Aloof, unfriendly TM's

[JohnMitchell 14]

Why do some tandem masters try so hard to be aloof and arrogant towards their passengers? Is it too hard to talk to them for a minute, learn their name, maybe even brief them about the jump? Today I had yet another person tell me how disenchanted and unimpressed they were with their tandem jump. Seems the TM never even said hello, rode up in the co-pilot's seat, and hooked up just a minute or two before the jump, and never even introduced himself. The woman, an athletic woman in her late 40's, said she never was warned about the wind blast that made it feel she couldn't breathe, and felt like just a hunk of meat. She said she didn't enjoy it and would never jump again.

I'm not going to name DZ's or describe the guy. Just this, though: If this sounds like the way you do your tandems, why don't you just get the fuck out of the business? If you don't care anything about people, or even about giving the student/customer an enjoyable experience, you're hurting our sport. Yours is the kind of attitude that leads to passengers falling out of their harnesses. If you don't have enough personality to work with people and make them feel at ease, maybe you should get a job for which you are suited.


That is all.

[skydiverton2 0]

Agree, regardsless of the passenger/student discussion and the discussion about flaring.
Those customers pay a lot of money so you can at least treath them as human beings, not cargo.

Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habid.
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Also in case you jump a sport rig!!!

[popsjumper 2]

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...If this sounds like the way you do your tandems, why don't you just get the fuck out of the business? If you don't care anything about people, or even about giving the student/customer an enjoyable experience, you're hurting our sport...(excerpted)...If you don't have enough personality to work with people and make them feel at ease, maybe you should get a job for which you are suited.

Totally agreed!

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...Yours is the kind of attitude that leads to passengers falling out of their harnesses.

Totally disagree. John, you went waaaaay overboard here. Out of bounds and a low blow.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Para5-0 0]

Not only do I agree but I see it too often. I am working hard on increasing the following stats:
1. Tandem Students that return for another Tandem
2. Tandem Students that enter a FJC.
3. Tandem Students that finish AFF/AFP
4. Students that earn their A License.
This is as easy as the Tandem Instructor introducing the student to the sport in a friendly, fun, energetic way, and encouraging the student to come back. Take a moment and explain the process to get certified and how it is acheivable.
Sometimes it seems the only way to get some TI's (Not All) attention, is money, so how about offering a incentive for every tandem that they take that comes back or signs up for FJC. The National averages could come up if we put forth a collective effort.

[tonyhays 86]

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Totally disagree. John, you went waaaaay overboard here. Out of bounds and a low blow.

I happen to think John is right. If you don't care enough to have fun/greet/talk to your students, who is to say that you care enough to ensure the harness is on properly?

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Totally disagree. John, you went waaaaay overboard here. Out of bounds and a low blow.

I know that was a stretch, and a very serious statement, one that almost got edited. I can appreciate your view on it, and I somewhat agree with you. But paying attention to the student prevents those kinds of grevious mistakes. Ignoring them can lead to oversights. It's a serious business we're in.

[Kimblair13 0]

Do you think part of that falls on DZO's or Management allowing TI's to act that way?
One DZ I work at, it is VERY clear to treat the students like a God. Don't work there if you don't wanna be that way.
The other isn't nearly as extreme, but your still expected to great your student, chit chat, not sleep on the plane, thank them, go over future jumping possibilities. And when TI's aren't we're all sat down and reminded.

[banesanura 1]

Here's another spin-

What about a TI who's a bit to friendly during free fall and his hands aren't where they are supposed to be?


It happened to be- but I think that's why I got hooked on it....so it wasn't an issue.

Some of the women were quite offended by the photos....


I mean- most people don't even have an idea of whats going on....until you pull up the video/pictures....what happens when there isn't a video and photo??? Curiousity...

Best Girl Scout Ever.

[stratostar 5]

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What about a TI who's a bit to friendly during free fall and his hands aren't where they are supposed to be?

They get sued for S.H., just ask one former owner of the Carolina institute of skydiving. That BS is so early to mid 90's and any TI or DZO that still dose that crap needs a swift kick in the ass, or sued, call your lawyer, you'll win easy if you have video & stills.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[NSEMN8R 0]

Are you sure he wasn't just checking his handles?

[slotperfect 7]

I think I remember that one . . . I never saw the video but I talked to someone who did. She had no idea it had happened until she saw the video. She sued for something like $90K and won.

I have only done that once - to my wife - and I asked her permission. The picture is great.

Arrive Safely

John

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Here's another spin-

What about a TI who's a bit to friendly during free fall and his hands aren't where they are supposed to be?


It happened to be- but I think that's why I got hooked on it....so it wasn't an issue.

Some of the women were quite offended by the photos....


I mean- most people don't even have an idea of whats going on....until you pull up the video/pictures....what happens when there isn't a video and photo??? Curiousity...

I don't follow what you said.

You said you were groped on a tandem jump and that is why you took up skydiving????
Do you have some sexual fetish thing going on here?
But yet you say most people don't know what's going on unless they see pics or vid.

