Tandem Instructor Poll: Landing Approach

[slotperfect 7]

Tandem Instructors voting only, please . . .

How do you set yourself up for the landing flare?

What would you say your percentage of stand-ups is with this technique?

Arrive Safely

John

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Stall surge. I setup in deep brakes, then release them (around 100 feet) to pick up speed prior to touchdown.

[jdfreefly 1]

my opinion: swooping a tandem with a turn to final is unsafe. I know I don't have thousands of tandem jumps and I am comparitively unexperienced next to some tms out there, but I got that opinion from other tandem masters with over 5000 tandems under their belt.

Some people swear by the tandem swoop landing. I preffer a nice braked approach and then letting it up to fly. When I am current, which I am not at the moment, my landings are fairly consistent. Worst case is sliding in on the ass.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[Tink1717 2]

Double Flare landing approach. As instructed in tandem training course and recommended by the system maker.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[AggieDave 6]

My landing depends on the situation, sometimes I use a braked approach (stall/surge), but most of the time its a simple standard "student" type approach.

As for standups, in no wind, well, lets just say I'm working on it, probably 60% are standups. If I have 5mph or more, well, the percentage is much much better.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pajarito 0]

I set up in deep brakes with a wrap for controllability. Depending on the wind, I can then release and build up speed if I feel I need to (but I keep the wrap). I like to come in as slow as possible. I then try and plan my flare so that I come straight down the last couple of feet. So, I guess the stall/surge method.

[murps2000 86]

You forgot one other option, that being "all of the above". I'll use all those techniques, depending on wind conditions, traffic options, spot, payload, etc..

When I'm doing tandem progression jumps, tho, I teach a regular student landing pattern, and a straight in, full-flight aproach.

[bodypilot1 0]

Most of the time I'll do a toggle 90 if there is no traffic in the pattern. If there is I may do a stall/surge. It also depends on the wind, canopy and the students size for me to determine the best technique for a sucessful safe landing.
No "one" technique is the best.
The best is the one that gets you on the ground uninjured and your student thrilled with his or her skydive.
I'd say about 95 percent of my landings are standup, and I do not decide that until we are just about to touchdown. If forward speed is too fast to take a few steps as we land I wont say "standup- standup", and we take the slide to be safe.

Be safe.

-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[lug 4]

There are a lot of variables that play into how I land the tandem age of the canopy, winds and where the camera flyer is on the ground. On light or no wind days where I am going to overshoot my camera flyer I will sink the canopy and get some serge for the landings. If I going to undershoot, my bad, I just fly straight in and land close to the camera flyer I can.

Memento Mori

[skydiverton 0]

Just straight is and flare. Using surge is not required, because I normally use the french BT80 tandemcanopy. This one is slight elliptical and complete ZP. No flare toggles because you do not need them. The canopy always has enough flare even in a slightly braked approach.
I try to stay with the 10second rule Scott Miller told us about in a seminar 1,5year ago in holland

If yoy want to make stand-ups no problem

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[dustin19d 0]

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my opinion: swooping a tandem with a turn to final is unsafe. .

@ SD Hawaii because of the strong trade winds they always do a 180 deg turn VERY low. You here screams all througout the day from TM pasengers.

[crutch 0]

I have to say othewr because I use all of the above depending on the conditions. I prefer the stall surge method, but sometimes tight landing areas and no wind make this difficult. The 90 deg. turn to landing works real well in the stadium on no wind days. Straight-in approaches also work well, but to have consitant stand-ups, you do need a little wind in your face.

blue skies,

art

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

One thing that I neglected to mention was where I keep my hands during flight and landing: on top of the toggles with the control line run between my index and middle fingers. Keeping them that high (Paul Rafferty gave me my tandem rating and taught me that) allows you more bottom-end flare power and allows you to "lock-out" your arms if your student tries to flare too soon (with the bottom loop of the main toggles.)

Chuck

[AggieDave 6]

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allows you to "lock-out" your arms if your student tries to flare too soon (with the bottom loop of the main toggles.)

I can do that with my hands in the top loops, with the toggles around the palms of my hands, I just grab the rear risers until it is time to flare. Of course, getting 3-5 practice flares with a student right after opening helps out with that too, teaching them your commands...but students do what students want to do.

I've heard the top of the toggle thing before, I'm going to try it out to see if it gives me just a little more pop on those no wind days to help me out.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[riggerrob 558]

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One thing that I neglected to mention was where I keep my hands during flight and landing: on top of the toggles with the control line run between my index and middle fingers. Keeping them that high (Paul Rafferty gave me my tandem rating and taught me that) allows you more bottom-end flare power and allows you to "lock-out" your arms if your student tries to flare too soon (with the bottom loop of the main toggles.)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ditto.
My, I hate sounding like that fat blowhard Rush Limbaugh, but it is the quickest way to agree with an earlier poster.

Some days I do straight in approaches and other days I use the surge technique recommended by Strong Enterprises. Since winds are usually light at Pitt Meadows, we tell students to expect to slide on their butts, concluding with sitting in the grass giggling.

