0
slotperfect

Tandem Instructor Poll: Landing Approach

Recommended Posts

Quote

Stall surge. I setup in deep brakes, then release them (around 100 feet) to pick up speed prior to touchdown.



i do the same as Chuck....as you have seen before John.....half brakes, slow the canopy, then full flight get the surge forward, and almost every time....in my "vast" experience i have stood them up.
"Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i have not alot of exp with tandems but will also say i use all af the above. I will not be happy doing a low turn to the ground at this stage of my tandem career but will probably practice further on. most of my passangers have not been the rambo type so after the free fall and canopy open and all ok i see the condition and adapt my approach acordingly. I personally enjoy a little wind helps for stadups.
I feel what the conditions are also about 100 foot and on approach will decide if the landing will be stand or slide. The customer paid for the ride, have fun in freefall and under canopy , from 1000 feet i take over if i have handed over the toggles and prepare for a safe landing. there are normally tandems on the ground waiting i dont want to scare them by pounding in like a meat bomb:P
TQ
I am me and you are you, so deal with it!!!
www.skydivepe.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

180 deg hookturn:)

Yahoo Birddog! In my opinion, an already professional HIGH PERFORMANCE canopy pilot / experienced tandem master can pull it off every time. The bad part about the tandem hook is that you're going to have all the new blood / new school tandem masters trying to copy you. Ive seen it and it is scary. IMOH, you should have at least 500 surge landings minimum before you try to send a turn. That means, your first 200 will probably be straight in, then you start to figure out the canopy enough to try a surge for 500 times or so before you'll be ready for a more aggresive manouver.
You should also be VERY current, full time skydiver like birddog to land like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Brian Germain...how about an airlocked tandem main? ;)



The airlock is a good idea, but personally I would hate to be tied to one after landing on a windy day, which we have a lot of in Kansas.

I answered other because I do a little of all of the options. I jump Icarus mains, and do all the flying form 1000’ down. I have found that with a heavy load (500 lbs +-) that I just stick to a straight in, as any extra speed really tends to increase the toggle pressure.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For me varies on passenger weight and size etc... given the chance I will slide in on my arse normally,but with a good wind I will do a straight in and a deep flare and stand up...but with passenger legs up and get them to stand.

Its very important to judge the moment correctly and do the safest approach and protect yourself and the passenger.I would say that the landing part is the most critical and dangerous part of the tandem skydive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Like a lot of TIs have already posted here it depends on the situation. If the pattern is full I'm probably going to do a double break set up. If the pattern is open i'm probably going to hook it in. But as you all know there are a lot of factors involved. Either way I think that its important to be proficient in both techniques. Like most of you I alwayse have their feet way up for landing. But I also stand up 95% of my landings. But we all know that what works for one person may not work for another. Hopefully you will find your rythim before someone gets hurt. You can do 1000 tandems one year and the one that you will remember is not the naked chick, its the one where your passenger got a ride from having received a tib/fib. And I don't mean to be a downer here, but it was your fault. And you know that. Don't worry, if you've got the balls to keep doing tandems you will get past it and figure it out. If you need help, just ask. Ask the people around you. Ask Bill Booth. Ask Steve Woodford. Ask me. There are pleanty of people around that will help you. When figuring out tandem skydiving, pride should not be a factor.

CYa
aaron
“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Stall surge. I setup in deep brakes, then release them (around 100 feet) to pick up speed prior to touchdown.



