Stilleto as a Student Canopy

[mnealtx 0]

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I'm not a big fan of the coach rating (or the pro-rating)
but then, I'm a fossil

but the kid said 'teaching', not 'helping'

See, even more of his 'mad skillzzzzz' that you ignorant skygods can't recognize!!

..says the 5-jump-per-year-average-(hardly) guy..

I'm not the one claiming to have 'mad skillz' - relevance FAIL.

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i bow to your excellence!

I *do* have pretty good common sense, thanks.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,400]

>Every canopy has it's positives and negatives IMO.

Of course. For example, I have a Nova 150 that I jumped for a while. It has positives; it has the best flare, hands down, of any rectangular canopy I have ever jumped. It also collapses with great regularity in turbulence, and has injured and killed a lot of people.

Which is why I don't jump it any more, and which is why I won't sell it. (And since it's in good shape I don't want to throw it out, so it's just taking up space nowadays.)

While no canopy is perfect, many are better blends of characteristics for newer jumpers than others. Especially nowadays, when you can get very, very good canopies designed for newer jumpers. The Stiletto will _probably_ not hurt you, but there are canopies that will likely serve you a lot better.

>The Stiletto is no different, but people who tell me I can't fly a canopy
>with the characteristics I want are on crack.

?? You can fly any canopy you want. Heck, you could jump a Velocity if you could get your hands on one. (You could even claim "the greater airspeed gives me more cell pressure, and I feel comfortable with that; you wouldn't want me to feel uncomfortable, would you?")

It would also be a really bad idea - and 'being on crack' (or not) won't change that.

>I love being able to plane it out on landing and fly it for awhile.

Most modern canopies will plane out like that. Without carrying additional speed, most will do it better than a Stiletto.

I suspect as you try canopies you'll find one you really like that is a better tradeoff of stability, forgiveness, flare power, openings etc.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I am not questioning Ian's ability or experience. I am calling him an idiot if he believes I am lying about demoing a ST 190 from PD when he works there and could easily verify it, but instead wants to publicly doubt my "claim"

You need to go back, read what I wrote, and specifically take note of where I set a poster straight who, incorrectly, inferred I knew anything about your situation or demo and misunderstood my post otherwise (although I wish I'd written the original more clearly). Post #256 as a reference.

My comment was an out loud question on if a demo would be sent to you, had you asked for one with all your information.


Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[scratch69 0]

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Hey skygods let this post die, please. I will talk to you all in a couple years at the prescribed 500 jumps. Of course then it will be "dumb luck" that I didn't get myself hurt or killed, and you will still refute my experience and testimony so it doesn't matter... but I will still be the one who won't listen.

Thank you for accepting my challenge. Can you just do us one more favor and let us know what DZ you are at? I like to make professional bounce bingo boards out of blown up aerial photos of dropzones. It would really help us out if you could just divulge that last bit of info and then have at 'er with that Spinetto.

Thanks again.

- - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

[EFS4LIFE 0]

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My comment was an out loud question on if a demo would be sent to you, had you asked for one with all your information.

And I gave you an out loud answer Ian. I said in the thread I did not lie about any information when requesting the demo. Everyone seems to think I am a liar, and the "out loud question" you asked seems to suggest that too. Hence the posters that you "set straight."

Scratch why don't you just start a pool about where my DZ is? What is it to you anyway?

I am an asshole, but I am honest

[EFS4LIFE 0]

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I'm not the one claiming to have 'mad skillz' - relevance FAIL.

Neither am I. You made the claim that I think I do, without even knowing me. You failed.

I am an asshole, but I am honest

[phoenixlpr 0]

To _ALL_: Stop feeding the troll.

[EFS4LIFE 0]

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To _ALL_: Stop feeding the troll.

Do you know what a troll is? Let me help you out. Here is the definition from wikipedia:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Now I don't think I exactly fit that definition. My post are quite on topic actually, and if you want to say my comments are inflammatory because I do not agree with you or that my PRIMARY attempt is to provoke an emotional response then please get over yourself and get off your high horse, guess what not everyone is going to agree with you.

I am an asshole, but I am honest

[Sangi 0]

Dude, how about you relax and do your own thing...

You shoulda learned by now not to post anything about yourself or what you do on dorkzone, you WILL get belittled, called an idiot and have predictions of your death all over the place..

Unless you agree with anything and everything the dorkzoners say, you will not be their "friend".

Fly your Stiletto, do your thing and don't post about it here, it's not worth it..

I'm willing to bet most of the skygod pricks here break their own damn preaching rules more often than most would think, the only difference - they don't post about it..

Relax, enjoy your ride and stay away from dorkzone!

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[scratch69 0]

Couple of jackass soulmates.

Sangi, take your own advice, stay away.

EFS4LIFE, you're a TROLL, deal with it. You're own post defines "with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response". Guess what? That is exactly what the two of you donkey's log onto dz.com for. Just to post stupid bullshit with the intent of sucking someone into an argument. Lucky for you, there are plenty of us on here that NEVER get tired of pointing out what a moron you or your friend Sangi are. This will NEVER get old. And once again, in a few years, I promise you, you'll be so embarassed of your posts that we'll never see you on here again. Well, at least not under the same user name .

You're both novices, stop pumping your chests and flexing your muscles on the internet. No one cares.

- - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

[Sangi 0]

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You're both novices, stop pumping your chests and flexing your muscles on the internet. No one cares.

You wouldn't care - you wouldn't reply

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[EFS4LIFE 0]

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You shoulda learned by now not to post anything about yourself or what you do on dorkzone, you WILL get belittled, called an idiot and have predictions of your death all over the place..

Well considering this is the first and only thread I have ever posted to I didn't know, but I should have figured.

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Unless you agree with anything and everything the dorkzoners say, you will not be their "friend".

Truer words have not been spoken...at least on this thread.

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I'm willing to bet most of the skygod pricks here break their own damn preaching rules more often than most would think, the only difference - they don't post about it..

You sir are a smart individual. I just wonder how many of them have the balls to admit it. Probably none. I wonder how many downsized faster than they recommend to others. I would bet the majority.

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Dude, how about you relax and do your own thing...

I am.
In closing I would just like to say that some of you (you know who you are) are pretty cool, EVEN if you can't whole heartily agree with my canopy decision. The others (they know who they are too) are just a bunch of bleeping bleeps.

Look for ANYONE who might read this thread in the future who is considering downsizing do yourself a favor a try an elliptical in the same size and wingloading first. I think it is sound "advice" and apparently so does PD, that is unless they just print falsehoods on their website. An elliptical in the same size can teach you a ton more about canopy flight without even downsizing. Anyone who thinks it wouldn't is just to proud to admit I am right about that. Notice how they haven't touched that subject despite my repeated attempts to bring it up? They whine and bitch about my ego but watch I bet none of them can stand it to let this be the last word. Even though I typed the challenge they can't help it. They will post more crap. It is all good I will be on here in a couple years or so at 500 jumps. Until then I am gonna take that advice and go do my thing. Peace.

I am an asshole, but I am honest

[rehmwa 2]

background music

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skydiverkeith 1]

Keep us posted on your canopy piloting progress and any bumps along the way (if there are any). Best of luck to you.

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[DocPop 1]

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Scratch why don't you just start a pool about where my DZ is? What is it to you anyway?

I am starting to wonder whether this guy actually does jump. He seems very secretive about which dropzone he is at - maybe there isn't one.

Maybe he is an "armchair skydiver".

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Ron 7]

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I'm not a big fan of the coach rating (or the pro-rating)
but then, I'm a fossil

but the kid said 'teaching', not 'helping'

Well, lets be honest... I was teaching the SL FJC when I had 100 jumps. That was with a SL JM.... About the same as a coach rating.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

Two things worth repeating.... I also see he has not answered either

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If you taught an FJC to someone, and they wanted to skip all those early levels and just go to the graduation dive, would you be OK with that? Imagine they promise to put 10 times the effort into learning that everyone else does.

And I asked him this several times.... He ignored it then also:

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>By the way I DO feel competent on the Stiletto 190 which is why I am
>flying one.

I'd be willing to bet that every single person who has been injured or killed under a good canopy has felt the same way.

Very few people that die in this sport think they will die in this sport.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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I just wonder how many of them have the balls to admit it. Probably none.

Hell, I started a thread about it hoping people like you would learn from the mistakes we have made...

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1130378;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Learn from them...Make fun of them....I don't care. Most on here think of me as a safety nazi...there is a reason for this...I survived my dumb mistakes and have seen others make the same mistake and not live to learn from them.

You just can't accept that we have been where you are, and have seen people act like you before.

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Notice how they haven't touched that subject despite my repeated attempts to bring it up?

I have noticed that you *said* you were following Brian's advice.... But seem to have ignored when I posted that you clearly were not.

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Even though I typed the challenge they can't help it. They will post more crap.

Just like you kept claiming that you were done here over and over and over?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[chutem 0]

I'm starting to think you are correct on this. How can no one who posts on DZ.com know the hundred jump wonder on the stilleto at their dz. Maybe we need a thread in general where more people will see it to see if anyone knows this guy.

James

[wmw999 2,123]

It's entirely possible that the guy is a whole lot quieter IRL than he is on dz.com (it happens). It could be that with a 190 and a reasonably conservative approach to flying, he's just under the radar, and is, in fact, listening and watching what's going on at the DZ.

So the folks who know him just know "Harry" (or "Jane" or whatever), and don't associate him with the guy who posts on dz.com.

But that guy who posts on dz.com sure can't stand to be wrong, and sure can't walk away from an online argument

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[chutem 0]

I'll be content to hope he maintains his ability to walk away in the real world.

James

[rehmwa 2]

last word (not)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[davelepka 4]

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I have trained my butt off, and worked on everything very hard. Every opportunity I get I am at the DZ packing and jumping my ass off. Hell it has caused problems with my girlfriend because of my devotion to this sport.

This is an interesting point that many 'new' guys bring up. I'm sure you spend all of your free time and money at the DZ, and all of the time you don't have free you spend thinking about jumping. So what's your point?

You've been at it for 11 months, and I'm guessing one, maybe two DZs.How about the rest of us who have done the EXACT SAME THING?

I live in Ohio, and can only jump 7 months out of the year, but I have managed to average 300 jumps per year for the last 15 years. Do think that's the result of a casual interest in this sport?


The thing that's getting you in trouble is the fact that you can't seem to recognize, or if you do you pay no attention to, the fact that there are horizons in this sport beyond what you can see from your point of view. You discount the value of advice or viewpoints just because they come to you via the internet, but you need to realize that the internet is what makes it possible for you to see beyond your own backyard. It's not the enemy, it's the enabler but you can't see it for what it is.

The people you are interacting with are not anonymous avatars commenting on a Youtube video, these are established, real people, with a deep, deep pool of experience to call upon. I'm sure your local instructors are good guys, and you absolutely want to consider their input on anything you do, but realize there's a chance that what happens at your DZ isn't the same thing, or even the best thing, that happens at other DZs.

An example (not to derail this thread, but this example comes to mind), the Dz in Lodi, CA, does not use a ground to air radio when training their students. Jumpers who learn to jump in Lodi, before venturing out to other DZs may not even be aware that ground to air radio is used anywhere in skydiving. The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of DZ use a radio system of some sort, and industry wide it's considered the thing to do. Lodi students could argue that they were not provided a radio, and that their student jumps went well, but that doesn't mean that an instructor from another DZ who endorses the use of a radio doesn't have a valid point, and doesn't deserve some consideration.

Open up your mind a little and try to imagine the fruits of your skydiving labors if you were to maintain your level of interest and enthusiasm for a decade or two.

By the way, if you're uncomfortable with a steep glide and a short canopy ride, I suggest you stop speaking in such a cavalier manner about 'Knowing my emergency prodcedures', because an F-111 7-cell reserve deployed after a high speed, spinning mal is the dictionary defeinition of a 'steep glide and a short canopy ride'.

[ufk22 32]

But I know what I want in my canopy. I love being able to plane it out on landing and fly it for awhile. (NOT HOOK TURNING) So far the ONLY canopy I have tried that I could accomplish that on is a Stiletto
My landings have never been so soft. Everything else has pretty much been a one stage flare.
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If you can't get that sort of landing out of a Sabre, you really don't know how to fly a canopy.
The reason the Stiletto is dangerous for an inexperienced pilot isn't it's glide or flare. It's the toggle response. The stiletto initiates a turn with far less input than most any other canopy. Just slightly reaching to the side with one hand when landing can biff you. A toggle input in an emergency that would be fine with almost any other canopy can screw you into the dirt. Just coming out of a flat turn too fast with slightly uneven control input can spin up the canopy.
I put a few hundred jumps on a couple of different size Monarch's (Precisions version of the original Sabre) and could get beautiful surfs before I switched to the Stiletto. I actually didn't think the surfs were any better under the Stiletto, but did notice the extreme difference in how the canopy turned.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

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[billvon 2,400]

>You sir are a smart individual.

Translation in these threads: "you are someone who agrees with me." Generally no matter what you propose - from jumping a Samurai at 100 jumps, to doing camera at 50 jumps, to undersizing your reserve - there will be someone who says "go for it dude."

For many people here, this is why they post. They need affirmation of their questionable decision, and if they look hard enough, they will find it.

A good friend of mine once said "all advice is bad" and there's some truth to that. Advice that you could have gotten on your own (like "go for it dude") is useless. Advice that you take without thinking about it is generally pretty useless, although in skydiving it does have some cool side benefits (like keeping you alive.)

Advice that makes you think, generally because you disagree with it - now that's useful. Unfortunately, it is also the advice most often ignored here.