• Quote

[bodypilot1 0]

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One thing that I neglected to mention was where I keep my hands during flight and landing: on top of the toggles with the control line run between my index and middle fingers. Keeping them that high (Paul Rafferty gave me my tandem rating and taught me that) allows you more bottom-end flare power and allows you to "lock-out" your arms if your student tries to flare too soon (with the bottom loop of the main toggles.)

Thats always the way I hold the toggles too, but I never let the students help me flare unless it a working tandem such as in my TAF program.
After opening and doing my controlability check I will let the student usually fly the canopy with my assistance or direction until about 1000ft and then take it from there.
During my earlier years of doing tandems I had the students help me flare but I have found the landing to be very inconsistant and sometimes very rough.
I hear from other Instructors that its hard to flare alone.
Work out alittle and build the strength to flare then is what I say.
I have also heard, "you are taking away from the students experience". I say, "I like my legs, and judging from my experience, WE stand a better chance of a SAFE landing if I do it alone and just have to tell them to lift their legs."
I have even had one DZO, you know, the one that does 2 or 3 tandems a YEAR, tell his Instructors he wants the Instructors to let the students help flare, and then I watch him let his students POUND him in!
There is nothing thats says you have to let your students help you land, but just land them safely

-
-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[mfrese 0]

Had to reply "other" because I use them all, depending on the conditions, the canopy, and the student.

I've been trying not to use the stall/surge approach as often lately, as we've had a lot of wind and turbulence in Northern California for the last few weeks, and I don't like what the canopy does in those conditions (i.e. looking like it's gonna roll up and drop out of the sky). I'll replace that with about a 75-90 degree turn to keep the speed up. Hey, Brian Germain...how about an airlocked tandem main?

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

[linestretch 0]

when I was allowed to hook turn the tandems in, my percentage was well over 95% stand up, regardless of wind. That was also on 300's and 330's. On the SET's, and not being allowed to do that, I do the surge most of the time, and the stand up percentage SUCKS big time. Depending on the wind of course....

my pics & stuff!

[bluskidave 0]

Aggie Dave,I use the top of the toggles hold as taught to me by Gary Morgan down at Beeville.Stall surge is my prefered method and with the Icarus Mains we use they have great amount of lift at the bottom end if you bury the togglesat the end of the landing approach.90% of my landings are standup but with a 230 pounder and no wind it is legs up and do the old butt slide. Look forward to jumping with aggie gang soon. Soft Landings, Dave

[DALAILAMA 0]

Don't tell anyone, but I concur with Skymonkey One!
I believe it is the best technique to use with the Sigma mains as well as the EZ series. It also allows the ability to set up an accuracy type approach and gaurantee that you will be able to land in a specific area. The 90 degree or more turn in doesn't always allow this and with the sigma mains there is the possibility of oscellation. With this approach it basicly takes out several factors that may come up unexpected such as wind gusts, turbulence or thermals. They still affect the landing but not to the extent that a turning in approach would have. The turning in technique (some people call it hook turn) also puts some considerable centrifical force on the passengers legs that makes it harder for them to lift their legs that the accuracy approach technique doesn't.
as long as it is under 500 lbs. and the conditions aren't too bad there is no reason an instructor can't stand up "almost" all tandems. Murphy of course is always out there. The % of standups are around +90% with this technique.

"Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form"

[crazydiver 0]

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@ SD Hawaii because of the strong trade winds they always do a 180 deg turn VERY low. You here screams all througout the day from TM pasengers.

Tandem instructors only please. Why would a tandem instructor do a 180 degree toggle turn because of the "tradewinds?" They should be holding into the wind and if they were to make a low turn, that would require them to do a 360 degree turn to get back into the wind.

Cheers,
Travis

[skydiverjerry 0]

i wanted to select two of the vote options, anyway i think bodypilot and rigger rob have it nailed thats exactly what i do, no radical turns, strait in and smooth nice ride at the top if they like to do 360s if not s ok safe flared landing continually talking to my GUEST i fly the landing just get your legs uo RUN WALK SIT or STAND IS THE FINAL WORD. safe ride, nice jump NEXT PLEASE!.

TANDEMS ARE THERE AS an intro to skydiving, a training tool or a fun day out!

not a taxi ride be safe keep oi simple, stay alert stay alive. adjust yourself to the wind, and read the student for a safe landing be smooth. just my mind set.

blue skies

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

[tandemphil 0]

I'd have to say that I use all of those techniques. My favorite by far is a 90 deg + - turn onto final. But there are too many variables to be able to use that approach every time. I'd say my standup % is about 75-80. There are always the people who are so much bigger or just unable to follow instructions that 100% stand ups are not likely. There is only one TI I know of that pretty much stands up every passenger. If you want to see a skilled tandem landing, come to Eloy and watch Tim Straus land.

to do is to be
to be is to do
do be do be do

[bclark 0]

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Hey, Brian Germain...how about an airlocked tandem main?

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Can you imagine trying to pick up and carry in an airlocked tandem main?

Oh yes, the original subject. I used a braked approach followed by a timely return to full flight and a smooth flare. Seems that little extra speed just gives you that nice bottom end performance.

[mfrese 0]

That's why I added the smiley...I have enough problems keeping my Vengeance 135 on the ground in a breeze, I can't even imagine trying to do that with a 330!

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash