DB Cooper

[georger 237]

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Like Pyramid Lake? Don't forget Duane did discuss Pyramid Lake on our way to Tahoe when we Passed a road that would take us that way. I thought this had long been forgotten and perhaps by all except you.

One RARE time when Duane Weber mentioned skydivers and chutes. It was a fleeting statement, but I NEVER forgot it.
I am glad someone remember my story about that. I feel sure it was on DZ because we talked about Pyramid Lake.

I believe we discussed this in private emails some years back.
The route changed, due to fuel needs. I believe that DB's plan changed as well, as he would not be going over a predetermined spot. I cannot even imagined that an experienced or inexperienced person would jump into a storm at night not knowing what was below. I can imagine a person waiting for visibility below them to jump. Is there a way to know what the weather conditions were on the route near Pyramid Lake on the night of the jump?

It is as clear as day you do not have the "facts" of
the case. You are making this up as you go along
speculating.

"I cannot even imagined .... I can imagine ... Is
there a way to know what the weather conditions
were on the route near Pyramid."

Can you imagine Russia from your back porch ?

Its a hobby isnt it.

Pyramid Lake is almost as far NORTH of Seattle
as Portland is SOUTH ?

What Pyramid Lake are you talking about"?

- - - - - -

No reply. Guess Jo and Free The Fly are recalculating?

[tacomaman 0]

The FBI has long ago mined DZ for any useful insights. Most of the theories are based on loose circumstantial evidence (i.e. angry former military guy who comes into money around time and later confesses on deathbed... its a tired circumstantial case) .. yet DNA and fingerprints don't match....the Marla Cooper story has the same elements but came about in a quiet back channel manner.......just more credible in execution.

I will say that experience or inexperience skydivers would make that jump if they were in dire straits. People who need money can be a force of nature in of themselves.

I believe there will be further feedback later this week or next week. I am not in Marla Cooper's camp but know this investigation is moving hard.

[Robert99 48]

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The FBI has long ago mined DZ for any useful insights. Most of the theories are based on loose circumstantial evidence (i.e. angry former military guy who comes into money around time and later confesses on deathbed... its a tired circumstantial case) .. yet DNA and fingerprints don't match....the Marla Cooper story has the same elements but came about in a quiet back channel manner.......just more credible in execution.

I will say that experience or inexperience skydivers would make that jump if they were in dire straits. People who need money can be a force of nature in of themselves.

I believe there will be further feedback later this week or next week. I am not in Marla Cooper's camp but know this investigation is moving hard.

Taco, If the statements you make above are true, or anything close to it, you must be a senior FBI official in Washington. So it is time for you to come clean or just stop blowing smoke.

[377 22]

Bruce wrote:

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After all, the LD Cooper story is so pedestrian. What made the FBI so ga-ga over it?

Could it be a very photogenic blonde?

Maybe exBlue can back me up on this. A very attactive female crime victim or witness gets a lot more attention from law enforcement than does an ordinary looking person with the same story. I've seen it first hand more than once.

Sure, the FBI might not have seen Marla when they got the first report about LD, but soon she was visible and the story got legs.

She really killed the golden publicity goose with the Dan Cooper comics component to her story. Had I been her agent I would have nixed that. She'd have taken her sweet time providing an LD DNA sample and she'd have already been on Letterman. Timing is everything.

Howard White is a great skydiving historian and a good guy. I welcome his input here, but I also welcome Whuffos. Skydivers yawn at 99.9% of what gets posted here. Without Whuffi this forum would be growing cobwebs.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[freethefly 6]

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Like Pyramid Lake? Don't forget Duane did discuss Pyramid Lake on our way to Tahoe when we Passed a road that would take us that way. I thought this had long been forgotten and perhaps by all except you.

One RARE time when Duane Weber mentioned skydivers and chutes. It was a fleeting statement, but I NEVER forgot it.
I am glad someone remember my story about that. I feel sure it was on DZ because we talked about Pyramid Lake.

I believe we discussed this in private emails some years back.
The route changed, due to fuel needs. I believe that DB's plan changed as well, as he would not be going over a predetermined spot. I cannot even imagined that an experienced or inexperienced person would jump into a storm at night not knowing what was below. I can imagine a person waiting for visibility below them to jump. Is there a way to know what the weather conditions were on the route near Pyramid Lake on the night of the jump?

It is as clear as day you do not have the "facts" of
the case. You are making this up as you go along
speculating.

"I cannot even imagined .... I can imagine ... Is
there a way to know what the weather conditions
were on the route near Pyramid."

Can you imagine Russia from your back porch ?

Its a hobby isnt it.

Pyramid Lake is almost as far NORTH of Seattle
as Portland is SOUTH ?

What Pyramid Lake are you talking about"?

- - - - - -

No reply. Guess Jo and Free The Fly are recalculating?

Facts? Where did I state that?
Pyramid Lake, Nevada. I've never been able to come up with a map showing the actual flight path. The Pyramid Lake area is an assumption.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Pat71 0]

Taco a few day ago you were crowing to anybody and everybody that the new lead, LD Cooper was the real deal. I think you should put your keyboard away and be quiet for a while.

[377 22]

Freethefly's tagline is a line from a Neil Young song

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"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."

"Old Neil" (as Alabama folks refer to him) might as well have been writing about the Norjack jump.

Into the black indeed.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Pat71 0]

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I've read it here suggested that there may be significance to the fact that 305 was a newly added route. It's an extremely short route, possibly the shortest flight that would have warranted a 727 out of PDX? Perhaps Cooper was broke and it was simply the cheapest way on to a 727? Short and cheap flight means it would have been easy and affordable to do dry runs beforehand from Seattle to Portland and possibly observe the ground for landmarks.

No, Cooper was from Oregon or Washington. He knew the land, he knew roughly where he was despite the fog. He had been on flights from Portland to Seattle many times and recognized what Tacoma looked like from the sky. He had jumped from planes many times but mostly as a younger man. I imagine in 1971 you could not fly out of the United States from Portland, or you had very little choice, maybe to Canada, but to fly to the orient or other international destinations you would fly to Seattle first. He was quiet and efficient and had nerves of steel, which were aided by nicotine. He used exactly the right amount of words to convey his message to Tina, no more, no less.

[owleye 0]

"Skyjack" author Gray says the hijacker was positively giddy and childish (as described by one of the flight attendants) when he got the money. So, not always quiet and efficient. Not always in character.

[Farflung 0]

I equate the existing breed of aviation enthusiasts to being ‘Movers and Shakers’.

As in Moving into fewer and farther facilities and being like Shakers since they abstained from sexual activities and only lasted (surprise!) one generation before vanishing into history.

I don’t know when this ‘Skygod’ mentality started or if it has always been there and they simply represent a majority demographic now. The only skills I was born with were crying and filling my diaper, everything else was learned from someone else. I’ve never peed in the Cheerios of someone interested in general aviation as a vocation or hobby or whatever. But many think the sun rises and sets in their pants since they are God’s gift to all that dare set foot on that airfield’s macadam.

Eliminate 100LL, close Reid-Hillview and anything associated with aviation. So the logical response is to become a puppy spanking, ambassador to the sport? How’s that working out so far?

I read one thread where the common response was ‘STFU’ (nothing bitchy there) several dozen times. Do I think it should be shut down? Hell freakin no. Believe it or not, there was some good information sprinkled amongst the angst and demonstrated the swing between the enlightened and the ‘touched’. Reading both viewpoints gave me an education of the varied approaches used in problem solving or continuous improvement. Killing things or having people STFU will certainly maintain the status quo, which may be their desire.

I think the record requests to kill this thread is on page 8 of this partition, ‘DB Cooper it’s own section’ with an aggregate of seven people in less than two hours before 377 made a noble appeal and Quade locked the thread. I’m sure there were dozens or hundreds more waiting in the wings with an unquenchable thirst for Whuffo blood.

Just blood, because Whuffos have no guts.

[G_Jones 0]

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As for the flight, there are just too many aspects
of that flight that make it an opportunity. The flight
(time etc) may have been more important than the
route or even the location? A holiday burglary when
nobody is home at a time and place where you dont
expect much resistance. Against a company that
always cooperates. In a place where law
enforecement isnt very good and the weather is
covering you! You hunt ducks where they are when
they are available to hunt.

Whether Cooper thought tactically at all is a
mystery, but all of these elements favored Cooper
whether he knew it or not, or ever thought about it
or not.

It was most opportune circumstance, but some thought went into the plan. Holiday burglar indeed. Cooper was calculating enough to ask for his note back. He dressed specifically to blend in. He made sure the passengers didn't panic and dispatched them and any sky marshals. He wanted lights out in the cabin. Kind of like a bank robbery with the passing of notes and taking of hostages. Maybe he just didn't think the jump itself was that big of a deal.

Cooper could have chosen to dress for the jump and got on the plane no problem with a winter coat and boots, but instead he chose to dress for the con.

Previously, Cooper could have been imprisoned for armed robbery and found out about the 727 jump capability from a cell-mate. Someone who had actually done that stuff before in the military, and had plenty of time to tell him all about it, about how you'd need flaps down and to stay below 10k feet.

Afterward the FBI is checking skydivers, ex-military, pilots, laid off Boeing employees, rogue CIA smokejumpers and the like, but never thought to check and see if some convicted felon, recently released back east somewhere, had vanished.

Cooper could have been in prison for so long that by the time he got out, there was nobody around to notice him missing at Thanksgiving dinner.

[Robert99 48]

Jo writes:

Facts? Where did I state that?
Pyramid Lake, Nevada. I've never been able to come up with a map showing the actual flight path. The Pyramid Lake area is an assumption.

[freethefly 6]

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Freethefly's tagline is a line from a Neil Young song

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"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."

"Old Neil" (as Alabama folks refer to him) might as well have been writing about the Norjack jump.

Into the black indeed.

377

Indeed, Old Neil might as well been writing about the jump.

Looking at your profile, I see you are an aviation buff. Do you know of any maps that show the last leg of Cooper's flight? I wonder how close to Pyramid Lake the flight came before landing in Reno.

The description from Schaffner that DB was very calm and courteous suggest that he was a man that was use to controlling a tense situation and able to use it to his advantageous. IMO an amateur would had been far more threatening and not so in control as this man was.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Pat71 0]

If Cooper survived the jump, after the statute of limitation expires there would be a huge financial incentive to "come out". If he were to claim responsibility I can imagine him selling his story and basking in the glow of out smarting everyone. But that never happened because Cooper was probably a solid citizen with a productive life. I can see him being ashamed of what he did. He was from a generation that did what they were suppose to do. Why would he go off the rails like this? I don't know.

[BillyVance 34]

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If Cooper survived the jump, after the statute of limitation expires there would be a huge financial incentive to "come out". If he were to claim responsibility I can imagine him selling his story and basking in the glow of out smarting everyone. But that never happened because Cooper was probably a solid citizen with a productive life. I can see him being ashamed of what he did. He was from a generation that did what they were suppose to do. Why would he go off the rails like this? I don't know.

There's a statue of limitations for skyjacking? Seriously? I assumed most felonies had none.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[freethefly 6]

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Jo writes:

Facts? Where did I state that?
Pyramid Lake, Nevada. I've never been able to come up with a map showing the actual flight path. The Pyramid Lake area is an assumption.

Jo, You can forget Pyramid Lake since it is northeast of the Reno airport. Just a handful of miles north of the Red Bluff, CA airport, the airliner turned and flew directly to the Reno airport.

[airtwardo 7]

When the test was over I asked how I did. As he was tearing the graph paper off the machine and reaching for a stapler he said, “You should know.” God I’m cool.

Sure...a tack in your shoe, zinc oxide on your hands and 10mg of Valium, who COULDN'T pass.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[freethefly 6]

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If Cooper survived the jump, after the statute of limitation expires there would be a huge financial incentive to "come out". If he were to claim responsibility I can imagine him selling his story and basking in the glow of out smarting everyone. But that never happened because Cooper was probably a solid citizen with a productive life. I can see him being ashamed of what he did. He was from a generation that did what they were suppose to do. Why would he go off the rails like this? I don't know.

From Wiki:

Statute of limitations

In 1976 discussion arose over impending expiration of the statute of limitations on the hijacking. Most published legal analysis agreed that it would make little difference, as interpretation of the statute varies considerably from case to case and court to court, and a prosecutor could argue that Cooper had forfeited immunity on any of several valid technical grounds. The question was rendered moot in November when a Portland grand jury returned an indictment against "John Doe, aka Dan Cooper" for air piracy and violation of the Hobbs Act. In effect the indictment formally initiated prosecution of the hijacker that can be continued, should he be apprehended, at any time in the future.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[tacomaman 0]

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If Cooper survived the jump, after the statute of limitation expires there would be a huge financial incentive to "come out". If he were to claim responsibility I can imagine him selling his story and basking in the glow of out smarting everyone. But that never happened because Cooper was probably a solid citizen with a productive life. I can see him being ashamed of what he did. He was from a generation that did what they were suppose to do. Why would he go off the rails like this? I don't know.

There's a statue of limitations for skyjacking? Seriously? I assumed most felonies had none.

This is absolutely not true. The Government's position is based on the counts and status of the indictment. The Government based on the investigation could also assert other / new claims for a DB Cooper that was found / outed or announced.


And for the so-called lawyer to be dispensing legal advice to KC's supposed accomplish on the Histoy Channel's Dectors show was silly, if not reckless. The show itself was of course silly.

[Mr.Green 0]

Taco, exactly how do you know these things you claim?

[Mr.Green 0]

You don't know me.

[georger 237]

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Jo writes:

Facts? Where did I state that?
Pyramid Lake, Nevada. I've never been able to come up with a map showing the actual flight path. The Pyramid Lake area is an assumption.

Jo, You can forget Pyramid Lake since it is northeast of the Reno airport. Just a handful of miles north of the Red Bluff, CA airport, the airliner turned and flew directly to the Reno airport.

[G_Jones 0]

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No, Cooper was from Oregon or Washington. He knew the land, he knew roughly where he was despite the fog. He had been on flights from Portland to Seattle many times and recognized what Tacoma looked like from the sky. He had jumped from planes many times but mostly as a younger man. I imagine in 1971 you could not fly out of the United States from Portland, or you had very little choice, maybe to Canada, but to fly to the orient or other international destinations you would fly to Seattle first.

I agree that it seems to make sense that he would have known the area. Add that with his choice of chutes and a picture is emerging. Seems logical, but what if those assumptions are wrong? What if the part about recognizing Tacoma from the air isn't as clear or as significant as it seems? If Cooper overheard a passenger mention it or guessed from seeing it on a map?

The FBI was investigating people based on what might seem to make obvious sense, maybe they were looking for the wrong person due to making the wrong assumptions. Those being that he was a jumper at some point, probably ex-military, some kind of aviation experience, and that he knew the area. He could have been all those things and still off the radar somehow, but there's no actual proof of any of these things, they are just guesses, so they could all be wrong. All he factually needed to know about the plane, somebody could have told him. Jump from a 727, make sure it is flying low and slow, and watch out for air marshals.

I do think if Cooper was from or knew the area well, even with fog he'd have an idea where he was jumping, at least from lights from the interstate and the glow from Vancouver and Portland. If Cooper was a pilot then he'd probably have a very good idea where he was.

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He was quiet and efficient and had nerves of steel, which were aided by nicotine. He used exactly the right amount of words to convey his message to Tina, no more, no less.

That efficiency and confidence makes it seem like he'd done this kind of thing before, not a hijacking, but some kind of planned crime. Clearly he knew what he was doing up to a certain point, but that may not mean he was a skydiver or spent much time in the air. He sure didn't want to reveal much. Maybe he was also masking a regional accent by saying little.

[georger 237]

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Well, today I read a great deal from Gray's new book and now I know who most of you REALLY are and what you do for a living. Or what you did for a living before you retired. I was mildly surprised at some of your backgrounds. (*smiles*)

And how some of you came to be infected with the infamous Cooper Curse.

Don't worry, I'm not about to give anybody up online.

The book jumps around a lot from suspect to suspect, but I think it's well-researched. I have a suspicion that Gray still believes there is a chance Kenny could be the guy. .

Well, your comments define YOU clearly. Who and
what you are. What your priorities are and why.

Your critics were right.

Welcome to Wacko Nation, Rev. Foghorn Blevins.

[skyjack71 0]

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What Pyramid Lake are you talking about"?

No reply. Guess Jo and Free The Fly are recalculating?

I am talking about one that we passed on our to Tahoe - it is flat land with a lake and Duane had known someone there on the other side of the Lake who was jumper. It has been so long since this was mentioned I had let it go. I will pull the map and give this information to you,.

Some where on DZ...I had a discussion with some jumpers about Pyramid Lake - seems like there are two of them. The one I am talking about is North of Lake Tahoe up near the Oregon border line, but I don't know right now if it is located in CA or Nv - It was someplace near the border line of CA,

Georger this is NOTHING new. I discussed this in the forum - we even had a thread called Pyramid....Quade can help you find this stuff - I just can't do it.

I never gave it much thought but explored it. I have NEVER felt that Cooper jumped in that area and nothing Duane said would indicate this to be. He ust spoke about being there and having known a man who lived there. I remember the land being what barren. It was the one area he actually mentioned someone who was a jumper, but now I forget what kind. The told me about someplace they stayed, but again it has been many yrs since I allowed my mind to go back to that point.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber