container. The overwhelming consensus was that the rigger is mis-informed. Perhaps that rigger could learn from the people who best understand the advantages of the Wings container. Like the people who design and manufacture them. Or the people who design and manufacture other containers and are able to point out the flaws.I appreciate Dan's contributions to these forums. I am aware he has a vested interest in a particular brand. I am also aware he has a level of knowledge about, and an inside view into, the design and manufacture of canopies that I will never have.I'm not going to blindly buy one of Dan's canopies because he posts here. I'm going to learn as much as possible from many sources and determine what equipment is best for me before I make a choice.I have learned a lot about the industry in general and particularly about canopy design and manufacture from Dan's posts, and I appreciate that.Maybe it is free advertising for Dan, but it is a free education for me, and I have already benefited.Milo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #24 January 15, 2002 Ok Ok, enough ... my bad. I'll shut up, stand down, back off, eat my words, etc now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woppyvac 0 #25 April 23, 2013 Rigger & a Wings owner. It's a great container.Woot Woot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
