Canopus 0
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maurico 0
Skydivers,
Zing (previous thread) says the jump is doable but at the time would anyone other than military jumpers have done a jump like Cooper's (at night, from a jet, with extra gear, over an area that is not a DZ).
I presume that even the hard-charging jumpers among you don't do this kind of jump every week-end....
ps I'm starting to think that maybe he didn't pull and landed in the mud as was suggested previously.
Zing (previous thread) says the jump is doable but at the time would anyone other than military jumpers have done a jump like Cooper's (at night, from a jet, with extra gear, over an area that is not a DZ).
I presume that even the hard-charging jumpers among you don't do this kind of jump every week-end....
ps I'm starting to think that maybe he didn't pull and landed in the mud as was suggested previously.
Quote
I presume that even the hard-charging jumpers among you don't do this kind of jump every week-end....
I agree with the not every weekend part.
Cooper did not do it often though, only once.
Have a look in the 'Incidents' threads.
Experienced jumpers have been know to jump,
situations beyond their abilities,
borrowed gear,
unfamiliar aircraft,
unfamiliar DZ,
poor weather conditions.
It happens!
Sometimes with fatal results and sometimes it's no problem.
PULL!
jumpin_Jan
"Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede
reply]
Jo...again, that is hardly the FBI's job. And these people could have a background as anything. They could be skydivers, but they could also be fishermen, accountants, gamblers, invetment bankers, street sweepers, short order chefs....
once again you're making leaps of logic that the rest of us find a bit hard to fathom. From commutation of sentence (most likely because he was a snitch) to skydiving?
Jo...again, that is hardly the FBI's job. And these people could have a background as anything. They could be skydivers, but they could also be fishermen, accountants, gamblers, invetment bankers, street sweepers, short order chefs....
once again you're making leaps of logic that the rest of us find a bit hard to fathom. From commutation of sentence (most likely because he was a snitch) to skydiving?
You do not understand - that the James Earl Ray connection was on the table upon my finding out who Dan Cooper was. The FBI was even approached after the crime about it being involved with the MLK assinsation. Yet, this up and disappears. Then yrs later Duane confesses - and I find out about his connections to Ray...BUT, there is more than I have ever told the media - there are individuals out there including the FBI who know about this connection.
It was decided before I went public to stay quiet on the MLK connection, because it might hurt my credibility. At this stage of the game - let it rip.
After finding out about the Commutation - things start to fall into place because everything revolves around this time of his life - as John Collins. Most of my story has revolved around the 60's - the hidden yrs...and I am not making anything up - go talk to people I talked to in 1996 and they will tell you I was adamant about the MLK connection, but I didn't know to what extent - statements he made and the ex-wife made and her answers to some of my questions - I did not tell her were I was going - she volunteered the information.
They did NOT commute that sentence for snitching on an accomplice! THINK.
Ray was in the same prison - Duane and Ray were friends - the common law wives knew each other ---
Ray gets a call from Collins in Ca from Atl - documented....after "John" is released and before MLK is killed. None of that seems strange to you?
The files that would normally be with a commutation are NOT there. Duane gets frightened - enough to go buy a gun (a 38) in 1990 and reclaim the John Collins Id. WHY?
Now how does this connect to a 1971 hijacking? It does - because of what I know that I refuse to state in this forum - but there are those who are close to me and that know my story from the beginning - I have tried for 12 yrs to tell the FBI and now it seems that I was talking to a blank wall. Why is it BLANK.
Because that is the way they want it...be it the new FBI had other things to do or that the FILES are sealed. The FBI thought they could make me go away by ignoring me - and then with the tie DNA.
NOT one statement from any witness puts that tie and that clasp on Cooper because it wasn't on Cooper. Have YOU ever wondered why I ask questions of Ckret he should be able to answer and they are ignored?
There were other individuals involved in the theft that sent Duane to Jefferson - the FBI in 1971 received a call from Jefferson and they went to Jefferson but it was never stated who they interviewed and who made the claim that he knew who Cooper was. Too many connections to ignore.
CKRET: The name of the two other guys involved in the theft you can obtain, plus there was a fourth party the FBI didn't know anything about. All three guys protected one person...NOW Ckret just HOW did I know that? Maybe even you didn't know that. Was one of the guys who contacted the FBI in 1971 - one of the individuals involved in the Greene County incident? Or was one of the guys an experience jumper who worked with Duane? Was Cooper taking what he thought was owed to him or was it a more than that?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
QuoteThey did NOT commute that sentence for snitching on an accomplice!
You don't know that. You can't find the reason for commutation. You seem to think that's sinister; I don't find it odd that records are lost 40 years after the fact, especially from days when they were kept on paper.
QuoteRay was in the same prison - Duane and Ray were friends - the common law wives knew each other --- Ray gets a call from Collins in Ca from Atl - documented....after "John" is released and before MLK is killed. None of that seems strange to you?
Interesting coincidence. There have been many interesting coincidences in the history of the world. Some mean something, many others don't, and yet more are cunningly used to form the basis of a number of conspiracy theories going around the world. Someone calls someone just afer he is released from prison? Seems pretty normal to me. I bet there are many people who have called criminals about various things in advance of the crimes that were to be committed with no knowledge of them. That is all of course assuming you believe Ray was the assassin in the first place.... given all the "evidence" he wasn't (I am no expert and take no stand on whether he was or not)
Anyway, MLK's family has already taken the US government to court over the alleged conspiracy (it has been pointed out that the burden of proof is a lot less in civil case than a criminal one). It's hardly "secret". The story behind that is well documented. None of it mentioned a Weber or a Collins or a Cooper and the rifle is apparently at the bottom of the Mississippi.
As to what frightened Duane - who the heck knows? But does it make sense that he would then resuscitate an old ID that according to you was the same he had used and therefore would clearly identify him to, rather than hide him from, the people you claim he was so frightened of that he had to buy a gun? That makes no sense to me (just like committing a daring caper and then not bothering to go back and fetch the very large proceeds of it makes no sense to me).
I'm completely confused by your comment about the tie. The initial reports all had Cooper in a tie.
Believe me, you are not the only one who feels like you're hitting your head against a brick wall all the time.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
BillyVance 34
QuoteQuotebut who knows , maybe cooper deployed as he was standing on the step.
From a standing start to 200 mph?
If someone did that, it would separate all their vertebrae from each other by 8 inches.
Test it this way. Stand on the side of an interstate with a grappling hook. Attaching it to 20 ft of rope and then to a harness.
Lasso a truck passing by at 70mph.
I just got a video clip by email this morning showing a wind-surfer on the water. He had a surfboard that you stand on, and a long thin parachute to ride the winds. I don't know exactly what this sport is called, but it was particularly windy that day and he was getting some serious air time, and then while in mid-air, he gets snatched up in a hurry out of camera view, then the camera pans over to a jumbo jet on approach to the nearby airport, with the poor bastard's canopy hung up on the end of the wing with him holding on for dear life!!! I don't know what became of him but it can't be good.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
quade 3
Please send me that link for viewing.
Just by your description of the event I'd would say it's a fake, but would like to see for myself.
Just by your description of the event I'd would say it's a fake, but would like to see for myself.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
There seems to be a lot of, "...this one time, in band camp, my cousins friends neighbor may have said..."
I wouldn't expect any investigation of any information that vague. Also, I would not want one. It is a waste of time and resources. (I am sure that someone has seen Elvis working as a fry cook at Coopers restaurant.)
If the FBI decides (wisely) not to follow up on this type of info - good. People complain about wasting the tax dollar. Glad to see a line is drawn.
Any records of anything are incomplete after 15 years.
Most are retained for a legally defined limit and then tossed.
If records are incomplete,
or the investigation less rigorous than desired,
or the govt agency fails to agree with a person,
then "it is a coverup, what are they trying to hide?"
There is no reason to start a coverup.
There is no reason to pursue vague information.
I wouldn't expect any investigation of any information that vague. Also, I would not want one. It is a waste of time and resources. (I am sure that someone has seen Elvis working as a fry cook at Coopers restaurant.)
If the FBI decides (wisely) not to follow up on this type of info - good. People complain about wasting the tax dollar. Glad to see a line is drawn.
Any records of anything are incomplete after 15 years.
Most are retained for a legally defined limit and then tossed.
If records are incomplete,
or the investigation less rigorous than desired,
or the govt agency fails to agree with a person,
then "it is a coverup, what are they trying to hide?"
There is no reason to start a coverup.
There is no reason to pursue vague information.
Orange1 0
A google ssearch for windsurfer plane video yields many links that sound similar!! Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F21G3LjoYPs
one of the comments indicates it's a commercial.
btw Billy, the sport is called kite-surfing. It's very popular here, and it's a fantastic alternative sport for skydivers because you generally get the best kiting when the winds are too strong for jumping!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F21G3LjoYPs
one of the comments indicates it's a commercial.
btw Billy, the sport is called kite-surfing. It's very popular here, and it's a fantastic alternative sport for skydivers because you generally get the best kiting when the winds are too strong for jumping!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
ltdiver 3
QuoteA google ssearch for windsurfer plane video yields many links that sound similar!! Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F21G3LjoYPs
one of the comments indicates it's a commercial.
Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon
Orange1 0
QuoteIf records are incomplete,
or the investigation less rigorous than desired,
or the govt agency fails to agree with a person,
then "it is a coverup, what are they trying to hide?"
DB Cooper with Elvis, I like
Agreed 100% with your sentiments. That is the "beauty" of conspiracy theories after all - you don't actually need any evidence - because you use the lack of evidence as proof of a cover-up! (It's so mundane, after all, to conclude that lack of evidence is ... just lack of evidence, and probably means nothing happened.)
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
BillyVance 34
QuotePlease send me that link for viewing.
Just by your description of the event I'd would say it's a fake, but would like to see for myself.
I just posted it in the Bonfire called "Friends come and gooooo"
I'm not sure it's real. I don't think so, that's one hell of a hook. If he held on, figure on dislocating both shoulders at least...
Edited to add: oh it's a commercial? No wonder it was too good to be true...
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
quade 3
Well, pick ups -are- survivable if it's set up right (Robert Fulton's Skyhook and Operation Coldfeet), but the video you've shown is clearly not real.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
In Reply To
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lets put it like this, what forces do you feel more... are they on exit or are they at opening. Im trying to keep this simple. If you want to do an experiment safe,,,,evaluate if opening forces are more than deployment forces (leaving the plane).
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From a jet exit vs canopy opening? The jet exit, no question.
ltdiver
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I hope your reserve doesent open as slow as your 1000 ft opening on your main........ Cooper was under a reserve (pilots rig)...im not positive, but im sure rounds in the early 70s open kind of fast.
How do tunnel rats get in/out out of fast moving air so nicely?
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lets put it like this, what forces do you feel more... are they on exit or are they at opening. Im trying to keep this simple. If you want to do an experiment safe,,,,evaluate if opening forces are more than deployment forces (leaving the plane).
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From a jet exit vs canopy opening? The jet exit, no question.
ltdiver
..................
I hope your reserve doesent open as slow as your 1000 ft opening on your main........ Cooper was under a reserve (pilots rig)...im not positive, but im sure rounds in the early 70s open kind of fast.
How do tunnel rats get in/out out of fast moving air so nicely?
normiss 622
Canopus 0
Quote
.... That is the "beauty" of conspiracy theories after all - you don't actually need any evidence - because you use the lack of evidence as proof of a cover-up! ....
Well done! Sorry to admit that I may have to borrow this one at the water cooler. Unfortunately where I work there's just too much conspiracy involved in simply getting a drink.
Quote
Someone calls someone just afer he is released from prison? Seems pretty normal to me. I bet there are many people who have called criminals about various things in advance of the crimes that were to be committed with no knowledge of them.
You still don't get it, Ray was an escapee at the time of the call - So Duane knew where he was and this is within a week or two BEFORE King was shot.
Quotethe rifle is apparently at the bottom of the Mississippi.
I do NOT know your source. but the rifle was never in the Mississippi river as the FBI/CIA did testing on the rifle they found after King was killed...they were unable to prove the bullet came from that gun.
As for there not being any mention of Collins or Weber - you need to check the AL records and depositions done prior to the death of Ray - when Ray's attorney was trying to get him some clemency due to his illness and impending death.
Some where in my vast files I have a copy of this. I was able to obtain it after I spoke with the attorney for Jowers (the owner of the Grill who in the late 90's claimed that he arranged the murder of King). Jower died 2 months after I spoke with his attorney Garrison (forgot the last name). We will never know if Jowers' claim was real or for fame and fortune.