As they say if its not on video or a picture, it did not happen.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[ShadowCount 0]

I've had the pleasure of being trained by great people. They taught me everything I needed to know, pointed me to my errors, failed me when it needed to be done, but they did so with a friendly and positive attitude. Even if they thought I was a schmuck (I know some of them do). Because of this I felt at home at the dropzone and was happy to go back there after I received my A.

I've seen grumpy AFFI's ruin the whole experience for students. "Do this and so" before the jump, silence in the Cessna, only negative comments on the ground. I know you can't choose your own personality, but still. A little effort does wonders.

AFFI** So talk to me about that jump
STUDENT-- It felt pretty good
* Did it now...(silence)...
- * You dove out of the plane. What did tell you about that?
-
* How many practice pulls did you do?
- Err...three I think.
* You think... You did one. You should have done Three.
- Oh
* Yeah that wasn't too good a jump there (silence)
-

[banesanura 1]

I was joking about that being touched was the reason I took up skydiving. hahah


I guess I will have to send pictures and have you guys decide. The only thing that was *shady as hell* was the exit- since the cam guy leaves after us you can't see the front. Instead of his hands going up and excecuting a proper arch- one goes down in front of my leg strap and the other (you really can't see)

Entire free fall his arms were underneath mine and even the wave off was executed under my chest.

It is unprofessional looking back at it- but after I did my tandem- I didn't know- until me and my coworkes were watching each other's videos then we notice something very odd about mine....


I never jumped there again- and I don't recommend my friends to ever jump there. I went to another drop zone to complete my AFF.

Best Girl Scout Ever.

[BMFin 0]

Did it look like this

Note: Photo is taken and posted by someone else than me...

[banesanura 1]

hahahaha- not quite...maybe I should post some pics up have have you guys decide- I have to get to my lap top for those.....


We should have examples of where a tandem master should have his hands....because I (as a student at the time) had no idea where they were supposed to be.........

Best Girl Scout Ever.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Even before tandems, back in the static line days, there could be problems. I had a couple of jumpmasters working for me that I had to counsel about being a little too frisky during gear checks.

If that's the only way you can get it, that's sad.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I've seen grumpy AFFI's ruin the whole experience for students.

I was lucky, as a new instructor, to have some excellent mentors. One day I asked "What do you tell the student that screws up everything?" I knew berating was not the answer. He told me that skydiving is the pinnacle experience in most people's lives, and you have to leave them feeling good about it. If nothing else, you congratulate them on trying their best, in a very intimidating task, even if they didn't succeed.


If nothing else, they conquered their fear. Even students who froze in the door and never jumped deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

[JohnDeere 0]

That is sad. The TM's at my DZ are very friendly. I must say from what you are describing and others have before, I and other up jumpers at my DZ talk and joke with tandem students more than some TM's at some other DZ's. The DZ before the one im at (which is no longer in buis.) was so bad that no one would talk to you unless you where paying for it (training/jumping). I hate people that treat other people like that. Yes i understand DZ's do get to where interaction is not as common, but TM's should never be that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[dnhump 1]

John, You are right! Everybody else is immature, stupid and insulting to the sport. If you don't get it, get out!!!! DUH! I didn't didn't know this forum catered to dip-shit 2-year-olds!!!

[skydived19006 4]

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...no one would talk to you unless you where paying for it (training/jumping)...

This I think is a common problem. The statistic I like to point to is not student retention, but A license skydiver retention. My "A" license is A19518 (circa 1994), "A" licenses are now over 55,000 14 years later. Where did these 35,000 skydivers go? USPA membership fluctuates around 30,000 to 35,000 (from memory). My opinion is that a large part of the problem is that these folks are shunned since they're not paying someone to jump with them anymore, and the up-jumpers don't want to "waste a dive" with them.

A license skydiver retention is an issue at my DZ, but it's typically due to external (external to skydiving and DZ politics) reasons, like the girl that starts dating a non skydiving boyfriend, kids, etc.

Also my biased observation is that A license retention is better with IAD/SL. You do not complete an A license in a few weeks training static line at a small DZ! I'd say that the average is more like 6 months. By this time our students have literally spent hundreds of hours at the DZ, are family, and are treated as such.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[poe62 0]

Yep, I'm going to agree with you there. My DZ has some amazing TMs. One of them was so infectious about his passion that I fully credit him for getting me hooked on this sport.

That being said, a few years earlier, I had gone to another DZ to jump with my mom. I did NOT make the jump there because the TMs were making me SO uncomfortable that I almost busted out in tears.

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity

[JohnMitchell 14]

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That being said, a few years earlier, I had gone to another DZ to jump with my mom. I did NOT make the jump there because the TMs were making me SO uncomfortable that I almost busted out in tears.

That sucks. What was it that made you so uncomfortable?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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John, You are right! Everybody else is immature, stupid and insulting to the sport. ?????

Did I say everybody? There's a lot of good people in this sport, and in every human endeavor. Just as well, there are some that could do a much better job. What have you done recently to help out the sport?

[poe62 0]

It's kind of personal, but you know how some of the guys can be to females out there, right? At the time, it was a bit too much for me. I am very happy that I tried again where I currently jump. Some of the best people I know are there...

**edited to add...I'm sure they meant no harm. I was just not in best place at the time.

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity