DB Cooper

[Ckret 0]

"Hmmm, and all this time I thought Lincoln-Mercury started making Cougars in 1967. You're telling me that Cougars were being made in 1924?"

Quade,

You win the day "U Sum Bitch" Now thats FUNNY, I don't care you are. Git-R-Done

[Ckret 0]

Georger,

No accent, nothing that would put him in the North South East or West, or overseas. just a plain old American.

[Ckret 0]

[bigway 4]

I heard a old geezer in the watering hole a couple of suns ago telling us he fair dinkum saw DB coops getting eaten and buried by a dingo. apparently the dingo folded his clothes and buried them in the backyard as well.
Stone me flamin crows, this guy was as serious as a outdoor dunny

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Ckret 0]

377,

I have prepared the basement for you.... "it puts the lotion in the basket..." IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET!!!!

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

One thing that would really open my eyes is if Wolfgang actually was Cooper. If so, the composite sketch was pretty darn close and that is not the usual case.

I don't know what composite you are looking at...but Gossetts eyebrows are WAY off from the composites - EXCEPT for Galen Cooks ALTERED composite. That was one of the main things he changed - the eyebrows.

This is what I mean by fiction and fact merging and fiction (the alter composite) becomes recogniized as the original because most people will not see the difference unless it is someone who was involved or very well acquainted with the original composites.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

There must be a private joke going on here - puts the lotion in the basket? The referring post had been deleted.

Now - for business. Snowmman you have asked for photos that show his eyebrows - but I only found 4 in the entire album..and all of them show him clowning.

This photo has glasses on, but
because it was made without his advanced knowledge and he was
upset I took the shot - it caught
him off guard.

Note - I do not have any before
1978 that are of any quality and those are polaroid. Rememer that he destroyed all photos he had of himself prior to 1977.

The ex-wife sent me one and his brother found a couple in Ma Weber's belongings and what we have been able to locate thru the prison files.

His eyebrows are raised above the glasses frame. This was just prior to his growing the mustache and the fuller head of hair. He had this snarl on his face - which I hardly ever saw unless he was mad. This snap does not look much like him, but it shows an expression that Tina may have seen and it shows the eyebrows although in an un-natural position.

This was his "mean" look.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

thanks for the pic Jo.
I get a better feel of Duane being a fun guy to be around. The tattoo is interesting. Any idea when he got it?

Quote

There must be a private joke going on here - puts the lotion in the basket?

trust me Jo..you don't want to know! It'd be better if Ckret sat around watching "Heat" over and over again, I think!

[377 21]

Quote

377,

I have prepared the basement for you.... "it puts the lotion in the basket..." IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET!!!!

Said by Buffalo Bill/Jamie Gumb, NOT Hannibal Lecter as some think.

Two FBI agents crash a transvestite party in Washington DC looking for a fugitive. Holy cow says the SAC to the SA. That's the DIRECTOR over there in the black dress.

Wow, look at that. J. Edgar is one crazy crazy dude trying to look like a woman. He forgot to shave, and that dress looks like something my grandmother would wear. It puts the lotion in the basket, or else it gets the hose again.

Let's get out of here before he recognizes us and assigns us to Nebraska. Clyde didn't see us did he?

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Quote

Quote

One thing that would really open my eyes is if Wolfgang actually was Cooper. If so, the composite sketch was pretty darn close and that is not the usual case.

I don't know what composite you are looking at...but Gossetts eyebrows are WAY off from the composites - EXCEPT for Galen Cooks ALTERED composite. That was one of the main things he changed - the eyebrows.

This is what I mean by fiction and fact merging and fiction (the alter composite) becomes recogniized as the original because most people will not see the difference unless it is someone who was involved or very well acquainted with the original composites.

I agree with Jo that changing a composite to more closely match your suspect is playing dirty, but it was not done by Galen Cook, correct?

Am I the only person who thinks that the original and the allegedly altered composite look basically like the same person? The differences are immaterial to my eye.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Georger wrote:

"Somebody must be reading this forum laughing and
thinking: THESE GUYS ARE ALL NUTS!"

We are perfectly normal. We are, we are, we are!!!
The FBI is trying to discredit us in public because we know too much about Roswell, Area 51, the black helicopters and the phony Apollo missions.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Quote

When the passengers were taken off of the plane they were escorted to a VIP lounge. Only five of the 35 passengers took notice of Cooper or that there may be a problem other than what was announced by the crew. They are as follows:

Mr Gregory
Mr Labissoniere
Mr Spreckel
Mr Williams
Mrs House

The remaining 30, to include the Simons, stated they knew of nothing other than what the crew had advised them nor did they notice Cooper. I guess a few minutes a fame changed the Simons' mind.

Maybe the dna of Mr. Simons should have been taken
from the Lav to refresh his mind!

[georger 197]

Quote

Georger,

No accent, nothing that would put him in the North South East or West, or overseas. just a plain old American.

And there aint no such animule.

Everyone is from someone and somewhere.

(Prior to the internet that is)

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

And there aint no such animule.

Everyone is from someone and somewhere.

(Prior to the internet that is)

No accent would simply mean he was from the middle of the US somewhere. Same old trick with national newscasters. It would also imply english as the primary language and having been born in the US by parents who used english as their primary language. The lack of slang may indicate a higher level of education. Not necessarily a college, but it could also be from further education and leadership courses from with in the upper enlisted ranks of the military. It also points away from someone with a previous conviction. I've yet to meet someone who has done any sort of jail or prison time that hasn't picked up some sort of none-popular slang.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ckret 0]

I discovered another document yesterday where we interviewed the lead test pilot for the 727 project. He stated it is impossible for the plane to takeoff with the airstairs down and locked. That they had done several tests deploying them for a certain company that was interested in doing "food" drops. (I'll leave that one alone)

He said when the airstairs are deployed nothing gets sucked out of the aircraft. There are only small fluctuations in pressure.

So my mission today (as I avoid a boat load of admin paper I have been putting off) is to find the file on the tests we did with flight 305.

More progress, I think I am closing in on proving Cooper jumped further south.

[n467us 0]

In that photo... is that a bomb in his hand?

[Mr.Nuke 0]

Quote

I discovered another document yesterday where we interviewed the lead test pilot for the 727 project. He stated it is impossible for the plane to takeoff with the airstairs down and locked. That they had done several tests deploying them for a certain company that was interested in doing "food" drops. (I'll leave that one alone)

As others said when the issues was raised a couple of pages ago this is correct. In order to take off you obviously need a higher angle of climb to get in the air. This often means the tail is going to come fairly close to the runway on takeoff. With the stairs down it is pretty much a given that it would've lead to tailstrike.

Here is visual evidence showing you why.
a 727 takeoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WeKH04who
a 727-100 landing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WloSnR35IU

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Wonder what that little “Cone” is on the bottom of the tail section (see take-off video)?

Tailskid
If there is cases of over rotation on take off it's this that will first contact the
runway. It is equipped with an energy absorber, which consists of a cylinder
with a crushable honeycomb core in the upper half. The core is replaceable.
An indicator clip is riveted to the strut and attached to a wire. When the clip is
sheared off by compression of the tailskid, it will be retained by the wire and a
red area beneath the clip will be exposed to indicate that the core has been
crushed. Operation is by the electrical system and extends when the landing
gear lever is in the down position and the outboard flaps have been lowered
15 deg or more. It retracts when the gear lever is placed in the up position. It
has it's own warning light on the flight engineers door annunciator panel and
comes on when there is a disagreement with the landing gear lever in the up
or down positions.

Good video for illustration purposes, thanks.

Sluggo

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Ckret 0]

Flight test data:

On 01/06/1972, NWA, FBI and Air Force personnel flew the 727 used for 305 out over the Pacific with two 230 lb sleds (Coopers body weight of 180 lb + money + weight of chutes).

Once in the test area the plane was flown with flaps at 15 degrees, wheels down, approximately 150 knots. When the airstairs were released, they dropped 20 degrees. There was a slight change in cabin pressure seen only on the gauge.

Air Force Captain Wilson and M/Sgt Saiz separately walked down the airstairs (wearing parachutes) and stood at the bottom. Each reported that the stairs lowered to almost a level position, they were stable, no drag from the wind and they could stand fully upright.

When at the bottom of the stairs the cabin pressure gauge showed significant changes.

They then dropped the two sleds and on both tests the sleds dropped directly down (there was a theory that Cooper would have been slammed up against the tail when he jumped). The moment the sleds cleared the stairs the flight crew felt a popping in their ears and the cabin pressure gauge reacted violently. It was discovered from chase plane photo's, video and reports from Wilson and Saiz that the pressure change was caused by the stairs being forced upward by the airstream after the weight was removed.

Second Officer Anderson, who was present for the test and served on the flight crew of 305 the night of the hijacking, stated what was felt during the test was identical to what was experienced the night of the hijacking.

[ltdiver 3]

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Air Force Captain Wilson and M/Sgt Saiz separately walked down the airstairs (wearing parachutes) and stood at the bottom. Each reported that the stairs lowered to almost a level position, they were stable, no drag from the wind and they could stand fully upright.

What a very cool visual! I want to do that! (the Perris jet has the lower 1/2 of the stairs removed for skydiver flights).
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[snowmman 3]

I'm going to multiply the error bounds with this, but combining the middle US theory with a college theory might say he went to college somewhere in the middle US.
Me, I'm biased away from military being a primary thing, although maybe a contributor. Upper level military? the buzzcut and the linear thinking and weird convoluted staccato communications gets embedded in those guys. It's like that's where our tax money goes...to program those guys. So that doesn't really resonate, for me.
(edit) Just realized this sounds offensive. Yes it reflects a bias. But people can tell me if I'm off base.

Quote

Quote

And there aint no such animule.

Everyone is from someone and somewhere.

(Prior to the internet that is)

No accent would simply mean he was from the middle of the US somewhere. Same old trick with national newscasters. It would also imply english as the primary language and having been born in the US by parents who used english as their primary language. The lack of slang may indicate a higher level of education. Not necessarily a college, but it could also be from further education and leadership courses from with in the upper enlisted ranks of the military. It also points away from someone with a previous conviction. I've yet to meet someone who has done any sort of jail or prison time that hasn't picked up some sort of none-popular slang.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Jo... you will get farther down the road by focusing on locating EVIDENCE that supports Duane being DB Cooper. So what if Galen Cook (allegedly) took your info and used them for his book? It happens!

Oh please ... like he is using someone scared of leaving fingerprints behind as "her" "evidence"? Like it isn't public that there are fingerprints on a glass Cooper used (ckret has posted this)? Why doesn't she track down the judge who allegedly made the comment before accusing Galen Cook of making things up? Oh wait... that would count as a pursuit of the truth, rather than singleminded pursuit of the Duane theory.

And, why on earth Galen Cook would go to so much trouble to persuade a few skydivers and a couple of web sleuths is beyond me. That's hardly going to make or break his book sales. A "mole" on this site? Well.. to begin with, hardly the first time we've heard that accusation - against a number of people (Tosaw, for example, apparently also had a "mole" here, and I'm sure there were more). Anyone heard of the little boy who cried wolf? Second.. if there is a "mole", please reveal yourself - we have questions to ask you
I'm sure Cook, who by everyone's admission including Jo's has been on this case for many years, managed to find a lot more info to suit his case than being here on this website... Personally, I remain impressed by the fact that he seems to have progressed through suspects until he apparently found one that fits all his criteria, rather than latching onto someone and desperately trying to make everything fit the story.

To 377: no, you are the not the person who thinks the "altered" composite looks like the original. And at least we have photos that are not disguised by glasses to compare it to.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

good info. On the "food drop" tests, I'm assuming they only tested stair deployment? i.e. they didn't do real box drops like the FBI did? Ckret has said the FBI was the first "reported" to do the drop test that led to the "popping" data...but I'm wondering.

I'm wondering how they (whoever the pilot is referring to) tested "stair deployment" if the stairs don't deploy unless weighted. What exactly did they test?

Did the agent doing the interview press this issue? I suspect there was more info to be gained, that maybe was not realized to be important, at the time?

Quote

Quote

I discovered another document yesterday where we interviewed the lead test pilot for the 727 project. He stated it is impossible for the plane to takeoff with the airstairs down and locked. That they had done several tests deploying them for a certain company that was interested in doing "food" drops. (I'll leave that one alone)

As others said when the issues was raised a couple of pages ago this is correct. In order to take off you obviously need a higher angle of climb to get in the air. This often means the tail is going to come fairly close to the runway on takeoff. With the stairs down it is pretty much a given that it would've lead to tailstrike.

Here is visual evidence showing you why.
a 727 takeoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WeKH04who
a 727-100 landing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WloSnR35IU

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

6:40 PM PST:
Pilot:
Reading the proposed procedure, [it] says the stairs will open about 20 degrees at 120 knots. Is that enough for an individual to get out?
MSP Flt OPS:
With him on [the stairs], [the stairs] will open possibly for him to get out. Remain unpressurized, be [in] landing configuration with flaps [down]. Slow to [approach to landing] speed before [you] try to extend the stairs. Continue slow[ing] to threshold speed. Try with either gear up and if unable with gear down.

6:59 PM PST
Msp Flt Ops:
You should have no control problems when the stairs are extended. [There] may be some slight pitch-up, but very controllable. The plane [727] has been flown this way. Have had large boxes of 200 to 300 lbs [pushed] through the door in this configuration. Must be down with landing flaps [probably meant landing gear, by context], speed is not to critical, any flap position, between 5 and 40 degrees, and any speed down to 120 knots. I don’t have [pitch] angle yet, but I’m working on it.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Good job highlighting this stuff again Sluggo.
I just realized something...The pilot said they were reading the proposed procedure? Is the pilot reading notes that he's taken? There's no way there's a manual on the plane he could be consulting on this procedure. Did the info come in prior radio messages, and he's just confirming it now with Flt Ops?

If Flt Ops had given info that he took notes on, I always wondered where Flt Ops got their info. Did they find a report quickly? Probably not...no quick computer search for pdf files back then? Human search..probably they called someone on a telephone. Who did they call? We'll probably never know, although if it was '71 we'd obviously pursue this detail a lot, just to know.

I'm thinking they must have called someone, cause on Thanksgiving Eve, with the timeline we have, it's unlikely someone with the right knowledge happened to be in Flt Ops, or got dragged in quickly enough. Although maybe that was the scenario. Can't tell.

Quote

6:40 PM PST:
Pilot:
Reading the proposed procedure, [it] says the stairs will open about 20 degrees at 120 knots. Is that enough for an individual to get out?
MSP Flt OPS:
With him on [the stairs], [the stairs] will open possibly for him to get out. Remain unpressurized, be [in] landing configuration with flaps [down]. Slow to [approach to landing] speed before [you] try to extend the stairs. Continue slow[ing] to threshold speed. Try with either gear up and if unable with gear down.

6:59 PM PST
Msp Flt Ops:
You should have no control problems when the stairs are extended. [There] may be some slight pitch-up, but very controllable. The plane [727] has been flown this way. Have had large boxes of 200 to 300 lbs [pushed] through the door in this configuration. Must be down with landing flaps [probably meant landing gear, by context], speed is not to critical, any flap position, between 5 and 40 degrees, and any speed down to 120 knots. I don’t have [pitch] angle yet, but I’m working on it.