WHY doesn't the FBI make a very good detailed picture of the tie clasp available to public? Or are they going to wait until that too disappears?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
ltdiver 3
QuoteI hope your reserve doesent open as slow as your 1000 ft opening on your main........ Cooper was under a reserve (pilots rig)...im not positive, but im sure rounds in the early 70s open kind of fast.
Well, we weren't talking about Cooper in our exchange, now were we. You asked for personal experience (I believe).
Thankfully I've never had to use a round canopy (although my student rig had a round reserve which I had to receive training for in case I ever had to use it). And yes, I believe that rounds (and reserves) do open a bit quicker than my personally packed main.
). But that's getting off the 'Cooper Topic' again, isn't it.
ltdiver
Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon
quade 3
Jo --
Do you know what an FOIA request is?
Do you know what an FOIA request is?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
377 21
That jet snags windsurfer video is fake, but it sure looks cool. Ever see a video of the Fulton Recovery System tested on HC 130 USAF Rescue Hercs? They would snag nylon a line held aloft by a Helium balloon and attached to the harness of a guy standing on the ground. The rope stretches and the guy gets a soft launch almost straight up in the beginning then transitions into a towed-behind mode and is winched into the tailgate. Pretty amazing. Initial snatch force looks really mild.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
QuoteQuote
Someone calls someone just afer he is released from prison? Seems pretty normal to me. I bet there are many people who have called criminals about various things in advance of the crimes that were to be committed with no knowledge of them.
You still don't get it, Ray was an escapee at the time of the call - So Duane knew where he was and this is within a week or two BEFORE King was shot.Quotethe rifle is apparently at the bottom of the Mississippi.
I do NOT know your source. but the rifle was never in the Mississippi river as the FBI/CIA did testing on the rifle they found after King was killed...they were unable to prove the bullet came from that gun.
As for there not being any mention of Collins or Weber - you need to check the AL records and depositions done prior to the death of Ray - when Ray's attorney was trying to get him some clemency due to his illness and impending death.
Sigh.. Jo, so Duane knew where Ray was. So what? You said they were friends. Escaped prisoners presumably occasionally let their friends know where they are.
I've posted a link before to the MLK details including the details of the guy who claims he threw the rifle into the Mississippi. Yes, the rifle they had was inconclusive. That is what the conspiracists jumped on as proof that it wasn't the fatal rifle (which was in the Mississippi), and that it may not even have been Ray who fired the fatal shot. Either way it does not tie up with what you had previously implied - that Duane had the rifle that was used. (If you now say that this was not what you were implying then you need to go back and read your post again, the one about Duane getting all upset about a stolen rifle.)
All this is ridiculous anyway. Do you honestly think I can be bothered to go check depositions? If mention of Collins or Weber or whoever is in there then why are you going round and round on a skydiving website when you apparently have all the proof you need? (To connect Duane to MLK anyway - it takes you nowhere nearer to DB Cooper).
(and yes B, it does feel like a brick wall...)
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Orange1 0
QuoteHow do tunnel rats get in/out out of fast moving air so nicely?
That's not a serious question I presume - I've only got 2 hours tunnel time and even I can get in and out "so nicely". I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to exit a jet stable!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
ryoder 1,387
QuoteThat jet snags windsurfer video is fake, but it sure looks cool. Ever see a video of the Fulton Recovery System tested on HC 130 USAF Rescue Hercs? They would snag nylon a line held aloft by a Helium balloon and attached to the harness of a guy standing on the ground. The rope stretches and the guy gets a soft launch almost straight up in the beginning then transitions into a towed-behind mode and is winched into the tailgate. Pretty amazing. Initial snatch force looks really mild.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PErEsNhDmo8
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.
In Reply To
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How do tunnel rats get in/out out of fast moving air so nicely?
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That's not a serious question I presume - I've only got 2 hours tunnel time and even I can get in and out "so nicely". I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to exit a jet stable!
......................................
Never underestimate yourself.
NEVER underestimate the heart of a Champion!
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How do tunnel rats get in/out out of fast moving air so nicely?
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That's not a serious question I presume - I've only got 2 hours tunnel time and even I can get in and out "so nicely". I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to exit a jet stable!
......................................
Never underestimate yourself.
NEVER underestimate the heart of a Champion!
My 2 pennies. When you can't prove something, or don't have evidence, but you're trying to make a point, you do the best you can and always bring up the "sinister" whether related or not. It's called "float time"
and it's nothing new.
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