Stilleto as a Student Canopy

[mnealtx 0]

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MNealTX wrote:
"So, Skippy, maybe you should look at my location and show me where the local DZ is at, I seem to have missed it. Maybe then I can get a few jumps in on the one day a week I have off work providing communications support to troops like you."

There used to be a dropzone outside Skopje. Not sure how close to Kosovo you are, but there are a few DZs in the Balkans (6 or 7). The one outside Skopje (if its still in operation) is probably closest to you.

I know the one you're speaking of - gone out there several times and never seen anyone.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[crotalus01 0]

Figures. 3rd world DZs seem to drift in and out of operation - I tried to find a DZ in Morocco a few years ago and never did, even following the directions provided on their website. Same thing for Israel...

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[piisfish 135]

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Figures. 3rd world DZs seem to drift in and out of operation - I tried to find a DZ in Morocco a few years ago and never did, even following the directions provided on their website. Same thing for Israel...

we are drifting from the original subject, but skydiving in Morrocco is seasonal. During the "colder European period", the french go down with their planes, but then go back to france for the summer.
Should you need any info on skydiving in Morrocco, I would suggest you contact Aarthus (generally he is in the wingsuit forum)

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Joellercoaster 6]

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is English not your primary language? You give me a freakin' headache trying to dicipher wtf your talking about.

That's pretty funny.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[kallend 1,625]

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I had no problems getting a new Stiletto 150 when I had 39 jumps.
Just sayin'.

I'm stupid but I want to tell you this:
And you kallend, freddy-krueger bitch, maybe it's time to kill the memories of this story, right? I mean, you seems like an inteligent person and such and god knows that we need inteligent persons in this sport, but for fuck sake freddy-krueger, let go of the story with the 39 jumps stiletto good karma shit.

Ask yourself this question what would an inteligent person have to gain from telling this story over and over again, always in front of the new kids? ... and if you're still in the imagination mode, thinking about that imaginary inteligent person then ask yourself what would an inteligent person encourage with his every action (speaking is an action, right?) if an inteligent person really, but really (not only pretending) really, loved this sport?

The POINT that you fail to get in your anxiety to have a nice rant is that you can't rely on PD (or anyone else) preventing anyone from buying a Stiletto (or any other canopy), regardless of what their recommendations may be.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[d123 1]

>The POINT that you fail to get in your anxiety to have a nice rant is that you can't rely on PD (or anyone else) preventing anyone from buying a Stiletto (or any other canopy), regardless of what their recommendations may be.

The first step for making a perfect world is believing that that world is only few corrections away. I hope you're wrong man!

BTW did you happen to lose the love for skydiving because of 100 jumps know it all people? Or is it because skydiving is turning into a cold industry instead of the Cessna friends who jump together? Are you my future, if I make it way longer?

Anyway, I still hope you're wrong!

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[kallend 1,625]

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>The POINT that you fail to get in your anxiety to have a nice rant is that you can't rely on PD (or anyone else) preventing anyone from buying a Stiletto (or any other canopy), regardless of what their recommendations may be.

The first step for making a perfect world is believing that that world is only few corrections away. I hope you're wrong man!

BTW did you happen to lose the love for skydiving because of 100 jumps know it all people? Or is it because skydiving is turning into a cold industry instead of the Cessna friends who jump together? Are you my future, if I make it way longer?

Anyway, I still hope you're wrong!

The only way I could be wrong is to get a time machine, go back 14 years, and be denied a Stiletto from a very well known dealer instead of being sold one.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[d123 1]

I understand your point.[boing] And know that your point[boing], while it is true[real], makes more overall good if taken as a unbelievable bad example I know that you agree with me

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[monkycndo 0]

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The only way I could be wrong is to get a time machine, go back 14 years, and be denied a Stiletto from a very well known dealer instead of being sold one.

Oh come on Kallend, even if they denied you that Spinetto 14 years ago, you would still be that grumpy old curmudgeon you are today.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[kallend 1,625]

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The only way I could be wrong is to get a time machine, go back 14 years, and be denied a Stiletto from a very well known dealer instead of being sold one.

Oh come on Kallend, even if they denied you that Spinetto 14 years ago, you would still be that grumpy old curmudgeon you are today.

Practice makes perfect

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,625]

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I understand your point.[boing] And know that your point[boing], while it is true[real], makes more overall good if taken as a unbelievable bad example I know that you agree with me

99.99% of the world's population thinks jumping out of airplanes is stupid yet you do it.

As far as the OP's choice of canopy is concerned, that is between him, his health insurance company, his DZO and S&TA. My ONLY point is that if anyone wants to buy a Stiletto they will have no difficulty doing so, regardless of what PD recommends. Is that clear yet?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[EFS4LIFE 0]

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As far as the OP's choice of canopy is concerned, that is between him, his health insurance company, his DZO and S&TA.

Damn straight it is. Contrary to popular belief on this thread I did not post to get approval from people that have never met me, nor to ruffle feathers, nor to be a troll, or anything else. I only posted to relate my experience with the Stiletto at 1 to 1 on a 190. I have made major mistakes on this canopy. Mistakes that could have got me hurt or killed on smaller HP's, but because of the larger size and light wingloading I learned and didn't get hurt. My only point was it is better to learn an elliptical BEFORE downsizing if you ever plan on flying one. People with a 160 jumps (BARELY) more experience than me ( like 20 jumps more and NO experience on an elliptical I venture to guess) or even better people with 50 LMAO can be a smart ass and asshole all they want if it makes them feel big. Go for it big! Lol, the guys with thousands of jumps well we disagree, so be it. I can accept that, can you?

Look I have spun myself up with bad body position, pulled my wing unlevel with a non-symmetrical flare, (still stood it up with a bit of running ONLY because of the large size and light WL) and I am still here, and plan to comment at 500 jumps with a BIG told ya so. I would also venture to guess that at those 500 jumps I will be a hell of a lot better canopy pilot than the "average" at 500, because of the experience of jumping that larger elliptical vs. a square. I know, God I know, this is just too big of an ego right?

I have some facts that I would like someone to contest. I have mentioned them several times, but they have been conveniently ignored. One, an elliptical is more sensitive to body position upon deployment. Two, an elliptical is more sensitive to harness input (even inadvertently) Three, it is easier to produce an uneven wing on landing by an unsymmetrical flare with an elliptical. I will assume that everyone can agree on these.

That, if agreed upon begs me to ask one question. Why would you have someone learn these things on a smaller (read less forgiving) size? That is essentially what you are advocating. Several hundred jumps equals DOWNSIZING. If you think a jumper won't you are kidding yourself. After all many of you yourself did too right? If not all. So I get a few hundred jumps on a square, downsize one or two sizes, and get a couple hundred more. Then all the sudden I decided I can handle an elliptical (probably with another downsize added in the mix) Now you have a jumper that eats it or bounces. Congratulations!

I advocate a jumper learn an elliptical on the larger sizes with lighter wingloading, if he ever wants to fly one. I just don't see how hundreds of jumps on squares can help you when you have been learning bad habits on them the whole time.

Can someone please have an intellectual debate about that? The bad attitude "your gonna bounce shit" has gotten old. I get that is your opinion. Now talk about my reasoning, and if you disagree, then why. I really am all ears, if you you are.

Blue ones

I am an asshole, but I am honest

[d123 1]

> 99.99% of the world's population thinks jumping out of airplanes is stupid yet you do it.

Wow, how do you get to these numbers? Did you just made them up?
BTW do you have a lot of "friends" from outside skydiving? If yes all of your "friends" thinks you're stupid!
How many friends do you have from outside skydiving, for real now, man? 10-15% of your total friends number? Do they think you're stupid? Probably not.. You're no stupid sheep that follows whatever shines in front of him, your not a stupid guy that imitates whatever is considered hip like the OP. No, no, you got your own thing going on. You got things to say that are worth listening. If you do skydiving you're doing it because you've found something there, didn't you?

I've followed your posts for a long time man. I tend to follow the posts of people who have something to say ... Bill Booth, Bill Von, kallend, another guy, I don't remember his name but he pops up here, with a clever post from time to time (popsjumper something, yeah he's clever too) .... and maybe 3-4 others and that's it. The other people here are mostly expressions of stupidity. Life takes a certain amount of stupidity to enjoy ... so I understand their smart choice.

But, if you can't say something good (and by good - just to be clear - I mean it makes good, as in: what you say it encourage the good path that keeps skydiving blooming in all the axis: [fun, skills, people, etc] in the long run - did you notice that "long run", implies the safe run too?) for THE part of life where you've invested most of your time then don't say it! It's simple!
And if there's another part of your life where you invest most or more of your time, talk less up here and speak more there where you care more!

BTW the correction that I was talking about was not for the OP, whatever his name is, I mean: please!!! Who gives a fuck? He has nothing to say. There are people in this world that are not made to leave/live a trace of themselves and he's one of them! He's a product of this forum, he's saying and trying to do whatever he's reading here in different threads. Why do you think he re-open this old thread, huh?

The correction that I try to make is for you and it's a small one. Let go of the stiletto story.

Do I need to write more words to send you this message or is it clear on your side?

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[EFS4LIFE 0]

d123

Hey twit nice way to dodge anything relevant to my post

I am an asshole, but I am honest

[Scubadivemaster 3]

I'll be singing that all day.

EDIT: Just realized I responded to a four year old thread brought back from the dead.

[timmyfitz 0]

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I just don't see how hundreds of jumps on squares can help you when you have been learning bad habits on them the whole time.

This would fall under the category heading of "you don't know what you don't know".

BTW, why do you make such a big leap to assume that someone jumping a square canopy is automatically learning bad habits just because they are jumping a square canopy?

If you are practicing bad habits on ANY canopy, that would be your fault, not the canopy.

[timmyfitz 0]

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d123

Hey twit nice way to dodge anything relevant to my post

Hey twit, maybe that is because he was responding to Kallend, not you. Plus I haven't seen anything relevant in your post.

[billvon 2,400]

>Why would you have someone learn these things on a smaller (read less forgiving) size?

No one is suggesting that.

Take that list you mention above. Why the heck would you want to learn those things on a canopy more likely to react very poorly to mistakes? Why not learn on an elliptical that will just turn if you open with a shoulder low, instead of spin up?

>Several hundred jumps equals DOWNSIZING. If you think a jumper won't
>you are kidding yourself.

And if you think a few hundred jumps means you're automatically ready to downsize, you're missing a very important part of learning to fly a canopy.

>I advocate a jumper learn an elliptical on the larger sizes with lighter
>wingloading, if he ever wants to fly one.

OK. So jump a Pilot. It's an elliptical that is MUCH better behaved than the Stiletto.

You may someday have to drive a car with bad brakes, bald tires and no headlights. Doesn't mean you should learn to drive with one.

[kallend 1,625]

Feel free to follow your own advice.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[d123 1]

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[chutem 0]

Did you ever buy a stilleto or are you still demoing it?

James

[davelepka 4]

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I advocate a jumper learn an elliptical on the larger sizes with lighter wingloading, if he ever wants to fly one. I just don't see how hundreds of jumps on squares can help you when you have been learning bad habits on them the whole time.

Can someone please have an intellectual debate about that?

Ok, debate this -

I contend that you, with your canopy piloting experience, are in no position to comment on a learning progression and it's effectiveness when the ultimate goal, and in turn the very measure of the success of the progression, is a level of skill that far exceeds your current abilities.

Without having succesfully completed the progression, on what grounds to base your assumption that your method will be more successful than the more conservative, more commonly used progression that many here are suggesting would be more appropriate?

Have you given any thought to the idea that the people backing the more conservative approach have actually completed a progression of learning in canopy piloing, and therefore have the real-world experience on which to base their assertions?

[EFS4LIFE 0]

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If you are practicing bad habits on ANY canopy, that would be your fault, not the canopy.

I did not say it was the canopy's fault at all. I agree it is the jumper's fault. My statement is that a square will let you get away with those bad habits without a measurable consequence, therefore allowing you to ignore things like practicing proper body position, symmetrical flaring, etc. because when you do make those mistakes at a large size and light wingloading on a square you do not really see the effect. The Stiletto in the same size gives me definite measurable consequences without downsizing, and although the reactions that occur from my mistakes on it are measurable they are quite tame at that size and WL.

I am an asshole, but I am honest

[EFS4LIFE 0]

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And if you think a few hundred jumps means you're automatically ready to downsize, you're missing a very important part of learning to fly a canopy.

I never advocated that. I just said it happens a lot. It is by far what I would consider common place. I think we all see that. Me for one have not downsized once, and I see no reason to for several hundred if not a thousand jumps on the Stiletto 190. I am still learning a lot on this canopy. I feel they are lessons I would not learn on a square. I will not go to a 170 until I have wrung ever last ounce out of the 190, and know that I have mastered it. That is a long way off brother, and despite what some people on here think, they do not know my personality, and I am wise enough to know that I am nowhere near ready for a downsize.

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Why the heck would you want to learn those things on a canopy more likely to react very poorly to mistakes? Why not learn on an elliptical that will just turn if you open with a shoulder low, instead of spin up?

I would argue that at a 190 with a 1 to 1 WL a Stiletto does not react that "poorly" to mistakes. It reacts for sure, and lets me know it, but it is way tamer than the smaller highly loaded ones that most are familiar with.

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OK. So jump a Pilot. It's an elliptical that is MUCH better behaved than the Stiletto.

If I ever get the chance to I will. I am not going to go out and pay for the demo as I am content with the Stiletto 190 for now and financially invested in it, but that is definitely a suggestion I will consider for my next canopy whenever I do downsize, lol but that is far away and who knows what else will be available by that time. I have heard a lot of great things about it though for sure. Not that it really matters, but isn't it semi-elliptical?

I am an asshole, but I am honest

[EFS4LIFE 0]

dave your whole posts debates nothing I have said. It basically says it exceeds my skill level (how you know this without knowing my skill level is unknown to me) and we know best because we have more experience (even though many of us made the same "mistakes") This has been repeated over and over again on this thread. I get it. Not trying to debate your experience, or listen to how much I have none. Doesn't "stoke my ego" I guess lmao.

I am an asshole, but I am honest