I use the same technique as Chuck, And I rarely try to stand up my Tandems. Even if the winds are right and you slow down enough, sometimes the students don't try to stand up or can't. Some can't lift their legs or they feel weak or other reasons. Then you have the weight of your passenger pulling you over. Or worse yet they fall on your leg and break it. I videod this happening before.
I know it looks all cool to stand up a Tandem but its alot safer to sit it down.
SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well most of the time it is half brakes to full flight. that way I can put it where I want it. Like shooting accuracy. But if it is one of those times when I need something else. I do what needs be done. I do fly with my hands on top of the toggle and the lines running between the frist and middle finger.
My percentage of stand ups is very good. As long as the equipment is in good shape. Not new just good. I have worked for DZOs that could care less about what anyone thinks about their gear and they don't jump it themselves
Do or do not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is an old thread, but I figured I would respond again and tell you guys how they do it down here under their SET 400s: They generally bust a 90 turn and swoop in at Z-hills. It works for them as they are, minus a few individuals, very experiences Strong guys. Still, I am not down with it and I will continue to stall surge my own personal tandem rig. At Raeford, where I just came from (since 1984), everyone stall surges these days. There were one or two people who were busting hook turns under their old Strong 425's when Brian Quick ran the school, but that was vellllllly, velllly stooooopy. Thankfully, those rigs are shit-canned and nobody there is hooking their students in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chuck, do you ever have turbulence or wind conditions that make you hesitant to do the stall-surge approach? During the summer especially here in Norcal, I just have days where hanging in brakes at a low altitude scares the shit out of me. I've watched other TIs doing this, and there's sometimes so much spanwise movement on the canopy it looks like someone's playing the accordion with it. [:/] That's what prompted me to start doing 90s to keep the cell pressurization consistent. Just curious...;)
Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I use all of the aproaches dependant on the conditions of the day. I f there is no wind i'll do a 90 aproach, not for the swoop, only because i've got more speed to get more lift at the end of the flair. If here is wind i'll just bring it straight in and wether or not i'm looking hot on the target (catchers) i'll bring it in in brakes. Jumping where there is not often much wind i generally stand about 50% of them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Chuck,

One thing you mentioned earlier in this thread was about hand placement, specifically putting your hands on top of the toggle to give longer extension...you also mentioned something about it having to do with the student's actions. Since you have much more experience let me ask you how you handle this situation with your hands in that position:

During the pre-briefing I teach the student that hands up means full flight and that we want full flight prior to landing. I always plan on a slide in landing so I have them practice holding their feet up. Once we open I do at least 3 practice landing flairs. Since most people never do situps they try to pull down with their hands to help pick up their feet. I tell them hands up, hands up, nonetheless, I have had times when coming in for landing when the student's abs start getting weak and they start pulling down on the toggles. Not hard like a flair but some. SO to handle this I usually just push up on the toggles until it is time to flair and then give the command to flair.

I imagine people in NC and Zhills are just as out of shape as the rest of the country so you probably get some of this yourself. So the question is, how would you handle this scenario if your hands were on top of the toggles?

Definitely not busting balls here --- I am still new to doing tandems and want to learn as many tricks as possible to bring my passengers and myself home safe. Thanks in advance to you and the other very experienced guys for the input.
Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Push the toggles all the way to the keepers for full flight. Wrap your thumbs around the rear risers and squeeze. That will effectively lock the toggles in place, so even if they pull down to get leverage to lift their legs, the flare happens when you want it to.

B|
Arrive Safely

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beat me to it, John! I have to elaborate a bit though: John is a big motherfucker and would have no problem preventing a student from flaring early. I am, on the other hand, a much smaller guy and have had to, on occasion, lock my thumb around the rears to prevent a person from flaring too early. It was after one of those jumps where I decided to always take control of the canopy and land it myself on "first tandems."

I have not seen any "first tandems" down here at Z-hills which are permitted to help land the canopy. Likewise, unless I am doing a "training tandem" (cat A or B), then I have my student (passenger in this case) drop the toggles at around 500 feet. I land the canopy myself on all except very-few "first tandems". This prevents me from having to deal with the potential problem our green friend posted about.

Chuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have seen 180 degree turns with tandems, and in my opinion it is a tragedy waiting to happen. Too many factors can come into play. If you desire to risk your safety thats one thing but why the safety of a third party, who if told would probably say no way....traditional patterns even with smaller tandem canopies are always recommended. Remember how risky the jump can be in general why add to the risk factor. When given the chance Murphy will join you on the jump....at no extra fee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

@ SD Hawaii because of the strong trade winds they always do a 180 deg turn VERY low. You here screams all througout the day from TM pasengers.



and they don't get collapses?

presenting the top skin to strong winds is aking for it if you ask me?

i use a 90deg turn (with an out) and when the wind is strong i come straight in. there is no need to turn and you only need 1/2 a flare!!

why the hell would you do a 180 in strong wind??
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0